how many years does it take a CGC comic to turn to dust?

[Scrooge]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

The dead sea scrolls aren't made of ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing. There's a big difference between the dead sea scrolls and a comic book printed on newsprint.

 

"ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing" a.k.a. newsprint paper.

 

FFB, are you by any chance a lawyer?

[FFB]

To answer the OP's question - it will vary from book to book according to storage conditions. BUT - if you look at the results of the Library of Congress' internal study on the brittleness of its old volumes (the startling results of which prompted the LoC's mass deacidification project), I think you'll see that ideal storage only gets you so far for so many years if you're starting out with paper that is acidic to begin with.

[FFB]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

The dead sea scrolls aren't made of ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing. There's a big difference between the dead sea scrolls and a comic book printed on newsprint.

 

"ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing" a.k.a. newsprint paper.

 

FFB, are you by any chance a lawyer?

 

Not all newsprint is made that way (which is why I highlighted the two aspects of the paper that cause it to be acidic instead of just saying "newsprint," which doesn't really say anything to anyone who doesn't know what comic book newsprint is made of), and you already know the answer to your question.

[Scrooge]

To answer the OP's question - it will vary from book to book according to storage conditions. BUT - if you look at the results of the Library of Congress' internal study on the brittleness of its old volumes (the startling results of which prompted the LoC's mass deacidification project), I think you'll see that ideal storage only gets you so far for so many years if you're starting out with paper that is acidic to begin with.

 

Alright, serious question now and if anyone Scott you're the one with the answer:

 

We know the de-acidificaton process will slow down the "decay" process but do you know if the effectiveness of the process vary based on how advanced the "decay" process already is at the time the preventative steps are taken. In other words, will the de-acidification process be more successful, as measured by the rate at which it slows down the aging process, if it is administered on a 30-year piece of paper or a 100-year old piece of paper that's had 70 more years to go down-hill?

[Scrooge]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

The dead sea scrolls aren't made of ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing. There's a big difference between the dead sea scrolls and a comic book printed on newsprint.

 

"ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing" a.k.a. newsprint paper.

 

FFB, are you by any chance a lawyer?

 

Not all newsprint is made that way (which is why I highlighted the two aspects of the paper that cause it to be acidic instead of just saying "newsprint," which doesn't really say anything to anyone who doesn't know what comic book newsprint is made of), and you already know the answer to your question.

 

I guessed as much that it's a specific type of newsprint paper that's more likely to age faster due to its particular properties. BUT, in the spirit of the punchline, I glossed over that fact. Thanks for straightening me out. I expected it. To move on to the serious aspect:

 

In your phrasing, "ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing", which element is the one that indicates this particular form of newsprint paper is acidic in nature? Is it the alum rosin part? or the ligneous groundwood part? From reading the foxing article, it seems that the alum rosin part is the one responsible for foxing because it adds the metallic element or is it the industrial printing process that adds the metallic part to the paper? I guess this has become a two-part question now.

[FFB]

To answer the OP's question - it will vary from book to book according to storage conditions. BUT - if you look at the results of the Library of Congress' internal study on the brittleness of its old volumes (the startling results of which prompted the LoC's mass deacidification project), I think you'll see that ideal storage only gets you so far for so many years if you're starting out with paper that is acidic to begin with.

 

Alright, serious question now and if anyone Scott you're the one with the answer:

 

We know the de-acidificaton process will slow down the "decay" process but do you know if the effectiveness of the process vary based on how advanced the "decay" process already is at the time the preventative steps are taken. In other words, will the de-acidification process be more successful, as measured by the rate at which it slows down the aging process, if it is administered on a 30-year piece of paper or a 100-year old piece of paper that's had 70 more years to go down-hill?

 

If you deacidify an old piece of paper that is already pretty far gone, you will raise the pH (which is what I consider to be "success" for a deacidification procedure) but you aren't increasing the paper's strength (which it sounds like might be what you're referring to). So an older artifact with more compromised paper will not last as long as a brand new artifact with fresh paper if you deacidify both of them at the same time and store them in identical conditions, because the compromised paper wasn't as strong to begin with. But it will still last a lot longer than it otherwise would have if you hadn't deacidified it.

[FFB]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

The dead sea scrolls aren't made of ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing. There's a big difference between the dead sea scrolls and a comic book printed on newsprint.

