Not 1 Toronto Comic Con report yet? Heres mine

[GOTHAMCENTRAL]

Great sketches Raph and Jason!!!

[That Ron Dude]

When Toronto amalgamated with its boroughs, the papers trumpeted that with the slash of a pen, we had become the 4th largest city in North America. I am sure they weren't including Spanish speaking North America.

 

Toronto is the huge population centre of Canada, but before the political action by Premier Mike Harris (which was supposed to make Toronto run cheaper) it was the 10th or 11th largest city in North America.

 

Locally, we have had many conventions recently with the season just getting into full swing. I have missed most of them because I anticipate the same dealers with very little change of stock. We also have the Detroit Convention four hours away and both the New York and Chicago conventions within a days drive. I don't know how many conventions our city can absorb.

 

That's capitalism. Ultimately it is self correcting.

 

This situation went on similarly on a smaller scale in the mid-eighties when Jim Waley was putting on a one day SuperShows every month while another fellow from Buffalo was often putting on a show only a week before. There was even a third party putting on the occasional one day show, in the mix. A series of individuals tried putting on expensive weekend shows, many of which were hugely entertaining but none of which were financial successes (until Expo came along). Eventually Jim Waley gave up on the mini-cons and that fellow from Buffalo doesn't seem to come around any more. Others have filled the void.

 

If people thought of Toronto as the tenth largest city in North America, within a days drive of Montreal, Buffalo, New York, Washington, Philidelphia, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland and probably a few other big towns, we suddenly seem less impressive. When you add that to the "intensive farming" of the comic community by a plethora of recent shows, well, it's no wonder the Sunday was slow at the "Fan Appreciation Convention".

 

And yes, I know there are many other factors. I just think that this factor is worth mentioning as well, when we talk about the quality of Toronto Comic Conventions.

[Kevin Boyd]

I understand what you are saying, Ron. But Toronto is still an important town, definitely the largest city in the country, population-wise and a much larger cultural centre than Buffalo and Detroit. We've always been within the top 3-4 entertainment cities on the continent. And there was definitely a business exodus from Montreal when the PQ became a stronger political force in the late 1970's.

 

Toronto and surrounding areas were the home of some of the first comic book shops in North America. A few of which are still with us in one form or another.

 

Seems to me that growing up we placed a little higher than 10th or 11th in general population, but that could just be my memory shading things differently.

 

I agree with the basic point about stock and turnover such short periods of time, the good thing of course being that the same dealers don't do all of the events. There's a lot of overlap, but there are some that didn't do this event, and others that didn't do our show a few weeks ago.

 

There's definitely been talk between us (both promoters) of spacing these out better in the future, but sometimes a promoter needs to hear no or receive some constructive feedback other than "get this guest or that guest". If the dealers are willing to support a third three day con in Toronto or another one day con then they can't expect to be surprised if the numbers drop a bit, or they don't make as much money as they thought they would have.

 

And there are a lot of cons out there in general. All over North America, every weekend, there are more of them.

 

But with changes to the border rules there are very few Canadian dealers who do the Detroit show and Americans that do Canadian shows. With Motor City veering away from comic guests towards celebrities, it makes it even more distinguishable. And I can't remember anything happening in Buffalo over the last few years. You are one of the few Torontonians that I know that make the annual trek to the spring Motor City con or the August Chicago con (me being one of the others). 20-40 of us hardly makes a huge dent in the comics buying power of the city of Toronto. Perhaps those numbers were larger when I first started going to these cons a decade ago, but I definitely don't see many Torontonians at that show anymore, despite it being a good buying show. With so many comic events here in Toronto, it could be argued that they no longer NEED to and that they are choosing to stay home to wait for the next high-profile guest-filled local event. Then again, it could be a post 9/11 thing and people just aren't travelling as much.

[That Ron Dude]

Good points Kevin. We are the third largest theatre city, the third largest art gallery city, a big movie city-- perhaps the second largest, and until recently we had the big league record for Baseball attendance. Why not comics? For that matter, why not football, the Olympics, World's Fair, or the other things that the city hasn't quite managed?

 

Did you attend the World SF convention in Toronto in 2003? It was the first in the city in 30 years and it stunk so badly that you can bet Toronto won't host another for another 30 years. The one in 1973 was great though. Thank Mike Glicksohn, the chairman, and his wife back then, one Susan Wood.

 

These things can be done well enough to attract people from everywhere. I mean, if someone in 1970 told you that San Diego would one day become the centre of comic book culture would you have believed them?

 

Still, I am sure that some of what is happening now on the Toronto comic scene has to do with Toronto's being puffed up as a larger city than it really is.

[Kevin Boyd]

No, I didn't go down to the World SF conference. I did attend Neil Gaiman's signing at Chapters that weekend, there had to be over 500 fans there for the signing.

 

No offense to those that attend SF conferences, but I think a big part of the problem with dwindling support for those types of events is admission charges. I like the people that run and attend Ad Astra and Polaris/Toronto Trek, our local SF fan shows, but they charge a fortune to get in, and that insures that it's a niche market activity. As much as I enjoy SF novels and movies, a $40 or $100 daily admission charge is detrimental to my budget. I'd rather spend it on more product.

 

I hope we're getting the interest from outside TO. We're at least getting talked about, and there's more recognition to our event from fans, collectors and pros when I'm on the road talking about it. Sure, there's a puffyness about how great Toronto is, but I haven't had anybody come up and say they had a crappy time visiting Toronto. The puffyness can be justified if the reality of Toronto lives up to the hype.

[That Ron Dude]

I attended the first Ad Astra, found it to be very clubby and left after an hour in spite of paying the full weekend fee. The next time I attended was as a guest about 20 years later. I still didn't feel as though I was part of the club, and left once my obligations as a guest were fulfilled. I have never attended Polaris/Toronto Trek.

