THE FUTURE OF COMICS BEGINS NOW...

[THE_BEYONDER]

No joke, this is the first time I have ever heard of Future Comics.

 

future comics?

[Ares]

No joke, this is the first time I have ever heard of Future Comics.

 

future comics?

 

Looks like the company might have no future!

[shadroch]

Don't know that much about them but with Giordano, Bob Layton and David Michelinie at the helm, I would think they are worth a look or two.

www.futurecomicsonline.com

[shadowolf-migration]

Well, Bob Layton sucks, so who cares what he does?

[Foolkiller]

This is a pretty interesting thread... I've always thought that trade paperbacks/graphic novel format could be the future, but there's a lot of comic fans out there (who don't read or are on these boards) who go each week to the comic shop to get their weekly comic "fix". It's unlikely that there's going to be a trade paperback released all that often, or more likely every four to six months containing 5 to 6 normal issues.

 

But... there's economics behind it. Why would Marvel and DC move to such a program? Right now, they make the money twice. All tpbs are collections of previously done material... that means they've already primarily paid the artists and writers. Yes, material in the Masterworks, Thor visionaries (vol. 2 comes out in two weeks!) and other "classic" material is all profit after the printing/publishing costs because the material has long been in existence... if the material was particularly hot, they've already sold their print run and are just going to make more on the new "hot" property.

 

New comics numbers dwindle each month it seems, but... you can still sell a book successfully (a la Batman) and then make a killing on two hardcovers, the twelve issue hardcover, the tpb etc. and it goes on and on.

 

As a consumer, I'd rather they do trades. It makes stories easier to read, and personally, I think writers might streamline their stories better. One thing I've noticed is that the stories definitely go on longer with less happening... and although the writing is stronger today than it has ever been, it's certainly a lot looser. I would rather plunk down $19.95 for more/complete store than 2.25 every month for six months to pick up the book that I'll probably buy if it's a good story in trade anyway. Now, I usually just wait (a la the ultimate books, except ultimates) for the trade to come out.

 

I think the move made by future is good for them, but it is not something that we'll see Marvel and DC go to, because there's just no incentive for them. they know there's a devoted readership (currently) that goes and wants its books every wednesday... and there's no need to move to new trades only.

 

I'm not sure GNs are the future either. Although DC has produced several great ones (I thought JLA/JSA crossover and Selina's big score were awesome) Marvel doesn't do much in that department right now, probably for financial reasons. GNs are nice self contained stories in a better format... but I don't see a rapid expansion for them. Plus, there's the issue that artists and writers tend to lygag without a monthly deadline hanging over them. Yeah, they want to get paid... but it really seems sometimes projects just stall that don't have monthly requirements.

 

At any rate, I like that Marvel has reissued the Masterworks (finally catching on to DC's successful archive program) and that they've put a lot of stuff back in print and developed new stuff of classic material. But make no mistake about it, tpbs are a boom because they're primarily printing material already paid for... are they as profitable if they're only printing brand new material?

[BronzeBruce13]

Comics must be liberated from their exile in comic specialty shops! Comics must be liberated from unopened cases and CGC slabs! Bring on the TPBs!

Gene

 

 

Please videotape for me when you liberate your CGC 9.6... ASM 129, DD 168, GS XM1 from their slabs. That would be a sight! Don't get too carried away Gene... there's room for it all... traditional comic format (even if its seriously decreased), TPBs (galore), online comics... whatever! I don't think it has to spell the fall of slabs or back issue comic collecting either. It may help in fact... who knows?

 

I don't oppose the TPB's, although I think some comics should remain in "pamphlet" format. Not everything is a 6 issue story arc and the "Monthly" will be more appropriate for some titles (better selling ones). They could still do the TPB after the fact anyway like they do now..

 

I've been buying more and more new books and think the quality is better than ever, it just took some getting used to. I just read my first MAX title and then bought the entire Alias run. Alias would have been fine in 3-4 TPB's for me.

 

If lumping 5-10 issues together for a better price while creating more exposure and opportunity for new fans to get seduced into the hobby... works... Great! It could create more momentum for the Hobby overall. Maybe the TPB's won't be as collectible from a value standpoint because they will be harder to damage (therefore condition variance could be negligible), but they may be more collectible in some ways too.

 

I don't fear this if it happens... I'll buy more new material too. Its just a super thick comic to me.

[delekkerste]

But... there's economics behind it. Why would Marvel and DC move to such a program? Right now, they make the money twice.

