How do you feel about blue labels with "minor color touch" ??

[nearmint]

Bueller?

[ciorac]

Huh. I was under the impression the purpose of the PLOD was meant to separate restored books form the population of unrestored books, much as the yellow label seeks to legitimize autographs that otherwise get marked down half a notch as "writing on the cover". I believe it has succeeded in that function. How that effects the market is up to the market participants.

 

Are you implying that the purpose of the purple label was simply to drive prices down on restored books? I somehow doubt that. As an unforeseen consequence I can see lower prices for restored books making it xmas in july for some collectors and hell for others.

 

The best part about the purple label is I don't have to ask for certain books to be pulled off a dealer's top shelf at a show. I can see it's restored at a glance without having to read through a bunch of tiny print on a label. I think it's deceptive that some books carry "minor glue" or "slight color touch" on a blue label at all since that's restoration.

 

I agree with Agro 100%. Very well put. Now, once they adopt the wider restoration scale, (soon I hope), all will be well in my opinion.

[tth2]

Second, you seem to continue to conveniently forget about the "intent" part of the equation. How in the world could you expect me to hold every kid who folded back the cover as he read his favorite comic in the same disdain that I hold an otherwise sophisticated collector who out of some misplaced desire for perfection on the cheap decides to restore a comic to make it look better than it really is?

 

Mint snob. Tell that junk to Jon Berk, Bob Overstreet, and everyone else who has ever bought a restored book they loved or had a book restored.

Not saying it wasn't done in the past by many upstanding members of the community. But values change, and what used to be acceptable might not be so acceptable a generation or two later.

[tth2]

This is addressed to everyone...

Does anyone agree with bluechip that the PLOD was created as a concerted effort to decrease the value of restored books? If so, please stand up and be counted.

I think when CGC began, they had no idea how much prices would be driven up by blue labels and how much prices would be driven down by purple and green labels.

[bluechip]

And I just can't take anybody seriously when they say that's necessary but they won't get behind putting real details on restored labels about how much work was done.

Admittedly I came late to the thread, but who's saying that? I think all of the restoration work should disclosed on a label that indicates restoration.I prefer unrestored books because unless you have the paperwork, you don't know the quality of the work. Maybe they should add the restorer's name like a pedigree to the label! As to prices, I only care if I can afford a book or not.

truth is there would be very little time lost by doing away with the purple label and replacing it with an indication on the label that the book is restored. In the past, prior to CGC, books did just fine when they were graded and there was a simple "R" next to the grade.

Right and then I hand it back to the dealer and go "Oh.It's restored. Sorry I had you grab it since I can't read the tiny print from ten feet away." Time is lost, mine and the dealer's. I don't know what shows you've been going to for the last however many years but for me, since I shop and browse the dealers can get annoyed easily when I want to see too many books up close.

then you're already in danger of wasting your time whenever you ask for a blue label book.

Only because the CGC isn't following it's own policies closely enough when segregating restored from unrestored books.

(I must say I have a hard time thinking that every decision about how to label a book should be based on the looking at a convention rack from 10 feet away principle

I would venture that people worried about racking product at a show may have a different opinion.

If all books had MORE information on the label -- restored and unrestored -- then everybody would save a lot of time, wondering whether something was hidden, or why it looks like a fine but is graded VG (or vice versa) or whether that Action 1 "extensive restored" note means it has a totally rebuilt spine and huge pieces added, or just a lot of litle tear seals.

Agreed 100%.

 

If I were to set up a service to label books I could easily suggest lots of things, including suggested label colors which would make it easier for me. But if the result were generally that I had selected out the sort of books I do not collect for special labels which people then generally was a virtual "scarlet letter" designed to make the book a pariah,I think you'd see the same situation as you see here.

 

People who share my tastes would applaud how I had made some books affordable by ascribing a stain of undesirability to them. And people who had books like mine would applaud how benefits accrued to my books.

 

I have seen slabbed books at shows that are repros, reprints, Franklin mint style "special editions," books whose existing copies number in the millions, etc. -- all things that would be very helpful to have separated out by special colors i the purpose is/was to help the collector avoid books that are not worth as much as they might appear to be.

 

You can disagree on whether it likely was or was not the intent to create a "scarlet letter" label, the fact is that judging from these boards, many people on these boards feel it was -- including anti-resto people who like it that way. Some say it just wan's the intent to create that effect, or to have labels that give so little information that it's hard to tell a book with structural repair from one that is partially counterfeit. Well if so then it's something that should be corrected. Because as many point out the slight color touch or dot of glue blue label has muddied the waters even more.

