So, ARE comics a decent investment?

[Foolkiller]

Even if you didn't want to apply logic and analysis, let's say you just wanted to "feel" your way about comics as an investment... there's something in your gut that should warn you about the fact the comic market has had some severe, severe dips to it, especially concerning the exact target that was the fad... for instance... valaints and number one issues... now we have CGC books 9.6 and above. I don't doubt the books are very, very valuable and more valued than in 1993... but are they worth what people today are paying for them? That's what I question, and that's the problem. GS X-Men 1 has grown steadily over the years... for a reason, and it certainly has come back to earth from the initial cgc explosion, so now there are other books that worth a ton of money in 9.8 or so that fetch huge numbers at auction. I guess the problem is that many people are optomistic about the market expanding even further and I think that it's a very dangerous mindset. You can go without the raw data, look at the examples from the past and still get a bad feeling about saying... hulk 181 has no limit to it's increase.

 

Actually, I hope that I'm wrong. It'd be nice if our hobby expanded to the point where everyone wanted to be a part of it because values just kept escalating... but no product just keeps going up, without ever coming down.

 

By the way, great avatar. You and supa have some great ones. Sport.

[ninanina]

JC, as your comments concerning the future viability of comic values are less than positive, why then are you not selling your stash of Giant Size X-Men #1 at this time? Also, while you are hanging onto your comics, you are publicly praising greggy for being the smart one and selling his hi-grades. Now, if that's the case, are you also being the smart one not selling?

 

You can't both be smart, can you?

 

Is it the buying/investing at this time that your so negative on or by your actions are you suggesting/believe that if you already have the comics, hang on to them?

 

I am asking this because your actions don't agree with what I'm reading. What am I missing?

[joe_collector]

So...I can't go back in time and buy more High Grade Marvels?

 

Why are you complaining? You are, and will ever be, the Forum Legend, and played the basic rules of investing to an absolute T.

 

All these CGC guys are trying to retroactively beat your mark, and are thus, pretenders to throne.

[joe_collector]

As for the future, who is it that is buying all the new stuff at the local comic shops?

 

Old fat guys in smelly shirts, and I wouldn't count on these "heart attacks on wheels" to provide for your retirement fund.

[greggy]

So...I can't go back in time and buy more High Grade Marvels?

 

Why are you complaining? You are, and will ever be, the Forum Legend, and played the basic rules of investing to an absolute T.

 

All these CGC guys are trying to retroactively beat your mark, and are thus, pretenders to throne.

But...I never thought of it as investing!

[joe_collector]

JC, as your comments concerning the future viability of comic values are less than positive, why then are you not selling your stash of Giant Size X-Men #1 at this time? Also, while you are hanging onto your comics, you are publicly praising greggy for being the smart one and selling his hi-grades. Now, if that's the case, are you also being the smart one not selling?

 

This is a point worth addressing, and I do admit a emotional tie to my current collection. Then again, I'm not out there laying down $10K on the latest CGC 9.8 either, so I have virtually no exposure at the prices I pay. This is my hobby and if comic prices crash tomorrow, it won't matter a bit.

 

P.S. I bought many of my New X-Men addiction for pennies in multi-packs and even splurged for some at newstand prices.

 

Greggy, on the other hand, has admitted no such attachment to his Marvel's, and has made a nice profit based on his foresight and eye for quality. I can respect that.

[joe_collector]

But...I never thought of it as investing!

 

We had this conversation before, and I am certain that at the then-depressed prices, you knew there was virtually no way you could lose. That your collection held multiples of some HG keys is evidence of this.

[MMMarvel-migration]

The main reason collectors in our age bracket think comics from the 60s & 70s were better than they are today is because we actively read them as youngsters. Oh, sweet memories of innocent youth.

Youngsters today are spending their free time & money on PS 1 games, internet access (emails or downloading "free" music) & renting dvd's. Generally NOT buying new comics.

Depending on the age group, the collector in his 20s will having fond memories of spending hours on Nintendo & want to revisit their youth by seeking mint in box games. Similiar to collecting mint in box action figure/bisques or slabbed 9.0 up silver/bronze books.

 

I am sorry, but I just can't believe it is just a bunch of us 30+ old farts re-living our youth buying all the new stuff that is coming out. I go to a lot of comic stores in the NJ/NYC area and see lots of youngsters buying the new stuff. Don't give up on the younger generation. I think there are probably a lot more than you think buying comics out there.

[MMMarvel-migration]

As for the future, who is it that is buying all the new stuff at the local comic shops?

 

Old fat guys in smelly shirts, and I wouldn't count on these "heart attacks on wheels" to provide for your retirement fund.

 

[joe_collector]

Don't give up on the younger generation. I think there are probably a lot more than you think buying comics out there.

 

If the comic stores I frequent are any indication, these "kids" are a prime market for hair-growth formula scams.

