Another re-sub up again on CLINK

[Straw-Man]

Is there no escape from scumbags? I remember when I had to liquidate my original collection in philadelphia circa 1991- I remember the dealer commenting on various books and it finally came to me saying "look at this book- isn't it gourgeous?" He stated they were nothing more than dollar bills to him in no uncertain term (actually, literally come to think of it).

 

J, I remember seeing an interview with Jerry Rice some years ago. Here was the greatest receiver ever to play the game, a man who worked harder than anyone in football, someone I respected very much. I always assumed he was a "throw back", someone who played the game because they loved it. The interviewer was also pursuing a line of questions along that angle and was attempting to solicit an answer that would evoke his love of the game and all that it entails, much like in Field of Dreams when Shoeless Joe and Costner were talking about smelling the glove and the thrill of the grass.

 

The interviewer handed Jerry a football and asked him what it meant to him, what did it represent to him? Jerry pondered for a moment, then looked up and replied...."Dollar signs!"

 

It IS all about the money for most people I'm afraid. But it is what it is. Expecting people to act in altruistic ways is not managaing our expectations.

 

If the grading authority says that pressing and dry cleaning are not restoration and needn't be disclosed, expecting the practitioners of these services and their clients to disclose is not managing our expectations, and does not relegate them to scumbag level.

 

They are playing by the rules. We may not like the rules, but they are playing by them.

 

 

way, way, way, WAY too cogent a post. ban plz.

[FFB]

I think the impressive part is that they were able to remove the dust shadow across the top with a dry-cleaning. Seems like that would be a tough thing to do without a bath.

(and possibly beyond even the magic of wonderbread).

 

Dust shadows have to be removed by dry cleaning. A bath would just cause the bottom layer of dust to cement itself to the book and would make it unremoveable.

 

This is to be distinguished from oxidation shadows and sun shadows, which are not removable by dry cleaning, and have to be washed and/or bleached out.

[nearmint]

Why don't we just call it universal with a slight amount of glue on spine?

 

Why would we want to do that?

 

 

Because calling it an "apparent VF" in a purple label is actually misleading.

 

In my observation, "slight" restoration often amounts virtually to no restoration. Meaning the grade has not been improved upon.

 

I think there is no need for different labels, at all, as you know.

 

But I think that even people who favor colored labels in general can understand that when a dot of glue doesn't change the grade, it's not an "apparent" VF. It's a genuine VF that has a dot of glue on it.

 

Are we talking about the same book? Along with a sealed tear at the spine, the staples have been reinforced, and the book's been disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled.

[action1kid]

quote;// But I think that even people who favor colored labels in general can understand that when a dot of glue doesn't change the grade, it's not an "apparent" VF. It's a genuine VF that has a dot of glue on it.

 

As long as those last 6 words are on the cgc label, I guess its ok. The market is going to discount it from a totally unrestored copy anyway.

[sacentaur]

For the record, the seller told me that the Adv 60 was cracked from a blue label. When I rec'd the book without the label, I asked for it but was told I couldn't have it. Why? Because the book had allegedly been certified for the Geppi Museum opening and was not available for resale. So, would this be a 4th serialized label for this same book?

 

This book was walked through the experts at CGC, and I was told it was completely untouched and nothing had been done to it. How is it that I was able to tell that the book had been manipuilated, but the experts at CGC could not (even if the work was within their "rules")?

 

We're now back full circle to the issue of Full Disclosure, and regardless of what the "rules" are, these types of situations will continue to occur, such books (and their sellers) will continue to be stigmatized, and none of this is good for the health of the hobby.

 

STEVE

[Straw-Man]

For the record, the seller told me that the Adv 60 was cracked from a blue label. When I rec'd the book without the label, I asked for it but was told I couldn't have it. Why? Because the book had allegedly been certified for the Geppi Museum opening and was not available for resale. So, would this be a 4th serialized label for this same book?

 

This book was walked through the experts at CGC, and I was told it was completely untouched and nothing had been done to it. How is it that I was able to tell that the book had been manipuilated, but the experts at CGC could not (even if the work was within their "rules")?

 

We're now back full circle to the issue of Full Disclosure, and regardless of what the "rules" are, these types of situations will continue to occur, such books (and their sellers) will continue to be stigmatized, and none of this is good for the health of the hobby.

 

STEVE

 

steve; innocent question--you being a larson guy, do you think the books with the larson pencil erased are "manipulated" or restored or stigmatized?

[sacentaur]

steve; innocent question--you being a larson guy, do you think the books with the larson pencil erased are "manipulated" or restored or stigmatized?

 

Quite a few Larsons have the name or distributor code erased. Since the Larson name/code is considered by most collectors to enhance the desirability of the book, when erased it could hinder identifying the pedigree. It doesn't bother me that much (I wish it hadn't been done, of course), but I do not attach a stigma nor do I consider that restoration. In almost every case I've seen, it's rather obvious anyway so disclosure it not an issue.

 

One example where it did bother me was on the Marvel Mystery 9 where the book was manipulated to change the grade/label, and the Larson name was also erased - to perhaps hide the fact that a well known book had been worked on.

 

The same would apply to the distributor code being erased from the Adventure 60 as it went from a 7.5 to an 8.5.

 

If a Larson was cleaned (to mitigate foxing, for example) or has glue (which quite a few of them do), I would like to know that.

 

STEVE

[bluechip]

Why don't we just call it universal with a slight amount of glue on spine?

