POLL: Should CGC get rid of the purple Restored label???

[tth2]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

Kilty has just nailed this one on the head.

[Red Hook]

Yeah, but think how positively it will affect the turnaround times!

[CW]

If CGC has a second 10 point grade on the book then I have no problem with the change as long as it is obvious. I agree with Kiltman's point that for those of us that don't collect restored books it was really easy to dismiss a book seeing the plod from a small scan. I like the idea that the grade of restoration may help show the differences of very minor restoration versus extensive to buyers who for the most part consider all restoration as restoration with little attention to how much.

My one question is, What changed from the first days of CGC (when it was decided that a PLOD was a good idea) to today when it is now a bad idea? Why?

Just wondering what the reasoning is. I think the scale for resto is a great idea but why not keep the purple label also?

[Aman619]

Until we see the final label, we dont know just how things will change. What if instead of a purple label that is in every other way identical to th eblue ones, they now use a blue label with two big grade boxes: one for the grade, th eother for the degree of restoration. Will the same people who decried the PLOD now be upset that these new labels are STILL visually diddimilart to universal blue ones?

 

Or will CGC have to merely add some small far LESS visually obvious restotation factor notation, pleasing the anti-PLOD crowd, but potentially making it easier to hide the status as restored??

 

ANyone have a clue as to CGCs plans for the new label? IMO, fine, get rid of purple, but dont make the Resto notation too subtle.

[FFB]

I missed the part where Steve said they are going to use a numerical value to indicate the level of restoration. I assume this is something you heard or know about, Scott? That would be interesting.

 

It is going to be interesting when sellers of raw restored books (like El Hammerhoid) will be able to make claims about the level of restoration in the books they are selling. More shimmy shimmy shake. Too bad CGC can't do any market testing of their ideas first. Did they confer with anyone on the collecting side? Just asking.

 

IIRC, the general idea of a ten-point restoration scale was originally devised by Jon Berk, so yeah, I guess you could say that they've conferred with someone on the collecting side.

 

As for the ten point restoration scale, that's something that CGC was telling people in San Diego.

 

I don't understand your shimmy shake comment about Hammer, nor do I see a connection to CGC's use of a more detailed restoration scale and Hammer's auction descriptions. Are you saying that he'll be disclosing MORE restoration once there's a more detailed scale in place?

[FFB]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

Really?

 

610,204 books graded to date by CGC as of recent census update

3.4% of those are restored or qualified labels (13,533 restored, 7,433 qualified)

= 20,966 books that are potential reholders.

X $11 per reholder

= $230,626

assuming 25% profit margin on the reholders (a safe assumption)

= $57,656 (pre-tax profit), but only if ALL restored and qualified books get reholdered.

 

Granted, $57K isn't chump change, but it's also not really the financial windfall that you'd write home about. And if only half of the restored/qualified books get reholdered, then we're talking a really negligible amount of money -- probably not enough to cover the cost of R&D involved in fleshing out the restoration system, training everyone on the new system, and updating the databases to reflect the new system.

 

Bottom line is that I am not so easily convinced that CGC is just doing this to find another way to screw people out of their cash. I believe they're doing it because people who collect restored books are tired of having their books treated as purple-headed step-children.

[october]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

Really?

 

610,204 books graded to date by CGC as of recent census update

3.4% of those are restored or qualified labels (13,533 restored, 7,433 qualified)

= 20,966 books that are potential reholders.

X $11 per reholder

= $230,626

assuming 25% profit margin on the reholders (a safe assumption)

= $57,656 (pre-tax profit), but only if ALL restored and qualified books get reholdered.

 

Granted, $57K isn't chump change, but it's also not really the financial windfall that you'd write home about. And if only half of the restored/qualified books get reholdered, then we're talking a really negligible amount of money -- probably not enough to cover the cost of R&D involved in fleshing out the restoration system, training everyone on the new system, and updating the databases to reflect the new system.

 

Bottom line is that I am not so easily convinced that CGC is just doing this to find another way to screw people out of their cash. I believe they're doing it because people who collect restored books are tired of having their books treated as purple-headed step-children.

 

Another beautiful theory mugged by a vicious gang of facts.

[PovertyRow]

By the way

Resto=different color label end of discussion

 

Apparently not the end of the discussion, since the purple label is going the way of the do do bird. CGC is switching to all one color label (blue) for restored books, with appropriate notations.

 

Even though when I first hit these boards I was in favor of colored labels, I have long changed my thinking and have been pushing for one label color with clear and easy to read Grades and notes. I have had several conversations with Steve B about it as well. Nice to see this finally taking shape.

 

I can see someting like a R8.5P as a grade to indicate Restored 8.5 Professional. And as far as sams go, it is not too difficult (aka easy) to change the label color in a scan from purple to blue.

 

Maybe, when this is implemented, folks WILL start thinking more about the levels of restoration and the price they are willing to pay.

[Red Hook]

 

I don't understand your shimmy shake comment about Hammer, nor do I see a connection to CGC's use of a more detailed restoration scale and Hammer's auction descriptions. Are you saying that he'll be disclosing MORE restoration once there's a more detailed scale in place?