 

I'd love to see a comic book store that is "full of kids" and I hope you'll provide a picture I can send to Guiness.

[dam60]

So...I can't go back in time and buy more High Grade Marvels?

 

Why are you complaining? You are, and will ever be, the Forum Legend, and played the basic rules of investing to an absolute T.

 

All these CGC guys are trying to retroactively beat your mark, and are thus, pretenders to throne.

 

I'll second that - three cheers to Greggy!

[dam60]

JC, as your comments concerning the future viability of comic values are less than positive, why then are you not selling your stash of Giant Size X-Men #1 at this time? Also, while you are hanging onto your comics, you are publicly praising greggy for being the smart one and selling his hi-grades. Now, if that's the case, are you also being the smart one not selling?

 

This is a point worth addressing, and I do admit a emotional tie to my current collection. Then again, I'm not out there laying down $10K on the latest CGC 9.8 either, so I have virtually no exposure at the prices I pay. This is my hobby and if comic prices crash tomorrow, it won't matter a bit.

 

P.S. I bought many of my New X-Men addiction for pennies in multi-packs and even splurged for some at newstand prices.

 

Greggy, on the other hand, has admitted no such attachment to his Marvel's, and has made a nice profit based on his foresight and eye for quality. I can respect that.

 

JC - you are spending your discretionary income on your books, not investing something that I do and that I would highly recommend to all comic collectors.

 

DAM

[ninanina]

 

I am sorry, but I just can't believe it is just a bunch of us 30+ old farts re-living our youth buying all the new stuff that is coming out. I go to a lot of comic stores in the NJ/NYC area and see lots of youngsters buying the new stuff. Don't give up on the younger generation. I think there are probably a lot more than you think buying comics out there.

 

That's an interesting point. Consider the fact, when I was an 8 or 9 year old, I may have bought a few comics a year if that. Most of the comics I did read, were comics that my friends had or when I visited family who had comics lying around. Certainly I bought more as a teen-ager and when I finally was working full-time, I bought a lot more. But, I still wasn't what you would call a collector. Comics to me were still disposable reading. I became a collector when I turned 25 and walked into my 1st comic shop in the late 70's.

[Foolkiller]

As for the future, who is it that is buying all the new stuff at the local comic shops? I know I am not investing it the new stuff, but somebody is. Once again it has to be other people than the ones in this message board. That is unless some of you are buying thousands of copies of USM and hoarding them? If not, it has to be a bunch of different people, probably tens of thousands.

 

The funny thing about USM is that it was an anomoly... it came out of no where, and because of Marvel's no reprint policy added to the wild popularity of the book. The other thing is... you have a wide variety of people asking for that book, who aren't necessarily collectors of any other types of books other than moderns. For them, it's the holy grail of their collections.

 

Primarily, we're not talking about them... we're talking about the Bronze/Silver/Golden age books... I don't think people are "investing" in new stuff... people bought those modern books same as any other... most didn't buy it for the collectability but for the story. Yeah, of course people buying USM aren't all on this board... most aren't, but a lot of people buying the CGC 9.6 NM+ USM #1 aren't your 12 year old kid... it's a high grade collector or speculator who sees this book as the next big thing. I think the people who drive the back issue market aren't necessarily the same people buying new books. I think they're two separate camps... and those people buying new books like to read them for the most part, not "invest" in them... and they're buying trade paperbacks and the like, and look for low grade copies of back issues when they can. Yeah, there are a ton of major dealers who advertise in the guide... how many of their sales are high grade exclusively and not less than $100... there's a very specific niche we're talking about... people who are paying wild multiples for NM and better books. i don't think that all of comic book collecting is going to go away... that's not what I'm saying, but we're talking about investing in books... is it a good idea. And from that standpoint, we're not talking about investing $20 for fine avengers 20. There are plenty of fines out there... we're talking paying $1000 for 9.6 avengers 20... is that smart, is that a good investment... and to me it's not. Are comics a decent investment? no, not really. are they fun to collect? yes. Will comics suddenly lose all value? no... but many best copy books may not be in the same arena 10 years from now that they are in now price wise.

[Foolkiller]

I am sorry, but I just can't believe it is just a bunch of us 30+ old farts re-living our youth buying all the new stuff that is coming out. I go to a lot of comic stores in the NJ/NYC area and see lots of youngsters buying the new stuff. Don't give up on the younger generation. I think there are probably a lot more than you think buying comics out there.

 

I was going to log off... but this caught my eye... where do you see lots of youngsters... I know a lot of the stores, if not all of them, in the northern nj area... and most of the owners I've spoken to say that pitching comics to the younger generation is like trying to sell them lead paint beyond the x-men. Most of them are just into other things right now. Are there some kids buying comics... yes of course, but a lot? I've been comic stores (as has everyone here) several times in their life (maybe more times than we want to admit) and it's rare to see a store packed with kids unless it's a Magic/Gaming tournament. Hey, these same kids buying Hero Clix don't seem to be as interested in the comics themselves.

