56K for first Superman and 83K for the reprint

[CentaurMan]

If Showcase-4 presented us a choice between the two books, I'd chose..... the Superman 1.

 

STEVE

 

OK...if comic characters can make a crossover appearance from one book to another, I will ask a crossover question from one thread to another.

 

We have the $56k restored Action 1, and the $83k unrestored Supes 1. Which one would you choose, and why???

 

Well, given that I spent a couple of hours going over the Action #1 scans like FFB on Ritalin, called for grading notes, and eventually was the underbidder, vs. looking at the Superman once and then hitting the back button on my browser, you know which one I'd choose.

[ciorac]

If Showcase-4 presented us a choice between the two books, I'd chose..... the Superman 1.

 

STEVE

 

OK...if comic characters can make a crossover appearance from one book to another, I will ask a crossover question from one thread to another.

 

We have the $56k restored Action 1, and the $83k unrestored Supes 1. Which one would you choose, and why???

 

Well, given that I spent a couple of hours going over the Action #1 scans like FFB on Ritalin, called for grading notes, and eventually was the underbidder, vs. looking at the Superman once and then hitting the back button on my browser, you know which one I'd choose.

 

That is one

[adamstrange]

Actually, I didn't know what "guide" was on the book, and I don't look at that piece of the auction description. I haven't bought a guide in like 7 years, and I don't where that copy is (probably in a box from my last move). Guide just screws me up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[showcase4]

Actually, I didn't know what "guide" was on the book, and I don't look at that piece of the auction description. I haven't bought a guide in like 7 years, and I don't where that copy is (probably in a box from my last move). Guide just screws me up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bluechip]

Also, there was a 3rd bidder exactly one increment below me on the Action #1 (I barely cleared him with my late bid), so I feel pretty comfortable with market value for a nice-but-heavily-restored Action #1 in the mid-$50,000's.

 

Quite honestly, that is where I figured the book would go all along. I don't track them the way that some of you do, but Action #1 has historically been a 50 - 55K book for me when restored.

 

I don't use the guide or GPA for Action 1 or Detective 27, just experience.

 

I believe you don't use it because neither do I. But I know other people do; they can't help but use it. When you go to bid on something and that absurd 39K figure is there (or in the case of tec 27 31K) most people cannot help but factor it in. And that is the biggest reason it's been in the 50K range restored. Look at how littrle difference there was in price realized between the 5.0 and the 7.5. It's because many people want the book to look nice but want it as cheaply as possible , partly for fear of having to resell at a loss. And those people will always be guided somewhat by the guide. What we're seeing lately, with people departing so much from the guide not just in higher grades but also in the lower grades, is the result of a guide that has ignored price increases so long that you needn';t be a savvy pro to realize it's completely off. And that doesn't bode well for the guide's longterm credibility

[ciorac]

Also, there was a 3rd bidder exactly one increment below me on the Action #1 (I barely cleared him with my late bid), so I feel pretty comfortable with market value for a nice-but-heavily-restored Action #1 in the mid-$50,000's.

 

Quite honestly, that is where I figured the book would go all along. I don't track them the way that some of you do, but Action #1 has historically been a 50 - 55K book for me when restored.

 

I don't use the guide or GPA for Action 1 or Detective 27, just experience.

 

I believe you don't use it because neither do I. But I know other people do; they can't help but use it. When you go to bid on something and that absurd 39K figure is there (or in the case of tec 27 31K) most people cannot help but factor it in. And that is the biggest reason it's been in the 50K range restored. Look at how littrle difference there was in price realized between the 5.0 and the 7.5. It's because many people want the book to look nice but want it as cheaply as possible , partly for fear of having to resell at a loss. And those people will always be guided somewhat by the guide. What we're seeing lately, with people departing so much from the guide not just in higher grades but also in the lower grades, is the result of a guide that has ignored price increases so long that you needn';t be a savvy pro to realize it's completely off. And that doesn't bode well for the guide's longterm credibility

 

Excellent point I hadn't considered. It made me go look at the guide. $39k huh? Fat chance of finding a nice 2.0 white off-white to white pages for that money. If you do, I am a buyer.

[CentaurMan]

Also, there was a 3rd bidder exactly one increment below me on the Action #1 (I barely cleared him with my late bid), so I feel pretty comfortable with market value for a nice-but-heavily-restored Action #1 in the mid-$50,000's.

 

Quite honestly, that is where I figured the book would go all along. I don't track them the way that some of you do, but Action #1 has historically been a 50 - 55K book for me when restored.

 

I don't use the guide or GPA for Action 1 or Detective 27, just experience.

