Anti-Nostalgia

[Drummy]

Hi all --

 

As many of you know, I've moved into collecting OA on a full-time basis. Bye-bye CGC books, hello splash pages! Anyway, I've noticed that, like many OA enthusiasts, nostalgia comprises about 70% of my impetus to buy, with the artist/page/title representing the other 30%. I collect Marvel superhero art from 1976-1979, so there's a lot to choose from, but I'm discovering how much "anti-nostalgia" dictates what I get and what I happily pass over.

 

For me, anti-nostalgia means picking up a book you read when you were a kid and remembering how much you hated the art in that issue. Marvel was always moving artists around from title to title whenever deadlines heated up, so often I'd open up the next issue of Avengers or Fantastic Four and discover that Buscema or Perez or whomever had been replaced by another artist whose talents escaped me. In fact, I was so disappointed not to see the characters the way I was used to seeing them that I actually got mad at the new artist!

 

In particular, I find that I won't buy art by Don Heck or Frank Robbins. Even though they drew several books from my youth, some of which I remember well, I also recall detesting the artwork so much (at least when compared to my favorites) that when I see the pages today I feel something akin to frustration. So instead of nostalgia fueling my desire to add to my collection, I'm overcome with anti-nostalgia and a desire never to see the offending page again.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone else feels strong feelings against pages or books or artists from your youth. This probably pertains only to collectors who buy for nostalgia's sake, but everyone's thoughts are welcome.

 

Will return to the thread later today to see what's up!

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[westform]

I agree Dan. Frank R. is a good example for me too. There was a dps from Captain America that was for sale a couple of times on ebay, but I had to pass because I just remember being so dissapointed when he took over Cap from Sal Buscema. Funny thing is, now that I look with different, older eyes, I can appreciate somewhat Frank Robbins distinctive style; and the dps was gorgeous! But, it would just bug me too much to have it staring at me every day so I had to pass.

 

I have heard the same thing from old guy collectors about Romita. They could just never forgive him for taking on the Spidey chore after Ditko left and they just can't collect or appreciate him....

[Artemaria]

Is it really anti-nostalgia or anti-art you think is bad?

 

If someone loved Ditko and never took to Romita Sr. (whom I think is still underrated, unlike Romita Jr., whom I think is overrated) then isn't it just that the artist is not to their liking?

 

When I see the names of certain artists, I am just not interested because I don't like their art. The nostalgia aspect never plays into it for me.

 

In a way, this hobby is more pure than comic collecting. While in comics you'll suffer through bad art in a fill-in issue because you like a story run, in this hobby you don't have to.

 

Here, you can even cherry pick the pages you like from a particular artist in a particular issue (depending on afforability). Unlike comics, where you take what the company produces on a given month, here, with a little patience (and a little money), you have complete control over the content of what you buy.

 

So, while I view nostalgia as a positive force guiding me to buy certain things, I haven't viewed it as a negative force driving me away from certain things. I just don't buy art from artists I don't like.

[Dick Pontoon]

I'm in the other boat: While I might buy a comic for nostalgia, especially a BA Marvel, I'd never consider an OA purchase based on anything besides artist and page.

 

In terms of artists, I have zero desire to own anything by Heck or Robbins. Not my cup of tea; I'd go as far to say "They're poopy!" Although Heck gets a bad rap, his early horror covers are amazing. I rescind my statement - one of those I would enjoy!

 

While anti-nostalgia doesn't figure in my meager OA habits is does in comic buying. There's certain books I'd like to buy, read or re-read but artists like Heck, Robbins or Perlin really dampen my enthusiasm if not kill it. It's just as disappointing now to get a book and find art by those guys as it was back then, if not more so.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Now that you mention it, I do remember that same disappointment as a kid. Sometimes the changes could be quite jarring. I think Infantino was the artist on Avengers for one issue right after the fantastic Korvac Saga.

 

But I think the nostalgia factor works the other way for me. That is, it makes a page look tremendous to me when it really isn't very good or the same artist on an issue I didn't have as a kid might not look good. Frank Robbins is a pretty good example. I don't like his art except on Invaders, the ones I had as a kid. I could go for a page of that art easily but Robbins Batman from a few years earlier? Not a chance, despite Batman being my favorite character.

 

Marc

[westform]

I think I mean anti-nostalgia, not anti art. Speaking of Robbins who I already said was making a newfound positive impression on me, I just re-read the early Invaders title with artwork by him. Y'know it's very distinctive.... and not in a bad way. Yes, his artwork hurt my eyes as a kid, but my eye was also trained in the 'house' style of Marvel's at the time.... ala John Romita. But, coming back to those issues as an adult he has a fluid, dynamic almost naive style to his panels that I can now appreciate. In fact, if he were drawing today, he would probably have a cult following....(maybe he is drawing today for all I know). Anyway, I've dogged him publically in the past, but I'm just saying maybe I was wrong, his art may not be what every kid wants to see when cracking open their favorite comic, but clearly he knew what he was doing, he doesn't seem hurried, and perhaps he was just following his own voice to create his own style...

[Kevin76]

Erik Larsen took over on Amazing Spider-Man when Mcfarlane left,then again when Mcfarlane left Spider-Man...I don't like Larsen. On the subject of Romita Jr....Why does Romita Jr,get all the cool Marvel Projects? MILLER Returns to Daredevil for a 3 issue Mini-Series!!!!....drawn by Romita Jr. Bruce Jones' Hulk is amazing raves critics....drawn by Romita Jr. Starting to think his old man as Marvel Art Director has something to do with it.

