three things I always wondered about Chuck's Church collection

[dekeuk]

OK, we all know how Chuck stumbled upon the find of a lifetime when he found the Church collection. Chuck posted his version of this historical event on the Mile High website. Here are 3 things I always wondered, maybe somone can tell me:

 

1. Chuck says the comics were stacked in piles when he found them, and each pile was 7 feet high. How is this possible without severe spine rolls and the piles toppling over? If you stack 20 new comics in a pile and leave them 6+ months, they get a nasty spine roll that never goes away. So why doesn't every Church comic have severe spine roll? And how did Church manage to stack them in 7 foot piles without the whole thing toppling over?

 

2. Chuck says Church's relatives made him remove the comics quickly. It sounds like there was certainly no time to bag and board them at the Church house. chuck describes hauling stacks of them out of the house, stacking them in the back of a van, and transporting them like that. So how did they ever stay in their pristine shape under such handling conditions? I don't see how any of them stayed in 9.6 and 9.8 shape under such moving conditions. How was this possible?

 

3. Chuck says he bought 18,000 Church comics for $1800 (10 cents each). Does anyone know what the value of the same 18,000 comics would be today if you could gather them all together again, CGC them, and auction them off? If you could average $5000 each the collection would be worth $90 million. At an average $10,000 each it's worth $180 million. Anyone have any idea what the value would be? (guess Chuck should have kept them all)

[Kent Meredith]

I would answer #1 by saying that the first pile might have been stacked against a wall, and each subsequent pile stacked tightly against the first?

 

But what the heck do I know?

 

All 3 Qs are GREAT food for thought - I feel like I'm there with Chuck, getting light-headed, and pinching myself hard to make sure it's real!

[shadroch]

3)Chuck has never said he bought 18,000 books for $1800.Unless its a recent statement. As far as I know,he's never stated what he paid for this.The ten cents and 18,000 books is a figure thats kicked around,as is 20,000 and $2,000

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

[Panzera]

I had stacked books in a pile about 2 feet high and left them in a display case for about 6 years and they had no spine roll when I finally bagged them.

[dekeuk]

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

 

No wonder all Church comics smell like KFC !!

[MrBedrock]

3)Chuck has never said he bought 18,000 books for $1800.Unless its a recent statement. As far as I know,he's never stated what he paid for this.The ten cents and 18,000 books is a figure thats kicked around,as is 20,000 and $2,000

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

Burrel Rowe told me he loaned Chuck $2000 to buy the collection.

[shadroch]

3)Chuck has never said he bought 18,000 books for $1800.Unless its a recent statement. As far as I know,he's never stated what he paid for this.The ten cents and 18,000 books is a figure thats kicked around,as is 20,000 and $2,000

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

Burrel Rowe told me he loaned Chuck $2000 to buy the collection.

 

 

That may very well be,but it doesn't mean that a)Chuck didn't have some money of his own,or might have had more than one investor and b) that Chuck ever said he paid ten cents a book.

[benz]

Did Church buy all the books new at the comic stand or not?

[MrBedrock]

3)Chuck has never said he bought 18,000 books for $1800.Unless its a recent statement. As far as I know,he's never stated what he paid for this.The ten cents and 18,000 books is a figure thats kicked around,as is 20,000 and $2,000

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

Burrel Rowe told me he loaned Chuck $2000 to buy the collection.

 

 

That may very well be,but it doesn't mean that a)Chuck didn't have some money of his own,or might have had more than one investor and b) that Chuck ever said he paid ten cents a book.

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

[esquirecomics]

Did Church buy all the books new at the comic stand or not?

 

My recollection is that a small number of the books were purchased second-hand.

[Scrooge]

1. Chuck says the comics were stacked in piles when he found them, and each pile was 7 feet high. How is this possible without severe spine rolls and the piles toppling over? If you stack 20 new comics in a pile and leave them 6+ months, they get a nasty spine roll that never goes away. So why doesn't every Church comic have severe spine roll? And how did Church manage to stack them in 7 foot piles without the whole thing toppling over?

 

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll. In addition, it distributed the weight equally which compressed the books at the bottom, in the sense sealing them hence the white pages: perfect weather condition and no air contact for those pages with weight on top.

 

2. Chuck says Church's relatives made him remove the comics quickly. It sounds like there was certainly no time to bag and board them at the Church house. chuck describes hauling stacks of them out of the house, stacking them in the back of a van, and transporting them like that. So how did they ever stay in their pristine shape under such handling conditions? I don't see how any of them stayed in 9.6 and 9.8 shape under such moving conditions. How was this possible?

