Why people squirrel away comic art and do not display it

[nkatradis]

It always bewilders me why people buy original comic art and then put it away in a drawer and nobody ever sees it again. very perplexing.

 

Just think how more rewarding to all of us this hobby would be if some of the pioneer collectors/dealers would showcase all their art on a website or comicartfans gallery (which is free).

 

My hat goes off to guys like Stephen Fishler and others like him that showcase every page of their enormous collections on their own website as well as a comicartfans gallery.

 

nick

[vodou]

Reasons Nick? Here's a few:

 

1. Privacy

2. Security

3. Value (see KK, Mitch, Ruben Azcona for the "been off the market for years" market approach)

4. Weird dealer/collector attitudes

 

For the first two, would you post your bank or brokerage statements online for public viewing? Probably not. If one's collection is more than just a stack of cool funnypages but actually a (major?) component of one's net worth that person would be just as careful about sharing with the entire online world specific details of their financial position in original art. Or stocks and bonds.

 

The third is easy, some dealers have publicly stated their lack of interest in acquiring "shopped" or "burned" art. Any collector that wants to make the most of their portfolio (pun intended) will likely not show certain/many/all pieces online and risk overexposure and loss of market players.

 

Fourth, some folks really will hold stuff hostage for "it's only available if you trade x to me". Others seeing that you already have a strong "position" in an artist/title/genre will be jealous or otherwise childish in dealing or not dealing with that collector. I can easily see some collectors thinking "jjeanius has ENOUGH James Jean art"...what does that mean? It means they may not sell JJ art to him at all or only for inflated prices.

 

Who wants to deal with all that cr*p??? Some don't care, but for those that do their collections may not be online or only the lower-end stuff.

 

I'm betting somebody will pipe up in response that this all speaks to "original art as an investment and how lousy is that?" Let's get real folks - con sketches for $25 aren't a big deal, but a collection of 100 sketches is a $2500 "investment", how much more so would that apply to 100 Adam Hughes sketches or 100 Bronze Age Marvel/DC covers? I'm a modest collector (compared to the top tier spenders/collectors) and a tally of what I've SPENT on art since 1998 could buy me a very nice new house in Texas (should I ever leave ey overpriced Massachusetts). I could've simply saved that cash and put it in a CD, money market or any other "investment" instrument. No fun there but that's opportunity cost for you!

 

Extrapolate that "spent" amount to CURRENT MARKET VALUE and we're talking a horse ranch with significant acreage in Texas and early retirement. Yeah that means I wouldn't ever have to kiss any bosses @ss again!! How much is that worth?! How can I not view my art collection as part of my net worth? That makes it an investment and a somewhat illiquid one as well (barring fire-sale), so even more value care/monitoring is needed than other "investments". I'm not going to put that TX horse ranch (privacy, security, value) or my ability to add to my holdings at fair cost (weird dealers/collectors) at risk just to "wow" some folks online.

 

Not only that but I don't need to have the best online art collection, drive a Ferrari, or use any other method of publicly "swinging my d*ck" to get attention. Sure I like looking at other people's stuff and like it when people appreciate what I put up publicly but that's about it. Don't need to see every top-tier piece in everybody's collection. I know that almost everything from the last 47 years is out there and can depend on Heritage/Mastro/All-Star/Lowery/et al to unearth and publicly offer the rest.

[batman_fan]

I myself do not show my artwork very much. The reason is quite simple, my scanner isn't big enough and my time is limited to scan it all in.

[lmiller]

i gotta agree with aelhra. on a few of his points. my self i have a very small scanner and really don,t know how to use it yet i don,t have a problem showing my art work. but iam pretty sure thay are a few collectors won,t show certain art cause it may be stolen which is pretty sure why some art are keeped on a very low profile

 

, as far as art losing it value if its seen. thats bull. if anything it would increase the value . cause more collectors will see it and and get into a bidding war.

 

the security thing is a real concern. iam pretty sure all of us don,t live in bomb proof houses. about 20 years ago i had my home broke in. the crooks stole my tv. vcr stereo speakers. records. they even took my phone i had to walk next door to use the phone to call the cops. i had all my comic art on the wall framed. whick was worth more than anything in my home. was left intact not even thouched.

 

thank god for dumb criminals..

 

larry ;]

[aardvark88]

I believe in the shock and awe theory of not publicly showing your original comic art til it is time to eBay or consign to cLink. Collectors dream about getting 1st crack at fresh to the market original art (e.g. hidden for at least 20 yrs) and will have to examine their lines of credit at the bank to snipe at the end.

[dem1138]

There is a corollary to this and that is that a certain minority of OA could be openly displayed and it wouldn't diminish the value one bit. Bill Woo's Incredible Hulk #340 comes to mind as a piece of art that I could look at every single day and it wouldn't diminish how much I would pay one penny if he ever offered it for sale.

