QUESTION ABOUT SHILLING? (((POLL)))

[Rickdogg]

I am asking this since a particular board member believes this to be true.

 

Is it "shilling"?

 

-If you place a cheapie bid on an item just to watch the market on a certain book you are interested in? I do this on a regular basis on X-men books to see what the ending prices are since my watch list (30 items) is usally filled to the max. I also place cheapie bids on board member items for sale when I see them in the marketplace & if I do end up winning the item for the unrealistically low bid (which is never the case), I would gladly pay.

 

SO THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS SHILLING? POLL IS BELOW.

[Rickdogg]

 

 

[greggy]

Yeah, eBay should ban that Matt guy!

[Rickdogg]

Yeah he bids on everything. He must be shilling! HAHAHAHAHA. To those that can't understand sarcasm (hint hint) read my signature below.

[greggy]

Whew, your GF must be relieved!

[Rickdogg]

I knew you were going to say something like that. Hey Greggy when was the last time you had a GF? Back in the 70's?

[greggy]

Nah, your sister(s) were still on the boat at that time!

[lighthouse]

I thought Randy Johnson had a better year, but I guess it really depends on which statistics you want to look at, because... oh.... wait...

[greggy]

Boy, you are kinda weird!

[Guest]

Not as good a year as Bonds, MVP (HGH).

[PovertyRow]

I did not fill in the form because it is really not relevant. SHILL BIDDING is either yourself under another ID or friends or people working with you bidding on an item for the simple purpose of jacking up the price. If you bid and intend to buy, regardless of the bid - it is not shill bidding.

[Rickdogg]

Yeah I just want to clarify since a board member accused a few of us of shill bidding

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

Hey Dogg, I find your thread here to be spiteful and mean spirited in the complete context of it. What is your point? To demoralize, and make me look like a fool? Your lack of maturity surprises me. I wanted to just drop the issue, but it appears that you to want to make it a knock down drag out.

 

For those that are wondering what Rick is talking about, the following thread in where this started. Ultimate Spider-Man Prices

 

You have to understand that I don't know anyone posting here, and to post as if people should know who you are is unreasonable. So I ask those that have not been involved in this discussion, could the first 5 statements that have been made in the Ultimate Spider-Man thread lead a person to wonder if "rickdogg" and "Bonds25" have conspired through public/private messages to shill bid?

 

(the first 5 comments were before I posted in the thread)

 

rickdogg: "I always bid on Darth's books to get a peak at the auction end price"

 

Bonds25: "Yep, me too. I bid on most of the stuff that is listed on these boards, usually just to help out my fellow board members."

 

rickdogg: "LMAO, I have some bronze age x-mens up with no reserve if you want to bid HAHAHHAHAHAHA."

 

Bonds25: "Done! "

 

rickdogg: "LMAO I noticed With no reserves lets see where they go "

 

Doc: "I assume this is a typo, rdogg, but the way it reads is totally different. Sounds like an admission of shilling. "

 

rickdogg: "lmao not shilling just putting in a small bid amount to watch the auction so i dont have to put it on my Full watch list De-lekkerste does it all of the time too I just noticed since we both bid on x-mens a lot. "

 

delekkerste: "As Ricky says, I often put in a bid at the minimum or one increment higher that is easily overtaken so I don't have to fill up my Watch List. Sometimes that bid is never overtaken and I end up getting stuck with the merchandise, but that's life, not shill bidding. I should re-emphasize that there must be *collusion with the seller* for the practice of shilling to be present."

 

Doc: "Sorry if my in jest post, punctuated with smiley icons, left any doubt."

 

DARTHDIESEL: "MOS, where did Gene (delekkerste) say that he bids on his OWN auctions???"

 

DARTHDIESEL: "No harm done Doc - it seems that MOS may be an aggressive anti-shiller, (like most of us here), but should read the threads a little more accurately before jumping the gun."

 

DARTHDIESEL: "Rdogg may have given the wrong impression. Gene bids on a lot of auctions across the board. He does not do it to raise the price, nor does he renege on any of them, regardless of how ludicrously high, IMO , the ending price."

 

DARTHDIESEL: "My problem is that to people like MOS who are

UNCLEAR on applying the definition of shill bidding and goes off half cocked reporting honest sellers to eBay, can cause major problems for any seller because eBay will suspend them indefinitely until the seller can prove he has no nexus to the "crime" of shilling. Here, ebay treats the seller as guilty until proven innocent."

 

 

Shill Bidding: What is it and why it's not permitted on eBay

 

"Q. What is shill bidding?

A. Shill bidding is the deliberate placing of bids to artificially raise the price of an item and is not allowed. To avoid the appearance of being involved this activity, family members and individuals living together, working together or sharing a computer, should not bid on each other's items."

