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HULK 181........the most undervalued, overlooked, unapreciated key ever!

Started by COI,

84 posts in this topic

joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
The writing was very mature, as was Bolton's drawing style (it was like his Twisted Tales work transposed to the X-Men).

 

Actually, I found it to be quite the opposite, and felt they presented the illusion of actually saying something, while producing page after page of nada. Kind of like running on the spot as fast as you can.

 

Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good. Did you actually read the back-ups when the starting hitting X-Men 115 or so, and into the 120's? I bought a big lot of X-Men and got a ton of Classic X-Men tossed in. I couldn't believe the utter tripe that was contained in the back-ups, especially into the 120's.

 

Later Claremont stuff was horrible enough, but then Ann Nocenti got into the act and stunk up the joint even worse...

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
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so even though it was one of the worst written tripe you've ever had the misfortune of reading, you continued to give up your money freely to buy the monthly issue? 893whatthe.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif27_laughing.gifconfused-smiley-013.gif

 

As I stated, these Classic X-Rubbish comics came in a lot of X-Men.

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
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im just surprised you didn't rip the covers by arthur adams.

 

Some great covers by Adams on those books. Some of the best from the 80's in fact. I think the new back up stories do suffer in comparison to the truly 'classic' Byrne/Claremont stuff, but what doesn't?

 

The million dollar question..... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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I think the new back up stories do suffer in comparison to the truly 'classic' Byrne/Claremont stuff, but what doesn't?

 

I'm going to continue to defend the back-up stories. They weren't meant to be conventional superhero stories with hokey dialogue, sound effects and colossal battle scenes! To me, they were darker & more mature pieces focusing more on psychology, characterization and morality. These pieces could have easily fit in well as part of Marvel's "Epic" line or its "Bizarre Adventures" magazine, away from the typical monthly spandex pamphlets.

 

Gene

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BronzeBruce13

BronzeBruce13

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I was just busting your chops, man! grin.gif

 

As for your pre-GS1 Tales of the New X-Men idea, I'm not sure how that would work given that GS1 established that Nightcrawler was in a traveling circus in Germany, Colossus was in a Soviet collective, etc. Doesn't seem like they would have any interaction with the rest of the Marvel Universe (though they did manage to work in a pre-GS1 appearance by Storm in "X-Men: The Hidden Years").

 

There are too many X-titles out there anyway! If you're going to get Byrne and Austin back together, just put them into Uncanny X-Men and make that title readable again!

 

Gene

 

I Know? wink.gif

 

but seriously... you need some Exlax grin.gif ... think outside the comic panel! NOTHING is carved in stone in comics. Firstly, if they had made the appearances prior to GS 1 as I suggested... then the contents of GS 1 could obviously be a little different. BUT, there is certainly a way to keep it the same and STILL make a "comic believable" explanation... we talkin' comics here man.

 

stooges.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
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I think the new back up stories do suffer in comparison to the truly 'classic' Byrne/Claremont stuff, but what doesn't?

 

I guess I'm a bit more into the fundamentals of writing than most people on here, and as such, I can really see the genius of Claremont's early work, and view more clearly the utter travesty of his later efforts.

 

I don't think there has ever been a run that squeezed more juice from each and every page than the Byrne/Claremont X-Men issues, and I don't think there is anything more wasteful, unneeded or repetitious than the Classic X-Men back-up stories.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
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These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene, go pick up the Classic X-Men reprinting 120-up, read them, and then come back and hammer it out with me.

 

I absolutely guarantee you won't make it through the run.

 

And just as a final note, my initial comments on this subject related to a back-up story behind the reprint of X-Men 120, not the early ones. makepoint.gif

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BronzeBruce13

BronzeBruce13

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Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

 

Dagnabbit!*... I thought we were heading for the first Gene vs. Vince debate...

now it's fizzling fast.

sorry.gif

 

 

*co-owned trademark Pov & BB13

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greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted
Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

 

Dagnabbit!*... I thought we were heading for the first Gene vs. Vince debate...

now it's fizzling fast.

sorry.gif

 

 

*co-owned trademark Pov & BB13

How about an innagural greggy vs Bruce debate? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif
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supapimp

supapimp

Posted
Posted

And just as a final note, my initial comments on this subject related to a back-up story behind the reprint of X-Men 120, not the early ones. makepoint.gif

 

i just remember the early ones, the beautiful art by john bolton set the tone which was matched by the colouring too. the back up stories were more like stories(in depth character development) than rock em! sock em! action adventures.behead.gif

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

 

Dagnabbit!*... I thought we were heading for the first Gene vs. Vince debate...

now it's fizzling fast.

sorry.gif

 

 

*co-owned trademark Pov & BB13

How about an innagural greggy vs Bruce debate? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Should I start a thread? smirk.gif

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greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted
Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

 

Dagnabbit!*... I thought we were heading for the first Gene vs. Vince debate...

now it's fizzling fast.

sorry.gif

 

 

*co-owned trademark Pov & BB13

How about an innagural greggy vs Bruce debate? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Should I start a thread? smirk.gif

No....or you will surpass Kermit in starting the most useless threads! 893frustrated.gif
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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
Though I do agree the first few back-up stories were pretty good.

 

These are primarily what I'm referring to. I recall that the stories did not maintain that level of quality over time, leading me to eventually drop the title. Still, I did really enjoy those early back-ups.

 

Gene

 

Dagnabbit!*... I thought we were heading for the first Gene vs. Vince debate...

now it's fizzling fast.

sorry.gif

 

 

*co-owned trademark Pov & BB13

How about an innagural greggy vs Bruce debate? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Should I start a thread? smirk.gif

No....or you will surpass Kermit in starting the most useless threads! 893frustrated.gif

 

Define "useless"..... tongue.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
i just remember the early ones, the beautiful art by john bolton set the tone which was matched by the colouring too. the back up stories were more like stories(in depth character development) than rock em! sock em! action adventures.

 

But my point is that Claremont did both in the Byrne run, and didn't require 20 pages to get a point across. Remember where Wolvie thought Jean died in the battle against Magneto, or the panel when he simply rips Cyclops out of the picture, leaving Jean's image, or the scene when he first meets Mariko?

 

Those were well-conceived segments that got the point across without dragging it out for multiple pages. In many cases, only a panel or two was needed to give readers a feeling of what was going on in-between the "rock em sock em" battles.

 

Anyone can write a "deep, heartfelt, mature" story that drones on for page upon page, but it's the true geniuses that can hit all the emotional and visceral notes within the strict limitations of a 20+ page comic book, and still have it leap off the comic rack.

 

And if anyone wants a textbook example of ultra-tight writing, check out the backup Manhunter stories in Detective. Those even put Byrne and Claremont to shame.

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