 

I think a lot of the OA that Nick has on his CAF page wouldn't lose any value because it's displayed.

 

I think there also needs to be a distinction made between being displayed and losing its 'Wow Factor' and being offered around and losing its value.

 

Dan Forman gave a good example on his ASM 155 cover and I could say the same for the FF 264 cover that I used to own. Each is an example of a piece of OA that - were it to surface after many years - would command top dollar - but because they were shopped around several times over the course of a year and so many people had passed on it - the piece DEFINITELY lost value. Hence the thinking that the next buyer would need to hide the piece for a few years and then bring it out to get top dollar for it.

[Mister Trent]

There is a corollary to this and that is that a certain minority of OA could be openly displayed and it wouldn't diminish the value one bit. Bill Woo's Incredible Hulk #340 comes to mind as a piece of art that I could look at every single day and it wouldn't diminish how much I would pay one penny if he ever offered it for sale.

 

I think a lot of the OA that Nick has on his CAF page wouldn't lose any value because it's displayed.

 

I think there also needs to be a distinction made between being displayed and losing its 'Wow Factor' and being offered around and losing its value.

 

Dan Forman gave a good example on his ASM 155 cover and I could say the same for the FF 264 cover that I used to own. Each is an example of a piece of OA that - were it to surface after many years - would command top dollar - but because they were shopped around several times over the course of a year and so many people had passed on it - the piece DEFINITELY lost value. Hence the thinking that the next buyer would need to hide the piece for a few years and then bring it out to get top dollar for it.

 

Last year, a grail-like item came up for sale, and I knew I had to pull out all stops to acquire the art (which was high-end, to the tune of $27,500, but well-below comparable recent sales). This was Wally Wood's cover art to WEIRD SCIENCE # 18. I'd been collecting EC art for many years, but missed out on the Woody Science-Fiction covers first time round (just out my reach). As prices were rapidly spiralling ever-upwards, this was likely to be my last opportunity . . .

 

Albert Moy, who owned the Woody cover, was very flexible in my talks with him and agreed to allow me some leeway to try to put a deal together (putting the art on hold for me).

 

To help raise funds, I looked towards selling some art from my collection.

 

A collector friend had asked me to give him first-refusal on my Russ Heath STAR SPANGLED WAR STORIES # 137 cover (by all accounts, the only surviving 'Dinosaur' cover from this memorable DC War series). The cover had originated from Mike Burkey at a purchase price of $9,500.

 

Due to bad timing, my friend was not in a position to buy the cover from me, but gave his blessing that I should offer it out to the general public.

 

I'd also been asked to alert a few more collectors - should the time ever come for me to sell the Heath cover. This I did, along with approaching a few others (whom I considered potential would-be buyers) - along with an announcement of the cover's availability on (the relevant sections) of these forums.

 

To my surprise, one of the collectors who had (previously) expressed an interest in the Heath cover, contacted me saying (to the effect) that because I had not offered the cover to him exclusively, this somehow had affected his interest in an adverse way.

 

This resulted in a lesser offer than my asking price.

 

Similarly, a few other collectors I had approached had made me lesser offers. As my cover had cost $9,500 several years ago, I figured $10,000 would be a more than fair asking price (allowing for appreciation and inflation).

 

Average (lesser) offers came in at around $8,000.

 

Perhaps would-be buyers considered me 'desparate' to make a quick sale that would work to their advantage (by way of a lesser offer)? I don't know . . . but I would never want to be out of pocket (to the tune of $2,000) and sell anything at a loss.

 

Happily, I managed to raise funds elsewhere, and the need to sell my Heath cover (which would have been a very reluctant sale) never came about.

 

So, it stays put in my collection, and hopefully the need to re-sell will never crop-up again!

 

The business of artwork that somehow manages to get a 'tainted' reputation due to over-exposure, etc., is a curious phenomenon. For myself, if something is available for sale (at FMV) that I very much like, I'll go for it . . .

 

Moral of story?

 

He who hesitates is lost.

[Kevin76]

Bechara is another one who won't show his artwork..least not the REAL good stuff..It's all locked away in his cousins jeweler's safe,never to be looked at or talked about ever again.

[sborock]

Bechara is another one who won't show his artwork..least not the REAL good stuff..It's all locked away in his cousins jeweler's safe,never to be looked at or talked about ever again.

 

I have seen a lot of it. Maybe he likes me better?

 

Amazing stuff!

[malvin]

Reasons Nick? Here's a few:

<snip>

 

The third is easy, some dealers have publicly stated their lack of interest in acquiring "shopped" or "burned" art. Any collector that wants to make the most of their portfolio (pun intended) will likely not show certain/many/all pieces online and risk overexposure and loss of market players.

<snip>

 

I'm still wondering about the point this brings up. I hate to say it, but I might agree.