 

If it's not a "scarlet letter" to put a book in a purple label then why put a book with slight color touch in a blue label?? Why not put evetrything in a purple label that has the slightest piosubility of having been touched? Indications are it's because there are too many people who like having other people's books in purple labels but don't like havingt their own in purple labels. So they push for standards they can shift in their favor, getting their books treated differently, or even buying somethign in a purple label to resub it and get a blue label.

 

It only makes the saituation more rife with the potential for abuse. And it's only going to get worse. It all stems from a notion that was, at best, flawed and misguided, from the outset, because it played too much into emotions and not enough into facts. And because it left way too much to interpretation and prognostication as to what somebody was or was not thinking when a defect occured as opposed to what the defect simply is. And that is why you have the bizarre situation of some altered books in restored labeles and some not. It's a mess now because it was an idea bound at the outset to lead to a mess.

[The Black Hand ®]

I don;t really mind the color touches on the blue labels all that much....it's when they do it on the comics that it bothers me.

[nearmint]

This is addressed to everyone...

Does anyone agree with bluechip that the PLOD was created as a concerted effort to decrease the value of restored books? If so, please stand up and be counted.

I think when CGC began, they had no idea how much prices would be driven up by blue labels and how much prices would be driven down by purple and green labels.

 

I feel the same way.

[bluechip]

I don;t really mind the color touches on the blue labels all that much....it's when they do it on the comics that it bothers me.

 

Funny.

 

[bluechip]

This is addressed to everyone...

Does anyone agree with bluechip that the PLOD was created as a concerted effort to decrease the value of restored books? If so, please stand up and be counted.

I think when CGC began, they had no idea how much prices would be driven up by blue labels and how much prices would be driven down by purple and green labels.

 

I feel the same way.

 

 

Obviously, there's no way to know what CGC was thinking.

 

Just as there's no way to know what somebody was thinking when they flattened out a bend in a book 20 years ago, or when the dropped or placed?) a dot of glue on it.

 

If you're suggesting we should deal with whatever consequences have arisen from the PLODs without regard to what somebody was thinking when they were created, then I would agree.

.

I think it would be a good start if CGC would not attempt mind-reading when they see a defect and simply note it as a defect. It's a dot of glue or a color touch and it's up to the buyer whether he knows -- or cares -- what the person was thinking

[tth2]

I think it would be a good start if CGC would not attempt mind-reading when they see a defect and simply note it as a defect. It's a dot of glue or a color touch and it's up to the buyer whether he knows -- or cares -- what the person was thinking

So now you're advocating getting rid of the "restored" designation altogether, whether on a purple or blue label, and simply giving universal grades but putting comments on the label to the effect of "spine split sealed, pieces added, etc."?

[agro23]

If it's not a "scarlet letter" to put a book in a purple label then why put a book with slight color touch in a blue label?? Why not put evetrything in a purple label that has the slightest piosubility of having been touched?

Exactly! All restoration, for whatever reason, however slight, should be disclosed. The book is not original. I go further and say resto should be divided into conservation and restoration categories as the latter thing, such as pieces added, only serves to make the book look better not to preserve it for the future. But the label should still indicate that it's different than an original because a pristine untouched 9.0 is not the same as a frankenbook that was made 9.0. Purple all the way. But if some kid spilled Elmers glue on a stack of books in 1946 that doesn't mean some dealer was trying to glue the spine in 1984. That's a blue defect. And that's where the grader needs to judge carefully.

Indications are it's because there are too many people who like having other people's books in purple labels but don't like havingt their own in purple labels. So they push for standards they can shift in their favor, getting their books treated differently, or even buying somethign in a purple label to resub it and get a blue label.

Where are these indications coming from???

[CentaurMan]

I'm having trouble slogging through this thread. Did someone mention Obidiah yet?

 

P.S.: FFB is right.

[bluechip]

Indications are it's because there are too many people who like having other people's books in purple labels but don't like havingt their own in purple labels. So they push for standards they can shift in their favor, getting their books treated differently, or even buying somethign in a purple label to resub it and get a blue label.

Where are these indications coming from???

 

From people who have been posting on this thread.

[bluechip]

I think it would be a good start if CGC would not attempt mind-reading when they see a defect and simply note it as a defect. It's a dot of glue or a color touch and it's up to the buyer whether he knows -- or cares -- what the person was thinking

So now you're advocating getting rid of the "restored" designation altogether, whether on a purple or blue label, and simply giving universal grades but putting comments on the label to the effect of "spine split sealed, pieces added, etc."?

 

No, I am not advocating that.

