here we go again...ASM #129 cgc 9.6!

[Bronty]

Allow me to say it then

[fantastic_four]

Which aesthetic elements from the Miller stories were missing in the film?

[Bronty]

The amount of background drawn from the Miller series is irrelevant if the film is not enjoyable. The film has to stand on its own. Sure, drawing from the source material to the greatest extent possible is desirable, but the end quality of the product is foremost, and to me, that movie stank

[BronzeBruce13]

I'm one that loved the Miller DD run AND enjoyed the movie... that was the bottom line for me. I enjoyed it and felt my time was spent well. Would I have liked to see some things different?... sure. For starters, I'd have enjoyed a longer film where they took the time to develop the characters more (like Hulk, which some slammed because it was too long developing character). Remember, its "art"... some will enjoy and others won't.

 

One's options for alternative entertainment is a factor too. For me, if I wasn't watching that movie.. I would have been on Ebay, reading comics, playing with my kids (which I do a lot and can spare a the time for a break) or eating at a Chinese Buffet, etc... Not terribly exciting.

 

Someone that had 3 "hotties" waiting for a call to get busy, had 2 parties to attend, and a sky-diving option may have felt his time was wasted unless the film was Oscar caliber

 

Food for thought

[g-man]

i agree that the movie tanked.....and i bought the Miller books off the shelf every other month/month back in the day (around ish #168 and up....). I loved the Ben Urich/Kingpin/Bullseye/Elektra/Turk storylines and great art. Ben Afflack cannot act. He hasn't made a decent flick since Good Will Hunting....Garner was good but no development and not enough screen time. Kingpin was ok but again no character development. Bullseye...over the top by Farrell but did not blow me a way. Was there a story, plot?

Can't comment on the Hulk because I have not seen it.....no interest. I enjoyed X2 much more than DD but not as much as Spider-Man.

 

I would have rather been at a sporting event, concert or any # of other things.

[fantastic_four]

Ben Affleck's acting--he was too morose and overly serious in the film. This made him exactly like Matt Murdock from the comics. One of the reasons Daredevil has always been a second-tier Marvel title because Murdock's overseriousness due to his thirst for justice, and sometimes vengeance, has made him dark and moody. The film and Affleck's performance was pretty much like Murdock in the comics; Murdock really not a difficult character to play as he's typically written. He has very little personality in the comics.

 

Lack of character development of Elektra/Bullseye/Kingpin--I agree with you.

 

Story--lifted right from the comics, so not much to complain about here if you were already a Daredevil fan.

 

Plot--too rushed, I agree. Not amateur, but not really memorable or highly appealing either.

 

I've found that I'm unique in that I'm able to recognize but shut out the negative aspects of a film from my mind if there are enough major positive aspects to overcome it. I thought the action sequences were great in the film. They weren't revolutionary--nothing ground-breaking like the Matrix anywhere in Daredevil--but they were solid and entertaining and much more than enough to keep me distracted from the weaknesses. I enjoyed watching him kick people's butts, and the CGI was minimally distracting (probably mostly due to the extreme darkness and overly-fast cuts).

 

The movie could've been a lot worse...I'm not sure how a Daredevil fan COULDN'T have liked it! I've been waiting for this guy to hit the screen for decades...he made that brief cameo in the Hulk TV movie that was WAY lame compared to this film, yet somewhat interesting and cool to me as a DD fan...this film blew that away.

[davidking623]

whaddaya suppose the reserve is on a book like that? And do you suppose it'll be reached?

 

I've got a bad feeling about the Punisher movie....John Travolta? Oh, come on...

 

I beleive John Travolta to be the second best actor behind Jack Nickolson.I think this Movie will probably Rock and then some!

 

Davidking623

[davidking623]

i would say $1500 reserve.....and the final price will be in the $1900-2100 mark. This is a nicer copy than the last one that was on ebay...his hulk 181 in 9.6 is not pretty but should fetch a nice price.

 

Truth be told here!

 

Davidking623

[Bronty]

Jamie, some of the action sequences were OK but that playground fight scene made it difficult for me to take the movie seriously from that point on.

 

As for your unique ability to enjoy what you realize is flawed, well... it sounds like you're easy to amuse!

[davidking623]

yeah whatever.....movie was lame.

 

I really enjoy that this movie is still being talked about I truly loved it and Im not a big DD fan!!

 

Davidking623

[fantastic_four]

As for your unique ability to enjoy what you realize is flawed, well... it sounds like you're easy to amuse!

 

I guess that's effectively true, but it's mostly because I've written fiction in the past. I'm fairly well in tune with the difficulties of narrative fiction, and to a lesser extent, the elements of filmmaking, and when there are problems with one or more of the major elements of fiction or film composition, I can look past them if the work also has strengths.

 

I always hated Siskel and Ebert because for many years. Ebert used to doggedly look for absolute originality and Academy award material seemingly in every film. He's really mellowed in his old age and I mostly find his reviews well-balanced these days. Roeper can really judge the strengths and weaknesses of a film in a balanced way, something Gene Siskel seemingly NEVER was able to do; he would tear films up if they had almost any flaw. I hate critics who focus on minority portions of a complex work.