 

Let me just reiterate... I don't want to be right that the younger generation doesn't seem as interested in comics, but I just don't think you can ignore that every retailer seems to view the lack of new readers as a problem for the hobby.

[MMMarvel-migration]

I am sorry, but I just can't believe it is just a bunch of us 30+ old farts re-living our youth buying all the new stuff that is coming out. I go to a lot of comic stores in the NJ/NYC area and see lots of youngsters buying the new stuff. Don't give up on the younger generation. I think there are probably a lot more than you think buying comics out there.

 

I was going to log off... but this caught my eye... where do you see lots of youngsters

 

J&S out route 22 in northern NJ usually has kids buying books when I go in. In NYC I go to Midtown Comics which always seems to be full of people both young and old. Universal at 4 West 33rd wasn't full of kids (probably because the have a lot of adult comics with in the reach of youngsters hands). I also found this little comic book shop in Queens at 48th/Skillman that had 3 or 4 youngsters in there.

[Foolkiller]

J&S... are you sure you don't mean JC Comics? that's out on 22... the J&S I thought was in Red Bank or in Central Jersey... maybe it's a different J&S. The store on 22 I know is in N. Plainfield...

 

I've been to mid town comics quite a bit... but I don't see a lot of younger kids (under 16) there all that often... but I'm usually there only on saturday in the late afternoon when I have been there.

 

But the stores I went to when I lived in Jersey were Fat Moose, Dewey's, JC comics, Zapp, The Joker's Child and the Passaic Bookstore... and the only time I saw kids in there on a regular basis related to gaming, CCGs or now, HeroClix... almost never saw kids in there buying comics.

 

For the last three years I've been in Philly, I don't think I've seen a child in Fat Jack's... and the kids generally shopping in Showcase on South St. are on the gaming side, not looking at comics.

[aardvark88]

It's a good thing comicshops diversified into other product lines. The under 18 kids I see at the local retailers are lining up to buy action figures, Hero Clix, sportscards, Yu-gi-oh/gaming cards. Only the foreign students are actively buying manga & anime dvd's every month. Generally, I only see ppl over 20 buying a few select comic titles & Maxim mag (distributed by Diamond) each month.

[MMMarvel-migration]

J&S... are you sure you don't mean JC Comics? that's out on 22... the J&S I thought was in Red Bank or in Central Jersey... maybe it's a different J&S. The store on 22 I know is in N. Plainfield...

 

I've been to mid town comics quite a bit... but I don't see a lot of younger kids (under 16) there all that often... but I'm usually there only on saturday in the late afternoon when I have been there.

 

But the stores I went to when I lived in Jersey were Fat Moose, Dewey's, JC comics, Zapp, The Joker's Child and the Passaic Bookstore... and the only time I saw kids in there on a regular basis related to gaming, CCGs or now, HeroClix... almost never saw kids in there buying comics.

 

For the last three years I've been in Philly, I don't think I've seen a child in Fat Jack's... and the kids generally shopping in Showcase on South St. are on the gaming side, not looking at comics.

 

You are right, it is JC comics. Most of the time I was going to JC it was on a Wednesday when the new comics come out in the afternoon. I swear there are kids buying comics. Like you, I usually go to Midtown on weekends. I see lots of kids in the 13-18yo range looking at and buying comics (to me they are kids). I really didn't get into comics until I was 12 or 13 myself back in 1982-83. I remember on free comic book day last year (didn't make it this year) there were tons of kids at Midtown.

[delekkerste]

I swear there are kids buying comics. Like you, I usually go to Midtown on weekends. I see lots of kids in the 13-18yo range looking at and buying comics (to me they are kids).

 

I go to Midtown occasionally and they do seem to have a younger clientele than the other comic shops I frequent in NYC, but to say that that they are largely under-18 would be pushing it. At most of the shops I go to, the youngest customers are NYU student-types in the 18-21 year old range with maybe the occasional high schooler thrown in. By and large, though, the overwhelming majority of customers seems to be in the 21-40 year old age demographic, which is probably where most of the Forum members fall into, incidentally.

 

In any case, the anecdotal evidence has to be taken into context of a steady erosion in overall unit sales. Today, a Marvel title can sell as few as 30,000 copies and still continue to be published. 20 years ago, a title selling "only" 100,000 copies would have been a certain candidate for cancellation. There used to be a regular editorial on the comic book industry called "The Comic Books" in Warren's "Vampirella" mag - I just read one from the late-1970s where it said that some Marvel or DC title was shockingly selling a mere 100,000 or 150,000 copies (I used 100,000 to be conservative) and was surely due for cancellation. Heck, even in the late '80s and early '90s I believe a lot of titles had print runs in the high 100,000s or even 200,000s.

 

Boy, how times have changed.

 

Gene