tec 27 auction

[stagedoorjohnny]

 

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

[greggy]

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

[stagedoorjohnny]

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

 

But according to CGC's standards, they are already accounting for a worst case scenario in getting it removed by taking it down a step and adding the notation. If I can quote the higher ups at CGC, "It is so minor that if removed, it would change the grade by one step, if at all."

[greggy]

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

 

But according to CGC's standards, they are already accounting for a worst case scenario in getting it removed by taking it down a step and adding the notation. If I can quote the higher ups at CGC, "It is so minor that if removed, it would change the grade by one step, if at all."

CGC only removes down one notch. The actual removal can leave an actual hole in the cover which would in most likelihood drop it lower than one notch.

[stagedoorjohnny]

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

 

But according to CGC's standards, they are already accounting for a worst case scenario in getting it removed by taking it down a step and adding the notation. If I can quote the higher ups at CGC, "It is so minor that if removed, it would change the grade by one step, if at all."

CGC only removes down one notch. The actual removal can leave an actual hole in the cover which would in most likelihood drop it lower than one notch.

 

But if it may leave a hole, then a PLOD should be in order, right? Blue should mean virtually no risk of that happening if a pro does it. That's how I interpret their explanation of a blue label with the"very minor" notation. Unless I'm reading the back of the label wrong.

[Shield]

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

 

Sounds like an argument you could make for *ANY* type of restoration, right?

 

...if you remove the archival tape on the spine, it'd be split in 2, and lower the universal grade...

 

 

Insert restoration technique of choice.

[Shield]

So let me get this straight. The color touch is so minor and so easily removable it is kept in the Universal label but the grade is taken down a notch. So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

Depending on the amount of colour touch, removing it may leave further damage it structurally and thus result in a lower universal grade.

 

But according to CGC's standards, they are already accounting for a worst case scenario in getting it removed by taking it down a step and adding the notation. If I can quote the higher ups at CGC, "It is so minor that if removed, it would change the grade by one step, if at all."

CGC only removes down one notch. The actual removal can leave an actual hole in the cover which would in most likelihood drop it lower than one notch.

 

But if it may leave a hole, then a PLOD should be in order, right? Blue should mean virtually no risk of that happening if a pro does it. That's how I interpret their explanation of a blue label with the"very minor" notation. Unless I'm reading the back of the label wrong.

 

Johnny, I'm 100% with you here. Couldn't agree more. I'm not necessarily against Greggy either; I think he's just trying to explain CGC's position.

Greggy: What's your opinion of the slight glue/slight CT? Should they all be purple label books?

 

My opinion is that it should. Seems "key" books can have CGC look the other way on them. Color touch by definition is restoration and so is slight amount of glue. I've seen many "non-keys" get the PLOD with the same notation: "Slight amount of CT on spine"...etc.

 

I thought this grading stuff was supposed to be 100% impartial?

 

So, here's my accessment and full opinion of CGC.

 

1. First and foremost, I'm very glad they exist. When paying a large amount of money on a book I'll always choose a CGC graded copy because of the tight grading.

 

2. When selling, sure is nice to buy a high grade unslabbed book, and receive multiples of guide once slabbed. Very cool!

 

3. Nicholas Cage/Dallas Stephens collections have no bearing to the creation of these comics nor were they a pedigree amassed by a single collector, so my opinion is they should'nt be on a CGC label.

 

4. Books with any color touch / slight glue should be considered restored books in every case, to make it completely accurate and 100 percent impartial.

 

Just my .02

[stagedoorjohnny]

I know this issue has been beaten to the ground on these boards. But if you're going to slap a blue label w/ the very minor ct or glue comment on it, that's fine by me, as long as it is sooooo minor it should be able to be removed pretty easily w/o damage if done by a pro. And that's exactly how CGC's explanation reads to me. If that's the case, why wouldn't someone have it removed? Especially if it got knocked down a quarter grade because of it? I'm real curious about this b/c I have a blue labeled book with very minor amount of glue on it. It's an expensive book ($4-5K) w/ a 9.0 grade. I was quoted around $180 to remove the glue and am contemplating if I should do it, especially if the book is truly a 9.2 if it did not have the glue. I dunno, but that is how I'm interpreting CGC's explanation.

[Bugaboo-migration]

So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

You also have to figure into this gamble that getting a $70,000+ book regraded is going to cost another $1,750 or more in grading fees.

