Comic Books, Politics, and World-Views

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

This is touchy subject, and from what I have read at these boards, most of the people here are mature enough to handle this topic, and even if we don't agree, we can still shake hands at the end of the day.

 

Should politics be left out of comic books? Realistically speaking is that humanly possible? Referring to American comic books, would that not be a violation of free speech? Should people of different faiths be allowed to express their convictions through the comic book medium? IF not, then would that not be a violation of free speech and religion?

 

Yep, I'm getting into some serious stuff, that does work it's way into the so-called entertainment medium we call a comic book.

 

I hope we can agree that words have meaning, and that they have power, even the power of life and death in them. I hope we can agree that the people that write comic books have political bias, and religious bias. Hopefully we can agree that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a writer to either consciencly or unconsciencly to completely leave their biases out of their writing, even in the comic book medium.

 

Now for the sake of definition I want to clear up what I mean by bias. I am referring to biased as "3 a : BENT, TENDENCY". And by tendency I am referring to that as "2 a : the purposeful trend of something written or said : AIM b : deliberate but indirect advocacy". Hopefully that will keep things in their intended perspective.

 

My opinion on political and religious bias in mainstream comic books is that it should be kept to a minimum. Yes we all have bias, and it does have a way of creeping into just about everything we do, to be completly objective ALL the time would mean that you are not human, but a computer. I think that the best thing to do is 1.) have an awareness of personal bias 2.) and "keep it in check", but that might be an ideal way of looking at it, because chances are somewhere in this thread, my biases will come through.

 

Should we NOT buy comic books that would support writers that we do NOT agree with? Is it ok to "tolerate" writers that we don't agree with for the sake of continuity of a storyline?

 

Well If I have not plucked your heart string yet, then these two links to a couple of debates I have been involved in surely will. If we are to discuss anything in them, then PLEASE carefully read them both in their entirety.

 

New X-Men Plotline

 

What do all those who have a problem with homosexuals think of Northstar X-Men?

 

In reference to those two links, if you read them carefully you will notice that more than one poster is attempting to make me out to be a hypocite, because they think that if they can do that it will discredit everything that I said. But then again, what else can they do?

 

Anyway there are many OTHER issues, in the realm of comic books, politics, and religion to discuss. Can you give me some examples where a comic book writer's bias is obvious?

[chrisfuccione]

Comic books have grown up since the 50's and 60's. They have dealt with touchy subject for a long time. Didn't Denny O'neil do something with the Green Arrow and the Green Lantern in the 70's about them hitchhicking across the country that dealt with alot of current day issues? (I'm a coin guy so I might have some of that infomation wrong). I know that Mike Grell did alot of his Green Arrow with his views in the back of his mind and it looks like Iron man will be the same way. His Green Arrow letter collom was more than a company voice box where people wrote in saying how great the comic was. It had intelegent letters both supporting His views and also going against them. CHRIS

 

 

[awe4one]

Comics should deal with real issues to a point. The majority of comics today are being written not for kids but for late teens and adults (which is one of the major problems with current comics in my opinion). If you don't write them to have the apperence of being relevent to the real world then people will probably get bored with them. I personally read them for escapist entertainment. If I wanted the "real world" I have many other avenues to choose from.

 

And the comic publishers can go overboard....

 

The current Captain America is a example. "I" don't want to see Cap as a terrorist fighting hero. The title seems to be smacking us over the head with current realistic fears to sell a comic. Bad form and not very well done in my opinion. Have Cap fight Hydra all day but don't use real world terrorists as a major driving force in the storyline. I can grab the newspaper for that type info....

 

Also, having the Hulk suggest raping a woman in Ultimates is taking it way too far. At least Claremont had the writing skills to quietly get his point across when discussing the attempted rape of Rogue in X-Men. Millar has no such subtle skills. At least in Claremont's story the instigators were villians that we didn't know about previously. The Hulk is a major character and shouldn't be handled with so carelessly....

 

I could go on....

 

 

Jim

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

awe4one: Comics should deal with real issues to a point. The majority of comics today are being written not for kids but for late teens and adults (which is one of the major problems with current comics in my opinion). If you don't write them to have the apperence of being relevent to the real world then people will probably get bored with them. I personally read them for escapist entertainment. If I wanted the "real world" I have many other avenues to choose from.

 

I agree with you about the current audience, and what the audience probably should be. The problem and reasoning behind that are these two things 1.) comic books are approaching an average price of $2.95 an issue and 2.) comic book publishers know that teens and adults are the ones with the money. I don't agree with your comment about them getting boring though because 1.) the real world has never fully embraced comic books as an "adult" medium, we are labeled as weird childish outcasts to many of our peers and 2.) like yourself I read comic books for escapist entertainment value, and like you, I too prefer to get my "real world" information from another source.