 

This argument is often cited as a "con" of moving to TPBs, but if you think about it, it makes NO SENSE. Repeat, it makes NO SENSE!!! It assumes that Marvel and DC would only make money "once" instead of "twice" if it moved to TPB format. This is wrong for many reasons:

 

1. Pamphlet readers will buy the new TPBs, so it's not like you suddenly "lose" all of these readers. Instead of selling 10,000 TPBs with reprints of recent issues, now you will sell 40,000 TPBs of all-new material since there are no more pamphlets.

 

2. Sure, some people will not like the TPB format and will stop buying, but you can make up for that and more by expanding the distribution channels now that comics are now (a) more attractive (higher margin) to retailers and (b) more portable and durable.

 

3. You can restructure the way you pay creative talent so it's not like you're suddenly "losing" the economic benefit you had from selling current TPBs which contain reprinted material.

 

4. It is more economic to publish 1 TPB than 6 monthly issues (you only have to ship 1 item, have 1 print run, etc.) The cost side of the equation for Marvel & DC would go down dramatically. As a result (along with #1-3 above), the price for TPBs, once they replace pamphlets, would not only NOT have to go up, but they could and should actually decline.

 

The Future Comics press release stressed the *cost savings* for the shift to the format. If it didn't make sense economically, they wouldn't have done it. Right now Marvel and DC might not feel compelled to follow suit, but I think it's only a matter of time before financial realities overwhelm our traditional attachment to pamphlets.

 

Gene

[Metarog]

I would agree with you but only if certain things happen first.

 

1. The current format of comic books is such that printing it is very expensive and unless cheaper alternatives are found (paper stock, cheaper covers, etc) they will eventually price themselves to the point where only a few (thousand) diehards will buy them on a monthly basis. I believe that if publishers do not address this then TPBs will be much more feasible to almost all comic fans.

 

2. The change would have to be very gradual with a few "test" TPBs with all new material coming out for several months and probably years before the bean counters determine whether this is better for their bottom line. This testing period will be very important to all involved (Publishers, Distributors, Consumers, etc). If this doesn't pan out for all involved then all new TPB's may be in trouble.

 

3. I echo the point Foolkiller made-right now TPB's are really the compilation of already published material. Why would Marvel (for example) change to only TPBs when they are double-dipping and I assume making a profit from it. Some artists are also notorious for having problems meeting long term deadlines, so monthlies give them some control over the timely stream of comic book art. If these advantages/hurdles can be dealt with effectively then TPBs can come out every 3 to 6 months and be effective sellers.

 

4. The dreaded X-factor. What about the comic shop owvers? How will this affect them? What other economic problems will the system face? How will this affect back-issues? Will having such long gaps between issues turn off those that need more immediate gratification and lead them to search out other avenues of entertainment?

 

Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts on the matter.

[Foolkiller]

Gene:

 

I disagree with some of the points you made regarding the economics:

 

1. Pamphlet readers will buy the new TPBs, so it's not like you suddenly "lose" all of these readers. Instead of selling 10,000 TPBs with reprints of recent issues, now you will sell 40,000 TPBs of all-new material since there are no more pamphlets.

 

Will they buy the new tpbs? I'm not so sure your readership drop off isn't going to be a little more drastic. Part of what makes comics still go is its habitual nature. You buy every month. The problem with trades is that when there's a collection of stories, is there going to be the same guarantee in production schedule and timing of the book. How many times do people stop reading a book because it didn't come out on time? It's why DC made Jim Lee get enough issues drawn before soliciting so they could maintain the hype... but it wouldn't have been the same without a regular schedule.

 

 

2. Sure, some people will not like the TPB format and will stop buying, but you can make up for that and more by expanding the distribution channels now that comics are now (a) more attractive (higher margin) to retailers and (b) more portable and durable.

 

 

I agree in part with your distribution point... but why do you think it's going to drastically expand beyond the retailers it has already. Barnes and Nobles, Borders, and Amazon already carry trades... are there going to be suddenly more avenues that will want to sell comic related material just because they are books? In part, I think the answer is yes, but will it be drastically better? I don't know. And, you'll kill the comics speciality shop as well... not that it has to be a primary concern, but I don't believe that there's going to be enough material released consistently.

 

 

3. You can restructure the way you pay creative talent so it's not like you're suddenly "losing" the economic benefit you had from selling current TPBs which contain reprinted material.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Since they're currently paid by the page, do you want to profit share with them now? Take a percentage, or pay them collectively for one trade in a flat rate for a story?