 

"ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing" a.k.a. newsprint paper.

 

FFB, are you by any chance a lawyer?

 

Not all newsprint is made that way (which is why I highlighted the two aspects of the paper that cause it to be acidic instead of just saying "newsprint," which doesn't really say anything to anyone who doesn't know what comic book newsprint is made of), and you already know the answer to your question.

 

I guessed as much that it's a specific type of newsprint paper that's more likely to age faster due to its particular properties. BUT, in the spirit of the punchline, I glossed over that fact. Thanks for straightening me out. I expected it. To move on to the serious aspect:

 

In your phrasing, "ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing", which element is the one that indicates this particular form of newsprint paper is acidic in nature? Is it the alum rosin part? or the ligneous groundwood part? From reading the foxing article, it seems that the alum rosin part is the one responsible for foxing because it adds the metallic element or is it the industrial printing process that adds the metallic part to the paper? I guess this has become a two-part question now.

 

The lignin is what breaks down during acid hydrolysis in paper. And alum rosin sizing is naturally acidic. So it is a "two-pronged attack" on the strength of the paper.

 

As for what causes foxing, I don't know. I have read a few articles about different people's theories (which I've posted in the Grading and Resto forum in the past), but they are so far over my head that I'd be talking out of my azz if I tried to pick a side.

[Scrooge]

Thanks. You answered both my questions.

[selegue]

...

 

In your phrasing, "ligneous groundwood pulp with alum rosin sizing", which element is the one that indicates this particular form of newsprint paper is acidic in nature? Is it the alum rosin part? or the ligneous groundwood part? From reading the foxing article, it seems that the alum rosin part is the one responsible for foxing because it adds the metallic element or is it the industrial printing process that adds the metallic part to the paper? I guess this has become a two-part question now.

 

The lignin is what breaks down during acid hydrolysis in paper. And alum rosin sizing is naturally acidic. So it is a "two-pronged attack" on the strength of the paper.

 

As for what causes foxing, I don't know. I have read a few articles about different people's theories (which I've posted in the Grading and Resto forum in the past), but they are so far over my head that I'd be talking out of my azz if I tried to pick a side.

 

Your use of the phrase "alum-rosin sizing" led me to this very good www article.

Alum-rosin size

 

I'll post it on the tech thread that we started too.

 

Thanks,

Jack

[Jeffro.]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

Right on brutha!

[selegue]

That's EXACTLY what I thought of when I saw this thread.

 

 

I know it dates me but...

 

I think it dates me even more. What's the picture from?

 

Jack

[mica]

That's EXACTLY what I thought of when I saw this thread.

 

 

I know it dates me but...

 

I think it dates me even more. What's the picture from?

 

Jack

Tootsie roll pop

[deathlok]

[Wally's Comics]

retro craap rules!

 

 

[FFB]

I have to say that is one of the most brilliant ads ever made. It totally made every kid I know want to go right out and buy a Tootsie Pop and figure out how many licks it took to get to the center.

 

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[chrisco37]

I have to say that is one of the most brilliant ads ever made. It totally made every kid I know want to go right out and buy a Tootsie Pop and figure out how many licks it took to get to the center.

 

It sure did. Mr. Owl was full of *spoon*! It was alot more than 3.

[binarysunrise]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

So...should we be shoving our comics into jars then?

[skybolt]

The dead sea scrolls were 1000 years old and held up pretty well in jars out in a cave. I think the question has more to do with how the book is keep and less to do with the case itself.

 

So...should we be shoving our comics into jars then?

 

I was thinking more in the lines of renting out a cave.

[MutantKeys]

I have to say that is one of the most brilliant ads ever made. It totally made every kid I know want to go right out and buy a Tootsie Pop and figure out how many licks it took to get to the center.

 

It sure did. Mr. Owl was full of *spoon*! It was alot more than 3.

That commercial mustve went on for a long time ...even I remember it when I was little.

[chrisco37]

I have to say that is one of the most brilliant ads ever made. It totally made every kid I know want to go right out and buy a Tootsie Pop and figure out how many licks it took to get to the center.

 

It sure did. Mr. Owl was full of *spoon*! It was alot more than 3.

That commercial mustve went on for a long time ...even I remember it when I was little.

 

Damn! I'm not that old!