 

While he transported them in the back of his van, Chuck used chicken boxes to transport the books and so the books didn't shuffle during transport.

 

In Chuck's words,

 

"For those of you who've never seen one, a chicken box is used by the shippers of frozen poultry to ship their birds from the slaughtering plant, to the grocery stores. The boxes are made of very heavy gauge waxed paper, and come with a tight sealing lid. The boxes could be had for free from grocery stores, and once they were well cleaned and deodorized, they exactly fit two parallel rows of comics. In the days before the invention of long whites, chicken boxes were a primary tool for all comics retailers, and also for many collectors. A typical chicken box held 550 newer comics, or about 300 Golden Age issues. I used the chicken box as a unit of measure because I knew I would have to carry the comics out of the basement a box at a time, and I figured that if we just kept track of the number of trips I made, we could then multiply the offer amount by the number of boxes I'd hauled, in order to reach the final total."

 

Notice the chicken boxes at bottom left with the two rows -

 

I agree that this description is scarier: "Once I started loading comics, it took me about two hours to fill my truck. I had brought about a dozen boxes, but they were no where near enough. In the end, I loaded about 10,000 comics into my van on the first day. Those books filled the floor of the van up to the back of the drivers seat, and made my old leaf springs sag to near breaking." but with the boxes and slow driving it can be done.

[Kent Meredith]

Mark's recollection is correct - a hundred or so.

[TheShadowKnows]

From what I remember several other dealers were offered the books but didnt want to travel.I think there was more than 1 invester.Payment was to be repaid at book value of the lenders favorite books,or what he could sell.I remember talking to a virgina dealer and saying 2.5 to 5 times book is crazy.

[shadroch]

 

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

 

 

Where and when did he ever say that?I've heard of several people who claimed to have loaned Chuck money for this.

[MrBedrock]

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

 

 

Where and when did he ever say that?I've heard of several people who claimed to have loaned Chuck money for this.

 

I am telling you, as someone who was there, and as someone who has talked to Chuck about it many times. I worked for Burrel Rowe. Burrel loaned Chuck $2K to buy the books. Chuck bought the books. Burrel was the first to buy books out of the collection from Chuck. After that Bruce Hamilton bought books. Then the Carters. Then Chuck hit shows.

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

[dekeuk]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

[Aman619]

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

 

 

Where and when did he ever say that?I've heard of several people who claimed to have loaned Chuck money for this.

 

I am telling you, as someone who was there, and as someone who has talked to Chuck about it many times. I worked for Burrel Rowe. Burrel loaned Chuck $2K to buy the books. Chuck bought the books. Burrel was the first to buy books out of the collection from Chuck. After that Bruce Hamilton bought books. Then the Carters. Then Chuck hit shows.

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

 

glad youre here. we have been over this numerous times, parsing Chucks Tales from the database articles looking for what really happened...seeking some truth in between the bull=spoon. Yours is the first eyewitness reports weve heard here. thanx

[shadroch]

Are you saying that Chuck himself has told you that he paid ten cents a book? It's a simple yes or no answer. If the answer is yes,thats fantastic as you are solving one of comicdoms greatest mysterys.

[FourthWorld]

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

 

 

Where and when did he ever say that?I've heard of several people who claimed to have loaned Chuck money for this.

 

I am telling you, as someone who was there, and as someone who has talked to Chuck about it many times. I worked for Burrel Rowe. Burrel loaned Chuck $2K to buy the books. Chuck bought the books. Burrel was the first to buy books out of the collection from Chuck. After that Bruce Hamilton bought books. Then the Carters. Then Chuck hit shows.

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

 

glad youre here. we have been over this numerous times, parsing Chucks Tales from the database articles looking for what really happened...seeking some truth in between the bull=spoon. Yours is the first eyewitness reports weve heard here. thanx Aman, as I understand it Burrel got OUT of comics long ago...supposedly over some bad deals with a few dealers....do you know what happened, or what it was all about?

[esquirecomics]

 

Or it could mean that he paid $2000 for the collection.

He only had one investor.

He said he paid ten cents a book.

Any other questions?

 

 

Where and when did he ever say that?I've heard of several people who claimed to have loaned Chuck money for this.

 

I am telling you, as someone who was there, and as someone who has talked to Chuck about it many times. I worked for Burrel Rowe. Burrel loaned Chuck $2K to buy the books. Chuck bought the books. Burrel was the first to buy books out of the collection from Chuck. After that Bruce Hamilton bought books. Then the Carters. Then Chuck hit shows.

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

 

Man, you are old.