 

My head hurts, I just ate, I don't feel witty, so I'm just going to ask you another question and avoid answering yours....

 

How do you think this will affect the price of restored books, if at all?

[FFB]

 

I don't understand your shimmy shake comment about Hammer, nor do I see a connection to CGC's use of a more detailed restoration scale and Hammer's auction descriptions. Are you saying that he'll be disclosing MORE restoration once there's a more detailed scale in place?

 

My head hurts, I just ate, I don't feel witty, so I'm just going to ask you another question and avoid answering yours....

 

How do you think this will affect the price of restored books, if at all?

 

I think that GA books with a dot of color touch or a spot of glue on the spine will increase in value, since they suffered the most as a result of the PLOD. I think there will be more of a widening between values of frankenbooks and values of books with little restoration. I do not think it will be immediate though, nor do I think the changes in value will be huge. To some extent, I think the damage from the PLOD has been done and won't easily be undone now that most people in the industry consider restored books to be "bad" books.

[Red Hook]

Sounds good.

[chrisco37]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

Really?

 

610,204 books graded to date by CGC as of recent census update

3.4% of those are restored or qualified labels (13,533 restored, 7,433 qualified)

= 20,966 books that are potential reholders.

X $11 per reholder

= $230,626

assuming 25% profit margin on the reholders (a safe assumption)

= $57,656 (pre-tax profit), but only if ALL restored and qualified books get reholdered.

 

Have they said they will charge the only the $11 re-holdering fee? Would they assign the new label with both grades (apparent grade and restored grade) for $11, or would you have to pay the extra to get the resto grade added?

[FFB]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

Really?

 

610,204 books graded to date by CGC as of recent census update

3.4% of those are restored or qualified labels (13,533 restored, 7,433 qualified)

= 20,966 books that are potential reholders.

X $11 per reholder

= $230,626

assuming 25% profit margin on the reholders (a safe assumption)

= $57,656 (pre-tax profit), but only if ALL restored and qualified books get reholdered.

 

Have they said they will charge the only the $11 re-holdering fee? Would they assign the new label with both grades (apparent grade and restored grade) for $11, or would you have to pay the extra to get the resto grade added?

 

Good question, Chris. I don't know (my completely uneducated guess is that they'll charge to have the books regraded), but I'm not sure it matters from a numbers perspective. A good portion of the restored books out there are Slight (A) or have Moderate or Extensive work where it's not worth sinking any more money into the book to get an actual restoration score assigned to it. Also, very few restored books are worth enough to put them at or above the Express Tier, so the profit margin on a resub isn't going to be that high. In absolute dollars, we're not talking about a lot of money.

[Forbush-Man]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

 

Good question, Chris. I don't know (my completely uneducated guess is that they'll charge to have the books regraded), but I'm not sure it matters from a numbers perspective. A good portion of the restored books out there are Slight (A) or have Moderate or Extensive work where it's not worth sinking any more money into the book to get an actual restoration score assigned to it. Also, very few restored books are worth enough to put them at or above the Express Tier, so the profit margin on a resub isn't going to be that high. In absolute dollars, we're not talking about a lot of money.

 

I would think that owners of PLOD books will pay the re-sub price to get a blue label, as their chances of the selling the books will increase (less resistance to restoration simply by the change in label color). The overall cost to CGC to simply re-slab a book will be minimal. It will be interesting to see if restored books become a hotter item due to this. I don't have a problem with restored books as long as (1) the restoration is "slight", (2) the restoration is "Professional" & (3) the price is right.

 

For those who don't like restoration it will be a "buyer beware" situation. I would like the PLOD label to go away myself, as it has put a stigma in the market. Just MHO.

 

To me, restoration has only been an issue if it undisclosed.

[FFB]

CGC are going to make a pocket full of cash on the resubs of green and purple labels.

 

 

Good question, Chris. I don't know (my completely uneducated guess is that they'll charge to have the books regraded), but I'm not sure it matters from a numbers perspective. A good portion of the restored books out there are Slight (A) or have Moderate or Extensive work where it's not worth sinking any more money into the book to get an actual restoration score assigned to it. Also, very few restored books are worth enough to put them at or above the Express Tier, so the profit margin on a resub isn't going to be that high. In absolute dollars, we're not talking about a lot of money.

 

I would think that owners of PLOD books will pay the re-sub price to get a blue label, as their chances of the selling the books will increase (less resistance to restoration simply by the change in label color). The overall cost to CGC to simply re-slab a book will be minimal. It will be interesting to see if restored books become a hotter item due to this. I don't have a problem with restored books as long as (1) the restoration is "slight", (2) the restoration is "Professional" & (3) the price is right.

 

For those who don't like restoration it will be a "buyer beware" situation. I would like the PLOD label to go away myself, as it has put a stigma in the market. Just MHO.

 

To me, restoration has only been an issue if it undisclosed.

 

But if the book has to be re-graded (as opposed to just being re-slabbed) for a full grading fee, there will be a lot more of the lower-dollar restored books (like BA and common SA books with amateur color touch) where the owners will not want to sink another dollar into those books. And even if they just had to pay a re-slab fee of $11, that would keep most people who have restored books worth less than $100 from reslabbing.