[spider9698]

Never hurts to have friends in high places....

[mrpunch0]

Also doesn't hurt that he's a good artist and a good story-teller.

[KingOfRulers]

I buy art for no other reason then liking the page. I will buy a brand new page or a Golden Age page. Neither display any sort of nostalgia or anti-nostalgia--simply a page that has everything I want in a page (characters I like, by an artist I like).

[Drummy]

I think that's a good way to go -- evaluating the art for the art's sake. For me, though, I can't shake the emotional attachment I had to certain stories and story arcs when I was a kid. What worries me a little is that my "anti-nostalgia" might keep me from appreciating those other artists -- Dan's point about appreciating Robbins more now that he's older strikes a chord for me as well.

 

I still don't like Robbins or Heck too much, I guess, but I think it's mostly because they jumped in on titles whose artists I had come to know and love as an 8-year old. It's probably time to see those pages with new eyes.

 

As always, I guess, buy what you like with what you can afford. Who cares if anti-nostalgia makes me grossly unfair? (I guess if I were a Dito fan back in the '60's, Romita would pizz me off too!)

 

Dan

[KingOfRulers]

I like all of the artists you've mentioned. I think certain artist were better suited for certain books. I think Ditko and Romita are great Spidey artists. I think Heck did a great job on Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish. A lot of people seem to like Jim Lee, which I guess would be an artist that I would be most likely to have a nostalgia for since he was the big artist when I first started getting into comics. Funny thing is, I love his work on the actual X-men characters, but otherwise don't care for him. I wonder if I'll end up having an anti-nostalgia for Ed McGuiness 10 years from now Right now I think he is TERRIBLE. But who knows, maybe I'll be buying his pieces 10 years from now (I hope not).

[snappahead]

Interesting subject. I have an opposite reaction that you have. I HATED Robbins when I was a kid and cringed any time I opened a comic to discover he'd drawn it, but now I actually like the stuff. Can't explain it. It's true for a couple other guys too. Never cared for Perez if you can believe it when I was younger..thought his art was dull. I know! Now, I can't understand why, but when I was young, I felt that way. Herb Trimpe has grown on me too. Again, can't explain why.

 

Maybe it's because I missed the 60's but, I can't figure out how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita. Ditko was good at certain things, but I never thought he was right for Spidey..sue me..

 

King, I want you take that back about McGuinness . I love Ed's work:)

 

I might have anti nostalgia for Colletta though. Still hate that guys work. Maybe the only guy who's work I can't stand. That could just be because he butchered so much Kirby art and I'm a huge Kirby fan.

 

Speaking of fill-ins, I remember Mike Mignola did a fill-in for Rob Liefeld on an early issue of X Force and I was PISSED! ..Can you imagine...being pissed when Mignola fills in for Liefeld. Mignola's another guy I like alot now, but hated back in the day.

[mrpunch0]

Speaking of fill-ins, I remember Mike Mignola did a fill-in for Rob Liefeld on an early issue of X Force and I was PISSED! ..Can you imagine...being pissed when Mignola fills in for Liefeld. Mignola's another guy I like alot now, but hated back in the day.

 

This is your one free pass. Do yourself a favor and NEVER admit this again!

[westform]

I actuallly have double reverse anti-nostalgia for Colletta! I didn't mind him as a kid. Thought Thor looked cool and even didn't mind when he inked some of Sal B's work. But, I really don't like his work now having a better appreciation for what he was doing to those poor pencils underneath.... if you doubt this in any way pick up a copy of Kirby Collector that has uninked Kirby Thor pages. Try to find the issues where the copies of the pencils was very intact. Kirby pencils on Thor was amazing! As good or better than his work on FF. Looked nothing like when Colletta was thru with them! Stare at them for awhile and it will make your jaw drop. I forget the issue #'s but one of them has Thor kinda hunched over on the cover. Whew! It's no secret Kirby did not care for Colletta, and also that fans didn't seem to mind him, but man if Sinnott, or Giacoia, or Royer had inked all those issues of Thor....... I think those would simply be the most coveted pages in our collecting world.

[Artemaria]

I actuallly have double reserve anti-nostalgia for Colletta!

 

You could start your own web site with this one.

[Mister Trent]

Maybe it's because I missed the 60's but, I can't figure out how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita. Ditko was good at certain things, but I never thought he was right for Spidey..sue me..

 

Ditko didn't just draw Spidey . . . he co-created the book.

 

Look at all the enduring Spidey villains . . . Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman, Electro, Kraven, etc, etc, . . . all of them Ditko co-creations.

 

Same goes for the cast of characters.

 

As much as the super-hero exploits of Spidey are thrilling, Peter Parker's private life is often as entertaining (if not, more so) than that of his alter-ego . . .

 

Romita Snr was a good artist, but he didn't really come up with much to compare against Ditko when he took over.

 

Aside from the Kingpin, I can't say I can recall too many popular villains that followed on from Ditko's tenure . . .

[osborn_fr]

So nobody wants Robbin's art ?

Now i understand why i won this page for $15

 

[westform]

ummm, also 'man from atlantis' had something to do with it..... seriously though, that's a pretty nifty page, and for pocket money; can't beat that!

[Artemaria]

So nobody wants Robbin's art ?

Now i understand why i won this page for $15

 

What cost more, the shipping or the art?