poly bag haze.....

[shiverbones]

how does everyone grade for that yellowy haze books get from being in a cheap bag for too long? I am noticing it on more and more bronze books, like an epidemic! It seems the books weren't cared about for years and just sat in storage in the same bag for 15 years. I persoanlly think its a pretty major problem as it has broken down the papers stability. Do you consider it a page quality issue or condition issue?

[OldGuy]

I've never seen "the haze" as part of the comic, but as part of the bag. Take the comic out of the bag and "the haze" stays on the bag, not the book. Can you post a scan of the book?

[shiverbones]

you have never seen the odd block of oily yellow that stains the fronts and backs of books? I don't mean poly bag as in 90's speculator copies sold that way, but polypropylene bags instead of mylar that have been sitting on books for a long time. I'll see if i can get a scan up later tonight.

[ninanina]

Had some of my comics in a poly bag for over 20 years and re-bagged them a couple years ago. They were brand new when I bought them and there was no yellowing. The bags actully did a fantastic job preserving them. So, I'm not convinced the bag (by itself) is doing this.

 

Maybe it's a combination of things?

[OldGuy]

you have never seen the odd block of oily yellow that stains the fronts and backs of books?

 

No, never. I re-bagged some book recently that had been in the same bags for ~15 years and the bags were yellow as [!@#%^&^], but the books looked brand new.

 

I don't mean poly bag as in 90's speculator copies sold that way, but polypropylene bags instead of mylar that have been sitting on books for a long time.

 

Yea, we are talking about the same thing.

[drbanner]

I don't think the polypro bags cause the effect, but I know exactly what you're talking about. I believe it's caused by storage conditions, and possibly excess solvent used in the inks (both cover inks and interior page inks). Typically, it's noticably worse in the interior than the edges, leading me to believe that the edges "dried out" better, leaving the interior with that oily/yellowed appearance.

 

Here's an example. I bought this book from the original owner, and it had never been boarded/bagged (or read for that matter!) until I got it.

 

 

 

[shiverbones]

thats exactly it Dr.! I always assumed it was the bags. I found a good amount like that and they were in terribly yellow bags. I have gotten some online as well so i don't know what their conditions were. It seems to be WAY more common with bronze age. And the edges are always "Dried out" like you say. Interesting that it was on a non bagged book......

[Arty]

Simply these are "ink transfer stains".

That yellow color on covers is caused by "oils" (from ink) transferred from interior pages.

The reason why edges are never affected by that yellowness is simply that there's no art printed on the edges of interior pages.

 

Cover translucency (sp) is also caused by ink transfer stains.

 

 

 

[drbanner]

Hmmm...I thought "ink transfer stains" were the defects commonly seen on Marvel Spotlight 2, Batman 238, and others where the ink from the copy on top (or underneath) actually sticks to the top (or bottom) of the book next to it in the stack? In other words, the ink isn't totally dry when the books are stacked after printing and collating.

 

But you're right, the phenomena of the oils (solvents) in the ink of the interior pages affecting the interior section of the cover is what causes this look.

[shiverbones]

i am with banner of the transfer terminology, but thanks to all for the info on the ink solvent problem! Now, how does that affect grade for you? And Banner, everytime i see your sig line i almost feel guilty, but i can't let my NM hulks below #200 go..... true 9.4's i only have #164 & 169 anyway....

[PovertyRow]

I've known that type of stain as an ink transfer stain for well over 15 years. Now that just may mean I've been making the same mistake for that long.

[Arty]

If I have used incorrect terminology, it's all Pov's fault Just look at this thread

 

There's also interesting info about how to remove "ink transfer stains".

[PovertyRow]

Well, I did some looking on the internet and it seems to now be called just a "transfer stain". But we DID used to call it "ink transfer stain" back then. And since the stain originated with ink components, then I guess it is accurate enough!