Was this Leading Comics (Rockford) Worked On?

[esquirecomics]

I just noticed that the Rockford CGC 9.0 copy of Leading Comics #1, which I used to own, was in today's Hake's auction.

 

It originally sold in an old CGC label (#0055934006) on October 19, 2003 via Heritage for $3,680.

 

 

I purchased it, as I recall, sometime in 2004 in a private transaction.

 

I then sold it, still in the old label, via Heritage in my one time consignment on January 21, 2006, for $5,750.

 

 

Just one year later whomever purchased it already had flipped it or was trying to flip it, but NOW it is in a new label. However, it still bears the same serial #.

 

 

The PQ of Cream to OW never changed.

 

It looks like there might have been an attempt to remove some of the minute staining on the front cover, but that could also be simply due to the different scan quality. It could have been a straight resubmit. Of course, it could also be that the slab was cracked and had to be replaced.

 

Does anyone else have a thought on this?

 

BTW, the ending online bid for this book via Hakes was $550!!!!

[RedFury]

Could be the differences in scan quality like you said, but that book looks like it's been cleaned to me.

 

Looking at the other results of the Hakes auction, it seems the final prices for everything was low. I imagine most did not meet the reserve prices.

[innocuous]

I think it is the scan that was manipulated. The new label looks oversaturated when compared to other scans of the new label. (The blue doesn't look "blue".)

[esquirecomics]

I think it is the scan that was manipulated. The new label looks oversaturated when compared to other scans of the new label. (The blue doesn't look "blue".)

 

Well, let me say this. Either the scan has been manipulated in the sense that the book is being portrayed as "brighter" than it is, or something was done to the book. When I owned that copy it was definitely NOT so "colorful". I pride myself in making sure that the scans on my website accurately reflect the true colors of the book. This is how the book appears on my website and this is how it appeared in person when I owned it 13 months ago:

 

[innocuous]

Here ya go. I punched up the yellow a little bit...

 

[batman_fan]

I just noticed that the Rockford CGC 9.0 copy of Leading Comics #1, which I used to own, was in today's Hake's auction.

 

It originally sold in an old CGC label (#0055934006) on October 19, 2003 via Heritage for $3,680.

 

I purchased it, as I recall, sometime in 2004 in a private transaction.

 

I then sold it, still in the old label, via Heritage in my one time consignment on January 21, 2006, for $5,750.

 

Just one year later whomever purchased it already had flipped it or was trying to flip it, but NOW it is in a new label. However, it still bears the same serial #.

 

The PQ of Cream to OW never changed.

 

It looks like there might have been an attempt to remove some of the minute staining on the front cover, but that could also be simply due to the different scan quality. It could have been a straight resubmit. Of course, it could also be that the slab was cracked and had to be replaced.

 

Does anyone else have a thought on this?

 

BTW, the ending online bid for this book via Hakes was $550!!!!

 

I am surprised at that price as well. I wouldn't expect over $400!

 

Just kidding. The Hakes Auction was very poorly advertised and given the sell through on past auctions, I think many buyers (myself included) just looked and moved on. Also, Leading is a bit of a Dog title

[ciorac]

Boy, a good pressing would have removed that spine roll and it might have popped a 9.2!

 

Just kidding of course.

 

I would hazard a guess that the case was damaged. If someone took that book out to clean it, they would have pressed it, then resubmitted it. IMHO.

[lou_fine]

Could be the differences in scan quality like you said, but that book looks like it's been cleaned to me.

 

Actually, if the book had been cleaned, wouldn't that be considered to be restoration and CGC would have slabbed it with a purple label.

 

Or is cleaning one of those activities like pressing or reclosing staples that CGC does not consider to be restoration? Probably depends on the type of cleaning as I thought most forms of cleaning would have resulted in a slight resto label.

 

Hard to keep track of what's resoration and what's not resoration sometimes with CGC.

[esquirecomics]

Could be the differences in scan quality like you said, but that book looks like it's been cleaned to me.

 

Actually, if the book had been cleaned, wouldn't that be considered to be restoration and CGC would have slabbed it with a purple label.

 

Or is cleaning one of those activities like pressing or reclosing staples that CGC does not consider to be restoration? Probably depends on the type of cleaning as I thought most forms of cleaning would have resulted in a slight resto label.

 

Hard to keep track of what's resoration and what's not resoration sometimes with CGC.

 

I believe dry cleaning is not considered restoration by CGC. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

[FlyingDonut]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

[nearmint]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Good catch, Dan. It does indeed look like the same serial #.

[FFB]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Right, the book was never regraded. Just reholdered. But since I have been told repeatedly by knowledgeable people to look upon all high grade, new label slabs with skepticism, I choose to believe that it was cleaned and pressed anyway -- even though I see no actual evidence of that work being done.

[Silver Surfer]

Just curious but if I sent in a cracked open slabb with the label for simply reholdering (lets say with an old label) could they not just provide a new label but same cert number? From what I recall the all reholdered books are regraded anyways are they not? You would think that they would be especially for cracked and damaged slabbs.