 

But in truth I can imagine even that might be less loaded and fraught with problems than what we have now -- with people arguing over what's restored and what isn't, what was something thinking when that glue was put there. Should it be blue or purple, etc.

 

If the purpose of disclosure is information, then all the details shoudl be provided. Right down to whether is was pressed or cleaned. And even if there is a designation called "restored" I would still like to see all the information about what made it that way. Which pieced replaced, what did it look like before. Were pages reinforced, the whole thing. And frankly, if I have all that, I don't need anybody to tell me that it all adds to a book being restored.

 

It seems like so much of what people argue about in this issue is not even about what should be disclosed but about what name we should put on it.

 

Glue is glue and color touch is color touch, and the name or label you put on it doesn't change what it is.

[agro23]

If the purpose of disclosure is information, then all the details shoudl be provided. Right down to whether is was pressed or cleaned. And even if there is a designation called "restored" I would still like to see all the information about what made it that way. Which pieced replaced, what did it look like before. Were pages reinforced, the whole thing.

Shoot. Why not go all the way and have the restoration people keep record numbers and provide them in certs to CGC? They can be pedigreed resto. Make them, I don't know, beige. Everything else can be "unregistered restoration" and stay purple.

[bluechip]

If the purpose of disclosure is information, then all the details shoudl be provided. Right down to whether is was pressed or cleaned. And even if there is a designation called "restored" I would still like to see all the information about what made it that way. Which pieced replaced, what did it look like before. Were pages reinforced, the whole thing.

Shoot. Why not go all the way and have the restoration people keep record numbers and provide them in certs to CGC? They can be pedigreed resto. Make them, I don't know, beige. Everything else can be "unregistered restoration" and stay purple.

 

I think it would be a great idea for CGC or somebody to keep and monitor records about what was done to a book. Hell, whaddaya think they do with collectible cars, and paintings, all kinds of things? When you're dealing with an object worth tens of thousands of dollars, the buyer should want as much info as possinle, and the seller should be willing to provide it.

 

As for the aforementioned thought of simply doing away with calling a book restored or not, the reason for even entertaining that notion is that it's clear people cannot agree and are not likely ever to agree on what earns a book that name.

 

But you put ALL the info down and you don't need a name.

 

And, as for the label itself, what if CGC simply graded a book by its technical flaws -- meaning a restored book would end up with the same grade it would've earned before it was restored (ore repaired, or whatever).

 

Take the scenario of the convention rack that's come up so often. Well, if you saw a very nice looking copy of superman 1 on the rack but the big *spoon* number on the label said it was a 1.0 you'd know it was restored. And you'd have a fair idea what it was like before. The details on the label could tell you more if you wanted. But if you didn't like altered books at all you'd know in heartbeat and -- it seems important to some people -- from a distance.

 

Not necessarily advocatin' Just ruminatin'

[batman_fan]

Personally I like the purple labels for the same reason already mentioned, much lower price. I picked up a $6k book with slight P resto for $1k. Sweet book and I am happy. I think the market reaction to blue labels is what caused the purple labels to drop. If I am investing, I am going for blue labeled (without resto notes on the label) and not purple. More opportunity for ROI. I also wish CGC would have a uniform way they determine blue versus purple. I also dislike the granularity in the resto levels and I especially hate the slight notation when a book is trimmed but at least it is noted so I can pass on it. I hope they stay with the purple going forward.

[bluechip]

Personally I like the purple labels for the same reason already mentioned, much lower price. .

 

 

Hey! And it we put a label on it that said "this book sucks" the prices would get even lower.

 

I would like to set up standards for that label and I can't say for sure but I'm expecting that none of my own books would fit the requirements. I can see a lot of others getting it, though.

[agro23]

Personally I like the purple labels for the same reason already mentioned, much lower price. .

 

 

Hey, you know -- if we forced sellers to put on a label that said "this book sucks" the prices would get even lower.

 

I would like to set up standards for that label and I can't say for sure but I'm expecting that none of my own books would fit the requirements. I can see a lot of others getting it, though.

How about "SCARCE" or "CLASSIC COVER"?

[bluechip]

Personally I like the purple labels for the same reason already mentioned, much lower price. .

 

 

Hey, you know -- if we forced sellers to put on a label that said "this book sucks" the prices would get even lower.

 

I would like to set up standards for that label and I can't say for sure but I'm expecting that none of my own books would fit the requirements. I can see a lot of others getting it, though.

How about "SCARCE" or "CLASSIC COVER"?

 

I would be all for putting overstreet style notes on a label if only to see one book on a rack with a label that said "SPANKING PANELS"