 

awe4one:The current Captain America is a example. "I" don't want to see Cap as a terrorist fighting hero. The title seems to be smacking us over the head with current realistic fears to sell a comic. Bad form and not very well done in my opinion. Have Cap fight Hydra all day but don't use real world terrorists as a major driving force in the storyline. I can grab the newspaper for that type info....

 

Hmmm...I would have to disagree on that one, but maybe we can agree that terrorism is NOT a political issue, and should NOT be treated as one. A good example is the attack on the world trade center in New York. Here are some facts that should help make my point:

 

In the world trade center there were...

 

1.) people representing different political parties

2.) people representing different faiths

3.) people representing different ethnic origins

4.) people represeting different countries

 

I could go on, but you get the idea, terroism is hate crime at it's worst, the terrorists that attacked the World Trade Center attacked America, and Captain America as his name suggests, is a super American soldier, and if comics should deal with real issues to a point, then IMHO in the present time Captain America should be fighting terrorism. Where comic book writers go wrong, is if they try and make a political issue out of it by accusing a political party of making a political issue out of it.

 

awe4one: Also, having the Hulk suggest raping a woman in Ultimates is taking it way too far. At least Claremont had the writing skills to quietly get his point across when discussing the attempted rape of Rogue in X-Men. Millar has no such subtle skills. At least in Claremont's story the instigators were villians that we didn't know about previously. The Hulk is a major character and shouldn't be handled with so carelessly....

 

You will have to forgive my lack of knowledge with the newest books, but from what you have said, I would have to agree with you. It seems thought that Marvel is attempting to make the Hulk into more of a horror character, than the flawed hero that we have grown up with. I would like to see the Hulk and Banner's intelligence become one again, and paying Dale Keown to come back to the Hulk title wouldn't hurt my feelings either I just though of a penciler that IMO, would make a great Hulk artist...Mike Zeck because he has such a good eye for where there should be light and where there should be shadow. Have you ever noticed that his style somewhat resembles another great comic artist...Berni Wrightson?

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Current comics that may fall into this category:

 

Thor is taking this religious aspect to it.....

 

Green Lantern is all about gay bashing and in the end uses it as a segue into John Stewart (?) returning to become Earth' GL

 

Marville is kinda holle , wtf? this is outta hand when you read it...

 

Cap America is all about getting the terrorists....

 

Notice that these titles are probably just using these controversial issues to sell and increase their revenue. IMO, more successful books with a regular following don't resort to these "shock tactics" to sell their books.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

DARTHDIESEL: Notice that these titles are probably just using these controversial issues to sell and increase their revenue. IMO, more successful books with a regular following don't resort to these "shock tactics" to sell their books.

 

I agree with you about shock value and some of the reasoning for it. However many sucessful books HAVE resorted to what you call "shock tacktics" to sell books. Also, I think that what you said dismisses the fact that some writers do try and persuade readers into their way of thinking, because it is natural to do so.

 

Anybody want to read the Comics Code Authority ?

 

DARTHDIESEL, the following is NOT directed specifically to you, but to add more to the discussion I am a spiritual man, but am I interested in reading Thor because of a "religious" issue going on in the title? NO, I'm NOT into the character of Thor, and to be honest, there are many other characters that I am more interested in, and as already mentioned for "religous" information, I prefer direct sources of information. Even though comics throw issues around, I don't read them to gain political or religious information, I read them for escape and entertainment. Would somebody please invent a time machine?

[Darthdiesel]

Maybe I wasn't clear in making my point. I read comics for the sake of reading comics. I prefer comics to paperback novels, Tom Clancy, Anne Rice, Stephen King...blah blah blah, for entertainment. I, too, like the escape afforded by some of these comic stories. I definitely don't appreciate the writers' political/religious viewpoints and takes on current world events being crammed into my entertainment. I didn't say that we should censor it...I'm just saying that I enjoy the comic less when this is the case. Too late I bought it already. I just won't recommend it to friends or others who care to listen to my opinion.

 

Maybe a mind numbing Transformers issue of the latest home appliance that a robot can change its shape into will do the trick, despite the huge suspension of disbelief that I must employ when trying to figure out what happens to the rest of a 18 foot 20 ton robotwhen changing into a toaster?

[Darthdiesel]

Also, having the Hulk suggest raping a woman in Ultimates is taking it way too far

 

Check Spider-Man/Black Cat 3, last page, last panel for another instance...actually used as the cliffhanger...