 

"Q. Can my friends bid on my item?

A. If your friend sincerely intends to purchase your item, then her bids are certainly allowed. Bidding on your item for the sole purpose of inflating the final bid amount is forbidden."

 

"Q. Can sellers bid on their own listings?

A. Not any more. eBay originally allowed sellers to bid on their own listings as a way to close their listing without selling to the highest bidder. Unfortunately, this privilege was abused so it had to be eliminated. Now, bidding on your own item is considered shill bidding and is not allowed."

 

 

Before people starting falsely accusing me (as evideced by this thread) and calling me a jack as Rick did, I wanted to say that the statements that were made could be interpreted in more than one way, and maybe I jumped to the wrong conclusion, I'm sorry, and I would ask that people make themselves CLEAR when posting so as to NOT expect everyone to know what they mean when making a statement that leaves MUCH room for interpretation.

 

Doc: "Both DARTH and rickdogg are first class board members, and people who, from what I know of them, would not be involved in shilling. Sorry if my in jest post, punctuated with smiley icons, left any doubt."

 

Yep Doc, your jesting did leave doubt, I accept your apology, but unfortunatly some things have been said about me that have caused me to think about NOT posting at this board anymore.

 

BTW, I didn't vote, and I'm not gonna vote, this topic should have never came up, eBay is the final say, NOT your poll. Rick you should have tried to settle the issue in the thread that it started, but it seems you would rather insult my intelligence in another thread too. *sigh*

[Rickdogg]

Just proving a valid point. Sure i'd love to drop this topic, but you made negative comments about our selling practices which may potentially drive away customers! So I believe we have the right to defend against your slander!

 

Your definition of shilling does not meet ebay's definition at all (LOOK AT THE FREAKIN' POLL). So please stop posting ebay's definition of shill bidding when we already know what it means. If you haven't noticed WE ARE POWERSELLERS. By you accusing me, Darth, bonds25, and Delekkerste of shill bidding is UNCALLED FOR on your part. If you DON'T KNOW us or the TRUE FACTS about our selling practices then please don't make slanderish statements that may effect our credibility as ebay sellers.

 

Phil, that comment was uncalled for, but you are entitled to your opinon/feelings. A few threads? Please explain. If you find a messageboard where you agree with everyone then let me know about it because I have yet to see one. There have been differences of opinions, and if you agreed with everyone wouldn't that get boring? I don't debate for the sake of debating, if I think I have a valid point, then I bring it up, otherwise I agree, just ask CI. We have debated, and we have agreed, these boards are going to have some of that. What can I say about my style of posting, other than it's my style and if you don't like it then I can't help that.

 

IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY STYLE OF POSTING THEN THAT'S TOO BAD ISN'T IT?!?!?! When it comes to slander statements about credible ebayers i'm going to say something. SORRY! Yes, I made this poll to prove you wrong! So what? I'm not going to take the backseat and allow you to badger good board members that happen to be ebay's finest members as well.

 

it seems you would rather insult my intelligence in another thread too

 

I don't need to insult your intelligence since other members of this board see your stupidity by reading your posts. As far as i'm concerned, I believe I made my point clear. End of discussion.

[Rickdogg]

[Lighten up- edited for content - Arch] errr I mean MOS, also forgot to add:

 

Bonds25:"Hmmm, so I bid on Rickdogg's auctions that had NO reserve and am now high bidder. So, if I win the auctions, I HAVE to pay for them. A definite sign of shill bidding to me. LMAO!"

 

[No. No more biggest xxx on the boards posts. It gets too ugly.--- Arch]

 

rickdogg:"When I told Bonds25 to bid on my X-mens, I meant for him to bid if he wants the items. As a matter of fact he bid on my Hulk #180 a few weeks back and won it He paid me, I sent the book, and we both exchanged positive feedback. HOW IS THAT SHILLING?"

 

 

 

 

 

[snizzenfixit]

Here we go again.

 

What is your point? To demoralize, and make me look like a fool?

 

Umm, you don't need Ricky's help for that, you are doing just fine all by yourself.

 

could the first 5 statements that have been made in the Ultimate Spider-Man thread lead a person to wonder if "rickdogg" and "Bonds25" have conspired through public/private messages to shill bid?

 

There is a huge leap between wondering, and assuming.

 

I would ask that people make themselves CLEAR when posting so as to NOT expect everyone to know what they mean when making a statement that leaves MUCH room for interpretation.

 

If you were "unclear" then you should have asked, rather than attacked. No one is responsible to explain as if speaking to a four year old, so that you can "get" what people are talking about. If the conversation is over your head then steer clear of it.