 

Its probably been discussed here before, but for "average" pieces. If they were on DISPLAY (not sale) on CAF and it was one day placed on ebay, would taht fetch a lower price than if it suddently appeared on ebay and was therefore "fresh"?

 

Malvin

[dem1138]

Reasons Nick? Here's a few:

<snip>

 

The third is easy, some dealers have publicly stated their lack of interest in acquiring "shopped" or "burned" art. Any collector that wants to make the most of their portfolio (pun intended) will likely not show certain/many/all pieces online and risk overexposure and loss of market players.

<snip>

 

I'm still wondering about the point this brings up. I hate to say it, but I might agree.

 

Its probably been discussed here before, but for "average" pieces. If they were on DISPLAY (not sale) on CAF and it was one day placed on ebay, would taht fetch a lower price than if it suddently appeared on ebay and was therefore "fresh"?

 

Malvin

 

 

Probably not - and the reason is is that only a few hundred people see your art on CAF but thousands of people see it on eBay.

 

I shopped a piece here and on CAF and got no interest - then put it on eBay and found an international buyer who I never would have encountered on these boards or on CAF

 

I have found that eBay is an EXCELLENT way to get top dollar and exposure and find buyers you would never know about just using the resources of these boards and CAF -- that goes for comics as well.

[Kevin76]

Bechara is another one who won't show his artwork..least not the REAL good stuff..It's all locked away in his cousins jeweler's safe,never to be looked at or talked about ever again.

 

I have seen a lot of it. Maybe he likes me better?

 

Amazing stuff!

 

I wouldn't doubt it..your grading his books

[sborock]

Bechara is another one who won't show his artwork..least not the REAL good stuff..It's all locked away in his cousins jeweler's safe,never to be looked at or talked about ever again.

 

I have seen a lot of it. Maybe he likes me better?

 

Amazing stuff!

 

I wouldn't doubt it..your grading his books

 

I saw the collection at times BEFORE CGC

[Kevin76]

Bechara is another one who won't show his artwork..least not the REAL good stuff..It's all locked away in his cousins jeweler's safe,never to be looked at or talked about ever again.

 

I have seen a lot of it. Maybe he likes me better?

 

Amazing stuff!

 

I wouldn't doubt it..your grading his books

 

I saw the collection at times BEFORE CGC

 

After "show you his collection" did he tell you not to tell anyone what he has?

[sborock]

[Ares]

is seeing "his collection" some code word for brokeback mountain?

[tth2]

The third is easy, some dealers have publicly stated their lack of interest in acquiring "shopped" or "burned" art. Any collector that wants to make the most of their portfolio (pun intended) will likely not show certain/many/all pieces online and risk overexposure and loss of market players.

Interesting that the OA market equates "displaying" with "shopping around" or "being put on the market". If someone displays their art but makes it clear that they have no intention of selling, does that still result in loss of value for their pieces? I find this mind-set to be totally bizarre.

 

How about Eric Roberts? He's got some fantastic pieces displayed for the world to see on his website, but there's no indication that any are available for sale. Has the value of his pieces declined as a result of this "over exposure"?

[topofthetotem]

I bought one of those A3 Mustek scanners they can fit full pages of OA.

The seller has tons of them for around $200.00. linky

[Sharkey]

No scanner? Excuses, excuses!

 

Seriously, a scanner is NOT necessary to display a piece of art online. If you have a marginally decent digital camera and take a semi-high resolution picture (ie, 1 MB or larger) you can save it as a jpeg in lower resolution and have a nice image for posting online. You just have to position the camera at a slight angle so you don't get a big glare spot in the middle of the picture from the flash. Or turn the flash off and use good abient light.

 

All of the images in my CAF gallery (except 8.5 x 11 sketchbook sketches) are from camera pics, not scans.

 

So that "I don't have a scanner" excuse holds no water whatsoever! Snap some pics and get that art up!

 

[nkatradis]

hi, a lot of very good points made by all the guys,

 

now lets get a guy like Mike Burkey to post all his Romita ASM art. he probably owns 75%- 80% of the romita spidey art on the planet.

 

whoever know Mike really well, go over there and bend his arm behind his back and get him to start scanning.

 

also, lets get Anthony Snyder to post all of his collection. Tony lives near me in NJ and im trying to get him to post more of his art for all to see.

 

someone also mentioned Bechara, who i had the pleasure recently of talking to over the phone; he is a genuine nice guy and probably as knowledgeable about our hobby as anyone else in it.

 

I also know David Bandier, who is the nicest guy i "never" met; i "talk to him" online very frequently and one of these days i will meet him.

 

anyway, if there is some collector of OA that you know that does not post it, try to convince them to display their art. its the best thing to do.

 

that is the only way our hobby may one day go mainstream!!

 

(hey, we can all hope and dream!)

 

thanks

nick