 

I believe you don't use it because neither do I. But I know other people do; they can't help but use it. When you go to bid on something and that absurd 39K figure is there (or in the case of tec 27 31K) most people cannot help but factor it in. And that is the biggest reason it's been in the 50K range restored. Look at how littrle difference there was in price realized between the 5.0 and the 7.5. It's because many people want the book to look nice but want it as cheaply as possible , partly for fear of having to resell at a loss. And those people will always be guided somewhat by the guide. What we're seeing lately, with people departing so much from the guide not just in higher grades but also in the lower grades, is the result of a guide that has ignored price increases so long that you needn';t be a savvy pro to realize it's completely off. And that doesn't bode well for the guide's longterm credibility

 

I agree with all of that, especially the conclusion. With so many other pricing sources available (esp. Heritage's increasingly growing archives, as well as Metro's extensive inventory list and other dealer sites, plus resources like GPA and Nostomania), it's getting easier and easier to price-check even obscure titles without need for a guide. It's also getting more and more unforgivable for the guide to be as far off as it is on some books, given the plethora of readily-available market data.

[action1kid]

I agree that the Superman 5.0 cover alone is not a 5.0 with the spine damage so visible.Remember we are talking V.G/ Fine here. I dont think the word fine should apply anywhere on that cover ALONE. \ The book in its whole on the other hand may indeed be a V.G /Fine if the back cover is immaculate. I havnt seen it but thats what it would take for me to call it a 5.0 to compensate for the lack of quality on the front cover.Of course nice supple pages would help support the grade too.

[tth2]

I do not agree. There was no question in my mind that a 5.0 unrestored Superman #1 is worth consideribly more than a restored Action #1.No question at all.I can honestly say that 83k is exactly where I would expect a 5.0 Superman #1 to fall in, This figure is supported in my mind by the 5.5 esquirer sale for 130k and an unreported 6.5 unrestored sale for 125k. The 7.5 sale 3 years ago at 275k [3 years] ago also supports this .I admit the book has an ugly spine but it got a 5.0 because the rest of the book is so nice[pedigree status helps too, but 83k is the books fair market value in my mind with no question.

 

The Action 1 at 56k is more than i thought and does relect at least an improvement

unrestored prices.But no way is it worth as much as the Sup #1 !

Well said, Peter. You are our market maven when it comes to Action 1/Superman 1.

[tth2]

But does it make sense for a service to pride itself on evaluating books and charge for it, then put it in a slab so nothing can happen after they've done their thorough screaning

Uh... I think that's pretty much EXACTLY CGC's business model. Based on market reception to this business model, including the fact that we're all here on chat boards sponsored by CGC discussing a couple of slabbed books, I'd say the business model definitely makes sense!

[1962]

83K for a 5.0 superman 1. Sorry to stop the superman love fest that has been going on these boards, but this nuts. Come on it is a reprint except for two pages.. This book in my opinion is the most over overvalued book ever, considering what it contains and the value it commands at this time.

[Aman619]

cmon... Superman may be reprints of Action 1, 2 and 3, but its also the first issue of a title that has been printed nonstop for just shy of 70 years! And its scarce in unrestored mid and high grade. So all in all, reprint notwithstanding, Superman maintains a hefty value for its importance and not content. Also, add up Action 1, 2 and 3 and compute a relative value for Supe 1 if you want. Pretty cheap when you look at it that way. Course in a slab, the pages could be blank!

[bluechip]

But does it make sense for a service to pride itself on evaluating books and charge for it, then put it in a slab so nothing can happen after they've done their thorough screaning

Uh... I think that's pretty much EXACTLY CGC's business model. Based on market reception to this business model, including the fact that we're all here on chat boards sponsored by CGC discussing a couple of slabbed books, I'd say the business model definitely makes sense!

 

There shold be amissing the point icon.

 

Of course the business model is working in that they're making money off it. But that was not the point.

 

The poiint is that the customer looking at a slabbed restored book in this case is not being served by the amount of information provide. And the customer who paid to have the book slabbed in the first place may have actually spent money to have the book devalued with bad information that ioncorrectly puts it on the same level as a book that's had major portions of art recreated.

 

Re: Sponsored by CGC -- i see they are one of the destinations on this, but presumed that was a deal they made with board creators to help bring business to them. Are you saying they formed the board itself? Or that they provide funds for it? Even if so I wojldn't feel obligated to say only good things about them and ignore anything trouibling. When an operation is successful, it means they good effects are magnified but it also means that any troubling aspects are even more troubling because they too are magnified.

[Theagenes]

It may be a minor point for most people, but Superman #1 is also significant as being the first time a comic book character was thought to be popular enough to carry a book all on his own. A few newspaper strip characters, like Skippy, Popeye, Tracy, Lil' Orphan Annie, etc. had been given their own books by this point, but their popularity and ability to sell books was well established. In many ways Superman #1 was a bit of a gamble and to me marks the point where original comic book material really began to come into it's own, rather than just being seen as shlock that wasn't good enough to get in the newspaper. OR maybe I'm just reading too much into all this.