[esquirecomics]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Good catch, Dan. It does indeed look like the same serial #.

 

I noted from the beginning it had the same #.

[FlyingDonut]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Right, the book was never regraded. Just reholdered. But since I have been told repeatedly by knowledgeable people to look upon all high grade, new label slabs with skepticism, I choose to believe that it was cleaned and pressed anyway -- even though I see no actual evidence of that work being done.

 

Now now, counselor

 

[esquirecomics]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Right, the book was never regraded. Just reholdered. But since I have been told repeatedly by knowledgeable people to look upon all high grade, new label slabs with skepticism, I choose to believe that it was cleaned and pressed anyway -- even though I see no actual evidence of that work being done.

 

As I said, it is unclear to me what took place. All I can say for a fact is that there was a label change and the scan image of the copy in the Hake's auction is NOT an accurate representation of the book when I owned it. The very LARGE scan I supplied above is EXACTLY how the book looked. And those two comparison images are, IMHO, extremely different.

 

Frankly, I am just as concerned if the scan image in any auction (or dealer website or ebay auction for the matter) has been manipulated to falsely convey a certain asethetic image that does not exist as I would be if the book has been cleared and pressed. The issue is one of disclosure, not of the method, treatement or event.

 

I would be quite annoyed if I purchased the copy from Hakes according to the scan and it arrived looking like the copy when I owned it.

[esquirecomics]

Just curious but if I sent in a cracked open slabb with the label for simply reholdering (lets say with an old label) could they not just provide a new label but same cert number? From what I recall the all reholdered books are regraded anyways are they not? You would think that they would be especially for cracked and damaged slabbs.

 

I do not believe that books submitted simply for reholdering are regraded. I've had quite a few cracked slabs replaced, or errors corrected. They just print up a new label and use the same grade.

[FlyingDonut]

Just curious but if I sent in a cracked open slabb with the label for simply reholdering (lets say with an old label) could they not just provide a new label but same cert number? From what I recall the all reholdered books are regraded anyways are they not? You would think that they would be especially for cracked and damaged slabbs.

 

I do not believe that books submitted simply for reholdering are regraded. I've had quite a few cracked slabs replaced, or errors corrected. They just print up a new label and use the same grade.

 

That's correct. That's why the serial number remains the same. I've asked many times to keep the old label, as I think the old label is much more aesthetically pleasing than the new one, and the answer is always the same.

 

"Sorry, no."

[FlyingDonut]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Right, the book was never regraded. Just reholdered. But since I have been told repeatedly by knowledgeable people to look upon all high grade, new label slabs with skepticism, I choose to believe that it was cleaned and pressed anyway -- even though I see no actual evidence of that work being done.

 

As I said, it is unclear to me what took place. All I can say for a fact is that there was a label change and the scan image of the copy in the Hake's auction is NOT an accurate representation of the book when I owned it. The very LARGE scan I supplied above is EXACTLY how the book looked. And those two comparison images are, IMHO, extremely different.

 

Frankly, I am just as concerned if the scan image in any auction (or dealer website or ebay auction for the matter) has been manipulated to falsely convey a certain asethetic image that does not exist as I would be if the book has been cleared and pressed. The issue is one of disclosure, not of the method, treatement or event.

 

I would be quite annoyed if I purchased the copy from Hakes according to the scan and it arrived looking like the copy when I owned it.

 

You don't believe scans are manipulated? Look at nearly every scan in major auction houses. The colors are a little, shall we say, vibrant.

[esquirecomics]

If it has the same serial number, that would mean the label was submitted along with the book, so it wasn't a resub, but a cracked case.

 

Right, the book was never regraded. Just reholdered. But since I have been told repeatedly by knowledgeable people to look upon all high grade, new label slabs with skepticism, I choose to believe that it was cleaned and pressed anyway -- even though I see no actual evidence of that work being done.

 

As I said, it is unclear to me what took place. All I can say for a fact is that there was a label change and the scan image of the copy in the Hake's auction is NOT an accurate representation of the book when I owned it. The very LARGE scan I supplied above is EXACTLY how the book looked. And those two comparison images are, IMHO, extremely different.

 

Frankly, I am just as concerned if the scan image in any auction (or dealer website or ebay auction for the matter) has been manipulated to falsely convey a certain asethetic image that does not exist as I would be if the book has been cleared and pressed. The issue is one of disclosure, not of the method, treatement or event.

 

I would be quite annoyed if I purchased the copy from Hakes according to the scan and it arrived looking like the copy when I owned it.

 

You don't believe scans are manipulated? Look at nearly every scan in major auction houses. The colors are a little, shall we say, vibrant.

 

Of course I think scans are manipulated. This just happened to be one I caught.

 

It is not appropriate. Whether it is done is a different story.

 

I plan to contact Hakes and inquire about this.