[greggy]

So if I was the owner of this book, sent it away, and got it back with that 5.5 blue very minor color touch label, why wouldn't I have the color touch removed for $150-$200, resend to CGC, and get my book back 6.0 w/no notations, or absolute worst case scenario 5.5 w/ no notations? Isn't the upgraded label worth the couple hundred additional dollars on a book such as this???

You also have to figure into this gamble that getting a $70,000+ book regraded is going to cost $1,750 or more in grading fees.

Maximum charge is $1,000! Sigh...Bug tries to be useful but gets shot down again!

[Bugaboo-migration]

You also have to figure into this gamble that getting a $70,000+ book regraded is going to cost $1,750 or more in grading fees.

Maximum charge is $1,000! Sigh...Bug tries to be useful but gets shot down again!

Oops....forgot about that part.....but it's still a valid point that you didn't even think about.

[Thegoldenage]

Well, to answer the original posting, the final price was $69,411.00, which was where the bid stood for several days. According to my weak math skills, guide FN-on a Detective 27 is $85,250.00. That translates into the Mastronet copy selling for nearly 20% under guide (I am not sure if the final bid amount includes Mastronet's buyers premium of 15%). Either the color touch really affected the bids, or the market is softening on high ticket books.

[stagedoorjohnny]

Well, to answer the original posting, the final price was $69,411.00, which was where the bid stood for several days. According to my weak math skills, guide FN-on a Detective 27 is $85,250.00. That translates into the Mastronet copy selling for nearly 20% under guide (I am not sure if the final bid amount includes Mastronet's buyers premium of 15%). Either the color touch really affected the bids, or the market is softening on high ticket books.

 

 

I believe that does NOT include the 15% street tax.

[Thegoldenage]

Thanks. I wasn't sure.

[Aman619]

IMHO mamanook loved his comics too much to color touch them. Perhaps some of his pedigree horde came to him via John Snyder but, alas, the late 70s & 80s were a different time (Bill Sarill & S Cicconi). Clean & press was not frowned upon then.

 

I never said anything about the Mamanouker.

It was John all alone one late night that couldnt resist temptation.As I said, its a real shame they werent left alone, "warts and all" but it was a different time. More like a small private club of comic collectors than todays big business. He just got carried away.

[harveyfan323]

I wonder if CGC will abadon the purple restored label altogether in the future? It seems like if you list all restoration on the label, then you really don't need different color labels. I don't know why they haven't already done this, considering they've done many other things to help the sale prices of golden age books, most notable grading golden age books much less critically than modern books.

[Aman619]

yeah...if the label says restored, then it means CGC found restoration. Why have a different colored label? It must have sounded like a good idea in the beginning, but th epurple has taken on far too much significance, and killed those books.

[garthgantu]

Here's answer why some restored GA books get blue labels: Link

 

CGC, since before it's inception, has always stated that, at CGC's discretion, golden age comics with the most minor color touch and/or the most minor glue will be given a blue label but the very minor glue/color touch will ALWAYS be noted on the label. The comic grade will be lowered one step on the grading scale for this because the "work" done to the book is so minor that if removed, it would only change the grade by one step if at all.

The reason CGC decided to do this is that many of the high-grade pedigree Golden-Age comic books have had very minor work done to them and it was always either accepted or ignored by the buyers and sellers of these comic books. CGC could not come into the market and ignore very minor work because CGC is about full disclosure so, to be fair to both buyer and seller alike, we decided to go with the blue label, a one step down grade, and a notation about the work that was done.

 

Makes sense to me, because only books with removeable restoration can get universal blue labels.

 

...Perhaps, but not ALL books with removable resto get the blue label... it's kinda like the beasts in Animal Farm, "all are created equal, but some are more equal than others."

[garthgantu]

yeah...if the label says restored, then it means CGC found restoration. Why have a different colored label? It must have sounded like a good idea in the beginning, but th epurple has taken on far too much significance, and killed those books.

 

Bear in mind that CGC is headed in the OTHER direction: less info on the label, not more. Eventually, you book will be returned in an opaque block of lucite, with the lucite itself a different color depending on the grade the book received... there will be 24 different shades of lucite, corresponding to the 24-point system now in place... when CGC moves to the 100-point system, we'll all need Pantone Matching System color guides to determine the numeric grade of the book. Those Pantone guides will be available directly from CGC, for only $99.95 per.