 

The presumption above indicated you thought you'd sell 30,000 more trades. But if you have a hot book... like batman for instance. You sell 100,000 copies of Hush. You then sell 10,000 copies of the first hardcover. 10,000 copies of the second hard cover. 8,000 copies of the collected hardcover. 10,000 copies of the trade paperback. The point is... many people who bought the originals will ALSO buy the trades/hardcovers. i do it all the time. So... to minimize the economic loss I think overlooks just how many people in this situation buy both, or might skip it at all. Part of what generates a buzz on a book is that each month it can new readers. Is Fables as successful without the monthly format? How about Authority? Alias? These books all gained success from month to month. Some people may not try new books at $19.95 that they will try at 2.25 or 2.99 one month... but if they do, then you get their money for the next 3 months. And then they have to buy trades to buy what they missed.

 

4. It is more economic to publish 1 TPB than 6 monthly issues (you only have to ship 1 item, have 1 print run, etc.) The cost side of the equation for Marvel & DC would go down dramatically. As a result (along with #1-3 above), the price for TPBs, once they replace pamphlets, would not only NOT have to go up, but they could and should actually decline

 

Yeah, I agree. If you stop with the pamphlets, it would probably drop the cost of production for Marvel and DC. But to be honest, I don't really know all that much about publishing costs and what goes into the manufacture of trades to know this with any kind of certainty... but, I would tend to think you're right.

 

 

I still believe in many instances the economics is not just making the money once vs. twice. Although I still believe that it plays a large part in not moving to trades exclusively, it also has a great deal to do with the timing, the promotion of the product and people's buying habits. Again, as a consumer, I'd buy trades if they were what was available... I'd prefer it for ease of reading. But I'd read a helluva a lot fewer books, and I'd get into my comic store much less often because I knew the material was constantly in print and available.

[shadroch]

Isn't the very definition of a TPB that it contains material previously available in a different form. I thought an originalTPB is an oxymoron.Are we confusing GN with TPBs?

[Foolkiller]

I guess you're right about confusing the name, but I always associate GNs as being shorter than trades, so I guess we're just referring to the length and publication technique... although I think technically, you're right.

[BronzeBruce13]

CBG EXPRESS

COMICS BUYER’S GUIDE Electronic Bulletin 1554.1

 

NEWS: CROSSGEN COMICS BECOME DVDS

 

CrossGen Director of Marketing and Communications Bill Rosemann told CBG, “The San Diego crowd seemed to be ready to take them home right then and there!”

 

Rosemann was reporting reactions to the company’s new line of comics-based DVDs. He said fans had been drawn to the monitor, as they walked past CrossGen’s booth, when the company introduced the DVDs based on Meridian, Scion, Way of the Rat, Negation, and Sojourn.

 

Starting in September, DVD versions of the comic-book series will feature the first six issues of each — except for Meridian, which will feature the first seven — for $9.99 each.

 

Mark Stanley, vice president of marketing for Intec Interactive, the company producing the DVDs, said, “The comics are broken down, page-by-page and panel-by-panel, so that they can be filmed as if they were animatics or storyboards for a film, complete with motion, voice tracks, digital sound effects, and music. They play off the DVD just like a movie and — just like other DVDs — they will be loaded with extras and special features.”

 

Besides conventional DVD players, the DVDs will also be playable on the PC, Macintosh, Playstation 2, and DVD-equipped Xbox hardware.

 

Rosemann said, “Visitors to the CrossGen booth at San Diego seemed to be pleasantly surprised when they saw the DVDs with their own eyes. Those who were new to comics liked how they possessed a cartoon-like quality, while veteran readers admired how the key aspects of comics (panels, word balloons, etc.) were maintained, not to mention such extras as ‘How to Make a Comic Book.’ ”

 

You can read more about CrossGen’s latest program here: http://www.collect.com/interest/article.asp?id=8243

 

 

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Interesting development. Maybe that whole late shipping thing by Crossgen in tandem with this DVD "audio book" program was all part of the divine plan to wean us, old school paper snobs, off their monthly pamphlets as well

 

I hope they get some really good actors/actresses to do the voiceovers...Crossgen is terrible already, all I need is to listen to Roseanne Barr-Arnold or that chick from the Nanny reading it back to me ....:shudder:

[shadroch]

Now that is an interesting develpment. Will they contain

sound effects,dialoge, ect.

In the late 80s someone tried to put out Golden Age books on micro-fiche but I don't think it really took off since you had to buy a machine to watch them. I hpe they start coming out with SA on dvd. Complete with sound effects, they would be like those Marvel cartoons from the mid-60s.

[delekkerste]

Now that is an interesting develpment. Will they contain sound effects,dialoge, ect.

 

I believe so - I have a subscription to CrossGen's "Comics on the Web" and they have dialogue & sound effects, so I assume they'll at least have those on the DVD, if not improved versions.

 

I'll definitely pick up the Sojourn DVD and try it out.

 

Gene

[Illiterati-migration]

Arwyn... le rowr-rowr!