 

A love a lot of films with serious flaws. Starship Troopers had AWFUL character interaction, POOR acting, and just felt generally campy, but I love that film because I can look past that and see the incredible special effects; those bugs looked and moved in a MOST awesome way. Star Wars had mediocre acting by everybody but Harrison Ford and a meandering plot, but the story and cinematography were so incredibly strong that it didn't matter! Hollywood's Godzilla had a god-awful boring plot and hokey acting...but the action on that monster was INCREDIBLE!

 

I save my unrelenting derision for films that openly aspire to be art, but for popcorn films, I try to take in the whole picture and toss out the garbage...and if you're able to do that...there was some great material in Daredevil, most particularly for comic book fans.

[Bronty]

I was just kidding, of course. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. You are starting to give comicwiz some serious competition!

 

I think your attitude is actually pretty healthy but personally, I can't enjoy a film if the plot is lacking, as I felt was the case with DD. A story is nothing without a..... story!!!

[fantastic_four]

A story is nothing without a..... story!!!

 

The plot is one thing, but the story was taken from Lee and Miller! I would argue it's not possible to DIS-like the film's story yet LIKE the comic's story. They changed a few things, but nothing major...the story remained remarkably true to the comic. The story is what a work is "about"....Daredevil is about a kid who gets blinded by radioactive waste and gains superpowers that he eventually uses to fight crime in an effort to overcome his guilt and anger over the death of his father, etc etc etc. You probably knew the majority of the story before you even saw the film...the story is what brought you there because you were already a Daredevil fan.

 

Plot is the unfolding of the story over time...and yea, the plot was nothing special. But watching the depiction of Daredevil's powers distracted me from that very effectively. I thought the way they showed his radar sense was PARTICULARLY well done...better than I expected or even imagined how the sense works in my own mind prior to seeing the film.

[Aman619]

Up till now, including all the Marvel films released and in production to date, Marvel hasnt spent a DIME in producing their films. They sell the rights to their characters to producers who pay for the movies themselves or partner with the studios to pay all the costs of everything from star's salaries to donuts on the set.

 

In return for Marvel's "intellectual property" (funny word when applied to comics, like "military intelligence" or "jumbo shrimp"), Marvel negotiates a sgood a deal as their Hollywood clout can force them to give up. Early on they got dik. Lately after Spidet and XMen, they've got "hand". They can get MORE $$$s up front, AND a better back end and licensing deal.

 

If Marvel were to really buy Artisan, the studio making Punisher on the relative cheap, THEN theyd be spending their own money. But even then, theyd use bank loans and film funds from doctors and lawyers around the world sometimes who are promised a decent return on investment AND a seat in "showbiz" which have to be paid back....(or not, as so often happens!

[brian1227]

whaddaya suppose the reserve is on a book like that? And do you suppose it'll be reached?

 

I've got a bad feeling about the Punisher movie....John Travolta? Oh, come on...

 

I beleive John Travolta to be the second best actor behind Jack Nickolson.I think this Movie will probably Rock and then some!

 

Davidking623

 

Are you basing that on his perf in Battlefield:Earth or Basic? And who's gonna believe Mickey Mantle as the Punisher? Hopefully you are correct and the movie will be good, but based on the actors they've rounded up I'm not overly enthusiastic (although I could munch on Rebecca Romjin-Stamos for hours).

 

[delekkerste]

I haven't really heard a fan of the Miller Daredevils say they didn't like the film yet.

 

I would argue it's not possible to DIS-like the film's story yet LIKE the comic's story. They changed a few things, but nothing major...the story remained remarkably true to the comic.

 

What?!!! I consider myself to be as big a Miller DD fan as they come - l'll bet I've read Miller's DD & Elektra stories more than any of you (I'm certain nobody on the Boards has read DD #181 as many times as I have), not to mention accumulated a huge collection of the comics, TPBs (in two languages, to boot), artwork, autographs, movie scripts, etc.

 

And yes, I thought the movie SUCKED. Talk about the triumph of form over substance - all action and little story in its far-too-short running time. And, true to the comics? Like DD killing the rapist "Quesada"? Don't recall DD being a cold-blooded killer. Battlin' Jack Murdock being a small-time Mob enforcer? Don't recall seeing that in the comics. Matt gaining his powers while fleeing in horror from watching his dad shake down a guy instead of heroically saving an old man? Where was that in the comics? Elektra's dad being a pawn of the Kingpin? What about the lush origin of Elektra, departing in anger, finding the Chaste and being rejected by them only to end up becoming a tool of the Hand? All gone. And though we all accept it now, how can we ever forgive the complete butchering of Bullseye?

 

Not to mention Bullseye is supposed to be trash-talking trailer trash, not some brooding, grunting Irishman who barely speaks. Elektra is supposed to be an exotic Greek heiress, not an all-American beauty with a very American accent.

Where was the supporting cast - Turk and Grotto? Stick? Vanessa Fisk? Mr. Slaughter & his boys? The Punisher? You can argue that they did the best they could, but without all these intricacies and sub-plots, let's not say that you couldn't hate the film if you loved the comics.

 

Gene

[supapimp]

very well stated!

[greggy]

very well stated!

[supapimp]

[chrisco37]

Tell us what you really think, Gene! Scathing review of a dreadful movie.

 

Chris