 

Why would we want to do that?

 

 

Because calling it an "apparent VF" in a purple label is actually misleading.

 

In my observation, "slight" restoration often amounts virtually to no restoration. Meaning the grade has not been improved upon.

 

I think there is no need for different labels, at all, as you know.

 

But I think that even people who favor colored labels in general can understand that when a dot of glue doesn't change the grade, it's not an "apparent" VF. It's a genuine VF that has a dot of glue on it.

 

Are we talking about the same book? Along with a sealed tear at the spine, the staples have been reinforced, and the book's been disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled.

 

I was commenting on the info in the original post, which didn't say anything like that.

 

if anything like a sealed tear maes a book better than it did before, then of course I'd consider it restored.

 

As for disassembly and cleaning, if it doesn't add anything to the book or alter its physical makeup in any way, then it's largely an emotional thing.

 

And I'm not sure how or why books can be damned on emotional grounds. I would probably not want to buy a book that I knew had been stored for years in a neo-nazi's bathroom, but if there'd been no physical change to the book I wouldn't know how to insist on the market identifying books like that for me.

[sacentaur]

I'm not concerned about the page quality differential (from off-white to white to white) on the reslab as it simply reflects CGC lowering their standards a bit in this area.

 

This specific book was a topic of conversation at Wizard L.A. However, I'm lacking in the knowledge of dry cleaning - would a sponge used to dry clean the cover leave a residue behind to sparkle under light?

 

STEVE

[Ze-man]

Hey Steve, could you define what you mean by "sparkle"? I assume you mean whatever was used to dry clean it left behind something that embedded itself into the cover? Is it a tangible thing, can you see sparkly specks?..or is it just a look that the book has?

 

Using a sponge is not how a book is normally dry cleaned, (not that somebody has not tried or used a sponge before) Or for that matter why a sponge would be sparkly in the first place. Regardless, anything that could leave behind trace elements that could not be brushed off would obviously be very bad.

 

It makes me wonder if the book could have been re sized incorrectly?

 

Ze-

[sacentaur]

Ze, I can't really describe it (never seen something like that before). No, there's nothing embedded in the cover - it's just the look of book.

 

I had a brief (but nice) chat with Borock up at WonderCon, and he mentioned that he's seen books like this before so maybe he can elaborate...

 

STEVE

[FFB]

Ze, I can't really describe it (never seen something like that before). No, there's nothing embedded in the cover - it's just the look of book.

 

I had a brief (but nice) chat with Borock up at WonderCon, and he mentioned that he's seen books like this before so maybe he can elaborate...

 

STEVE

 

I saw a Showcase #4 that had a weird, almost "sparkly" sheen to it once. I wonder if that's what you are referring to. That book had been solvent cleaned though, and it was pretty obvious. No chance CGC would have missed the cleaning, which is probably why Metro didn't bother slabbing it.

[sacentaur]

I saw a Showcase #4 that had a weird, almost "sparkly" sheen to it once. I wonder if that's what you are referring to. That book had been solvent cleaned though, and it was pretty obvious. No chance CGC would have missed the cleaning, which is probably why Metro didn't bother slabbing it.

 

That could be the best description Scott, but the sparkle was not even throughout (more of a patchwork) on both the front and back covers.

 

The evidence is crystal clear that the book was manipulated, and the sparkle is just another indicator of same.

 

Yet I am the only one in the entire process who noticed?

 

What more can I say...

 

STEVE

[FFB]

I saw a Showcase #4 that had a weird, almost "sparkly" sheen to it once. I wonder if that's what you are referring to. That book had been solvent cleaned though, and it was pretty obvious. No chance CGC would have missed the cleaning, which is probably why Metro didn't bother slabbing it.

 

That could be the best description Scott, but the sparkle was not even throughout (more of a patchwork) on both the front and back covers.

 

The evidence is crystal clear that the book was manipulated, and the sparkle is just another indicator of same.

 

Yet I am the only one in the entire process who noticed?

 

What more can I say...

 

STEVE

 

The book was definitely dry cleaned and pressed, but I can't think of anything anyone would do to that book that would result in splotchy sparkles. Where could one view this book in person? Now I am intrigued.

[Aman619]

were the sparkles only on the characters? often a book reflects gloss only in certain inked areas.... but I cant picture 'sparkly' without thinking "glitter" but Im sure that not what you saw.

[Ze-man]

Of course we will all bust a gut when he posts a scan of the book, only to find out it is the Hello Kitty Holo- Sparkle Variant Edition #1.

 

 

 

j/k

 

 

Seriously though.. Steve, is there any chance of you taking a photo of the book as viewed from an angle, with flash and without? Or am I mistaken in thinking it is in your possession?

 

I am curious myself as to wtf this book looks like! We do likes our mysteries here's.

 

Ze-

[sacentaur]

I sent it back immediately - nothing noted in the scans, but seeing it in person was a different story.

 

Perhaps you can contact thebigloo for more info. Or again, Borock as he told me he's seen books like that before (I hadn't).

 

STEVE

[tth2]

Steve, tell the truth. It was some of your glitter make-up that rubbed off on the comic while you were kissing it, wasn't it?

[sacentaur]

So you're the Peeping Tim! I saw those high-heel impressions in the dirt outside our window.

 

(Well, that's about as plausible an explanation as some of the other nonsense going on about...)

 

STEVE

[tth2]