 

I have attended many world cons though, in LA, Chicago, Baltimore, NY, Boston, Orlando and Toronto. In spite of the high cost, about $200 for the Baltimore convention years ago, when the Canadian dollar was low, I almost always felt that I got what I paid for. Though I could give examples, I'll just say this-- I attended Baltimore with my twelve year old son and wife, neither of whom give a rat's *spoon* for SF and they both loved it. Any thinking person would have loved it. And you could see where your money was going. The SF world cons are non-profit or not-for-profit or something like that. Any money made is passed on to the next years committee.

 

And the conventions are not dealer oriented. The world cons are very different than comic cons in that way.

 

In 2003 in Toronto, one couldn't help but notice that we, the fans, were getting old and ugly. I sat with a friend at the convention centre and realized that years ago, we two men who years ago were just wimps, were now become old wimps, him with MS, me with a pacemaker. Very few young people were there. Someone else pointed out that the World Con was a "reader con", and that SF is now communicated through alternate media.

 

The world is now a world of SF fans but through movies, anime and video games. Even most of the SF books now are novelizations not novels. The convention in Toronto was about the same size as it had been 30 years before. The reader group had not grown and we didn't cater to the new generation who took their SF in a different dose.

 

Also, as geeky as we comic fans are, we SF fans are full blown Aspergers. The cons are not easily going to attract normal people who just happen to enjoy Star Wars more than most. I know that the Star Trek cons are trying to live down that rep. Not having been to one since 1970, I don't know if the shoe fits or not. But it does fit the people who attend the big conventions. While most of us are very wonderful people we also look weird and act weird. There are no two ways about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is severly deluded.

 

And finally, sure Toronto is a great city. But, as I mentioned, the population is what's puffed up. We wouldn't even be talking about our size if Mike Harris didn't come along and define us into 4th place in North America (while the newspapers redefined Mexico as not being in North America).

[Rodey]

Rochester NY loves Toronto. We even tried to get that ferry boat between the two cities. But alas, greedy NYers got carried away and ruined it. Nonetheless, we still travel by car to your wonderful city.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Great discussion, Kevin and Ron.

[rodan57]

i liked it for the reasons dealers probably didnt, loads of room. i was there saturday and there didnt seem like alot of people but i liked it better because i could get to any log box i wanted without waiting in huge lines. i came, spent my money and left happy. highlight purchases for me were a vf tec. 411, a vg justice league 22 and a 9.4 cgc killing joke, my fave story ever

 

I attended on Saturday and I, too, enjoyed the lack of crowding. One could take the time to look through long boxes quite thoroughly.

 

I managed to pick up some very nice readers (i.e., complete; cover & centrefold firmly attached; no spine splits; no spine rolls --eminently presentable FN- to VF) and very good prices: ASM #24 ($65); JIM #116 ($15) (later found a 1/4" spine split I'd missed), #122 ($17); Marvel Collectors' Items Classics #1 ($30); ST #134 ($40), #143 ($10); #144 ($10); TTA #60 ($30). These prices are in Canadian funds.

 

This makes a strong argument that for raw buys, if you do not need a particular issue badly, then convention purchases are the way to go for Canadians as compared to the uncertaincies, exchange rates and shipping costs of eBay.

 

CGC comics were better represented than I had seen them before -- but I didn't see anything that interested me.

 

I had a very good time, but as nickwire noted -- (if numbers imply good sales?) probably not a great turn out for dealers.

 

Dennis

[Ty_]

I was only able to attend on Friday night but I had wanted to be there all three days. Didn't get to look around at the dealer tables much but from 5-8 the show was pretty busy. I was disappointed that Giffen was unable to attend but the comic pros that did show up that I got to meet were awesome. Dan Slott would talk forever. It was a nice experience to hear him critique an aspiring writer's work.

 

My sketchbook was my main priority and I was able to add some nice sketches. Ron Garney was great. Chris Sprouse actually worked on a published Grendel story so getting him in the sketchbook was sweet (as were the two pages of OA I bought from him). Ivan Reis was amazing. I never saw him not smile as he knocked out sketches at a pretty fast clip. Non-comic pro Kevin Boyd even whipped up a Wolverine sketch.

 

Just took the pics off my camera:

 

RON GARNEY -

 

 

 

KEVIN NOWLAN

 

 

 

IVAN REIS

 

 

 

CHRIS SPROUSE (not sure why he looks like he hates the sketch... I like it)

 

 

 

CARMINE INFANTINO

 

 

 

Personally I had a great time and can't wait for the next 2 Toronto 3 day shows

[VintageComics]

I was stunned to walk by Carmine Infantino. I had no idea he was there, was never a SA DC man, but this guy was just sitting there all alone with no visitors. I was pretty shocked considering this guy is one of the more important artist/creators in comics...he was to DC what Jack Kirby was to Marvel. Such a shame that he was barely recognized.

 

[Jason Truong]

I was stunned to walk by Carmine Infantino. I had no idea he was there, was never a SA DC man, but this guy was just sitting there all alone with no visitors. I was pretty shocked considering this guy is one of the more important artist/creators in comics...he was to DC what Jack Kirby was to Marvel. Such a shame that he was barely recognized.

 

There were times where many people went to see him, and really happy to see him and talk to him. Unfortunately, many people that attended the con were more modern age fans, looking to get sketches. Some, not knowing who Carmine Infantino was (one of the comments I heard was, "Who does that guy think he is, charging $60 for a sketch?").

 

I did have a short conversation with him, when he was asking who was the artist that created Spider-Woman (since I brought up Spider-Woman #1 to get signed).