 

BTW, I didn't vote, and I'm not gonna vote, this topic should have never came up, eBay is the final say, NOT your poll.

 

And certainly not your uninformed conclusion.

 

Phil

 

 

 

[Gunsmoke]

I am bored so I started looking at posts outside of the coin forum. This one definitely perked up my day. I had to add my 2 cents simply because your posts annoyed the heck out of me.

 

You may be a wonderful individual, but you come across as whiney snitch. Just thought you should know.

[Joanna]

Not caring about spiderguy, I wasn't reading the original thread, but I did read Rick's original post in this thread. With no other information other than what he presented, I voted "no" to shilling and wondered why he even asked.

 

Now that I've caught up, I will say that it appears you did indeed jump to conclusions. To have determined if it was shilling, all you would have needed to do was ask the people involved "If you win, will you pay?" That's it. After all, shilling has nothing to do with people bidding in good faith, whether it's to watch an auction or to win it. Shilling is bidding without any intention of paying, just to build up the bids.

 

There are a lot of alerts on this forum about shilling, and I've even cautioned not to take every auction with zero bidders and sunglasses as a shill (I just closed an auction where a sunglass newbie put in 8 bids in a row, raising the price by a buck a bid until she finally came out on top. Had the appearance of a shill, except that I didn't know her from Eve, and when she won, she paid instantly). Most people have had experiences like this.

 

And many times friends or acquaintances will want what you are selling (your friends tend to have similar tastes as you, of course). I have a friend who I have outlawed from bidding on my auctions, simply because I'd rather give her something for free (she's a very good friend) than have her buy it. Not wanting to take my sales away, she never wants them free. So she would bid. I had to tell her not to because I didn't want her to pay, and she wouldn't NOT pay, so we finally agreed she wouldn't bid. Convoluted and nothing shill about it, but if we had no agreement and I said in a thread, "My friend is bidding on half my stuff" I'd sure want someone to ask me about it, rather than ruin my ebay rep by jumping to conclusions.

 

The guys here do a lot of dealing -- on the boards, in private and on ebay. One reason to come to these boards, for some, is the chance to find out about auctions.

 

"I have a Weenie Guy 27 9.8 up on ebay! Here's your chance, BuyerGuy!"

 

"Oh, man, I've been waiting for a 9.8 of that book! Thanks, SellerGuy!" bid bid bid

 

That's life on these forums. And if BuyerGuy doesn't pay -- just watch the flames!

 

-- Joanna

 

 

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

rickdogg: LOOK AT THE FREAKIN' POLL

 

By saying that, it would appear that you missed an important point, I'm not the one to judge who shill bids eBay decides what shell bidding IS or is NOT, so this poll proves nothing. If you're bidding on a friends' auctions with the intention of winning or hoping to win (at an insanely low price), then that is NOT shill bidding. IF you are bidding on a friend's auction to "help raise the bid" or to "add to your watch list", but NOT to "win" then I would call that shill bidding according to eBay's definition of shill bidding.

 

rickdogg: If you haven't noticed WE ARE POWERSELLERS. By you accusing me, Darth, bonds25, and Delekkerste of shill bidding is UNCALLED FOR on your part.

 

Ok Ricky, you are starting to get me angry by bringing other people into this, and I understand why you want to. I CHALLENGE YOU TO QUOTE ME WHERE I ACCUSE YOU, DARTH, BONDS25, AND DELEKKERSTE OF SHILL BIDDING. I have pieced together quotes of what has already been said by other people. You are taking me out of context either deliberately because you don't like me (you have admitted this already in the Ultimate Spider-Man post), or you are misunderstanding me. Also I would like to say that just because you are a power seller that does NOT mean jack. I've seen MANY powersellers with excessive negative feedback, so you can get off your high powerselling horse.

 

rickdogg:Yes, I made this poll to prove you wrong!

 

And by saying that you prove my comment about your attitude to be true, and that you want to drag this out rather than drop it. Well, at least I know what side of the fence you are on, and that you are willing to do ANYTHING to prove YOUR point. Where is the morality in that?

 

rickdogg: I'm not going to take the backseat and allow you to badger good board members that happen to be ebay's finest members as well.

 

Rick, I cannot help but admit that because of your attitude, I would NEVER knowingly do business with you (ready, aim,...fire back). I've hardly been "badgering" people. Is quoting eBay policy badgering? Is this damn poll badgering me? Where is the morality in that? How does the golden rule of selling go....uhhh the seller always comes first? Errr I mean...do unto others...

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

The quotes where you say I forgot to metion...came LONG AFTER the first 5 statements that I mentioned, AFTER I posted eBay's policy on shill bidding.