[showcase4]

The point is that the customer looking at a slabbed restored book in this case is not being served by the amount of information provide.

 

Bob,

we have been back and forth on this issue before.....you and I. I disagree and think this is unfair to CGC.....they can't slow down their production line like business to write up a multi-faceted, extremely detailed, as much info as humanly possible summary so the consumer can have a 100% crystal clear picture of exactly what has been done to a book down to the atomic level. Furthermore, I don't see a public outcry due to market consideration that calls for a 1" piece replacement to be noted due to a sharp drop in appeal or value if there is a 2" piece replacement instead....our marketplace is not that anal ( yet ) where 1" is Ok and 2" isn't....I just don't see it. Can you imagine seeing an Action 1 come up for sale, and a potential serious buyer says to himself "what a shame...I was ready to bid $45k on that book, but it has a 2" tear seal......if it was only a 1.25" tear seal I would have gone for it"

 

Just like you, I want as much information as possible ... but I don't think CGC has a responsibilty to provide more than they are presently offering. Their purple labels are great, their slight, moderate and extensive designations are great, and their single line summary of work performed is fine for me.......I get the picture every time I read their labels. They are a 3rd party grading service....not a room full of scientists who have to turn in a report that gets read to Congress so tough decisions can be made about global warming.

[adamstrange]

 

Re: Sponsored by CGC -- i see they are one of the destinations on this, but presumed that was a deal they made with board creators to help bring business to them. Are you saying they formed the board itself? Or that they provide funds for it?

 

The boards that we are on were created by and are operated by CGC and/or it's parent company.

[action1kid]

83K for a 5.0 superman 1. Sorry to stop the superman love fest that has been going on these boards, but this nuts. Come on it is a reprint except for two pages.. This book in my opinion is the most over overvalued book ever, considering what it contains and the value it commands at this time.

 

1962. By any chance are you a Spiderman fan?

[ciorac]

The point is that the customer looking at a slabbed restored book in this case is not being served by the amount of information provide.

 

Bob,

we have been back and forth on this issue before.....you and I. I disagree and think this is unfair to CGC.....they can't slow down their production line like business to write up a multi-faceted, extremely detailed, as much info as humanly possible summary so the consumer can have a 100% crystal clear picture of exactly what has been done to a book down to the atomic level. Furthermore, I don't see a public outcry due to market consideration that calls for a 1" piece replacement to be noted due to a sharp drop in appeal or value if there is a 2" piece replacement instead....our marketplace is not that anal ( yet ) where 1" is Ok and 2" isn't....I just don't see it. Can you imagine seeing an Action 1 come up for sale, and a potential serious buyer says to himself "what a shame...I was ready to bid $45k on that book, but it has a 2" tear seal......if it was only a 1.25" tear seal I would have gone for it"

 

Just like you, I want as much information as possible ... but I don't think CGC has a responsibilty to provide more than they are presently offering. Their purple labels are great, their slight, moderate and extensive designations are great, and their single line summary of work performed is fine for me.......I get the picture every time I read their labels. They are a 3rd party grading service....not a room full of scientists who have to turn in a report that gets read to Congress so tough decisions can be made about global warming.

 

I agree with most of what you said above Steve. My only bone of contention with the current restortion scale is that is it is to broad. CGC is addressing that so my hat goes off to them for it.

 

My annual gathering of comic geeks of some renown is coming up soon and we are going to debate what the resto scale should be. We'll submit it to CGC and see if they like it. We don't want to make it overly complex for them either, as that would be impractical.

 

However, as stated earlier by someone in this thread, and I paraphrase, a book with a dime sized piece replaced on the back cover (even when using vintage paper) along with some other small resto techniques gets the same extensive resto label a book with a re-created masthead gets. That is a disservice to the book and its potential owner.

 

In my opinion, keeping the three level resto scale is a non-option, an anitquated dunsel at best. Therefore I am pleased it is being addressed. I think it demonstrates that CGC is staying in tune with the market and adjusts their policies and procedures to stay as much in alignment as is economically feasible.

 

Kudos to them for that.

[1962]

Nope, not a spidey fan. I just think Supe 1 considering what it contains is highly overvalued, but heck everyone is entitled to have their own opinion and spend their money how they please. Because of some of the crazy money being spent recently though I hope the prices are not being propped up solely because of another JP in the house.

[action1kid]

The prices paid for Superman #1 that I mentioned above were all paid by different people. The prices being paid for higher grade Superman # 1s has a solid fondation under it and there are a wealth of facts to support it. The facts simply dont support your individual opinion in regard to public and even private sales of Superman # 1.