ComicLink charging illegal fees

[BachelorOfComix]

BTW, I require a $2.00 admin fee for viewing this message, and I'm tracking IPs.

You take paypal?

[joe_collector]

BTW, I require a $2.00 admin fee for viewing this message, and I'm tracking IPs.

You take paypal?

 

Don't get over eager. I'll be mass mailing the bills out tomorrow.

[murph0]

Here's hoping you don't write that letter, otherwise I guess I'll just have to pass on buying books through Comiclink. Well, that is, unless I find 1,000 dollars in cash lying around my house..

It's a convience to the buyer to allow a payment via CC, if the buyer finds it to be offensive, it'll likely be gone and then we can all figure out a way to pay via money order.

You say some people don't charge for CC? That's BS, it's either part of the shipping or part of the purchase price. Either in surcharges or built-into the price, you're paying for the service.

 

Brian

[Tomega]

Here's hoping you don't write that letter, otherwise I guess I'll just have to pass on buying books through Comiclink. Well, that is, unless I find 1,000 dollars in cash lying around my house..

It's a convience to the buyer to allow a payment via CC, if the buyer finds it to be offensive, it'll likely be gone and then we can all figure out a way to pay via money order.

 

Brian

 

Give me a break, you are being ridiculous. First of all - its not offensive , its the law, end of story. Do you routinely break laws that you think are "offensive?" I am going to indeed follow through on this, I am looking to spend a lot more then $1000 and it is not fair that I have to drop and extra $250 for fees because I do not have the total available cash. Take that 3%, plus tax, plus shipping and handling - I end up paying an extra $1000. If you really had to have that $1000 comic from the seller, there are plenty of money order services not to mention cash advances on CC ; so cry me a river.

 

You say some people don't charge for CC? That's BS, it's either part of the shipping or part of the purchase price. Either in surcharges or built-into the price, you're paying for the service.

 

Where did I say that some people do not charge for CC? Please show that in my posts. Now that you mention it - no everyone does not charge for cc use. Good merchants realize that it is part of doing business and that it actually PROMOTES business. If some merchants build it into the price then everyone is paying for it - not just the people using credit cards.

 

Tom

[murph0]

So b/c it's illegal in some states, but not all.. I should just treat it like it's the word of "God"? Sorry, maybe if it became universally accepted but as it is, I live in Iowa so as far as I know we don't have that state law.

So are you saying Josh should take more money out of the consignors.. perhaps tack on another 3 percent to the sellers? In essence you don't care where it goes as long as you can pay by Credit Card and not pay anything more for the PRIVLEGE to do so?

I've paid 3 percent on Comiclink for years, does it suck that you have to pay the 3 percent? Yes. Do I think it's worth it in the long run to just suck it up and purchase the HTF book that I would be buying from CL? I think so. IMO you have to measure the pro's and con's of the way it is and then go from there. If it's not worth it to you to pay the 3 percent, look elsewhere. You aren't being forced to buy the book from Comiclink..?

Also, in your earlier analogy you mention it's not fair you should pay an additional 250 dollars for using your credit card. Then later on you tell me it's fair for people who DON'T purchase with their credit card to have to pay the built-in fees associated with those who DO use credit cards??

 

Brian

[stynxno]

So b/c it's illegal in some states, but not all.. I should just treat it like it's the word of "God"? Sorry, maybe if it became universally accepted but as it is, I live in Iowa so as far as I know we don't have that state law.

 

It doesn't matter where you live, it's where the business is based or where it has its papers filed. If the business is based in a state that says you cannot force your customers to pay the credit card fees, then it is illegal for the business to advertise that.

 

So are you saying Josh should take more money out of the consignors.. perhaps tack on another 3 percent to the sellers? In essence you don't care where it goes as long as you can pay by Credit Card and not pay anything more for the PRIVLEGE to do so?

 

That's the merchant's problem. If a merchant is going to accept credit cards, then they have to pay the fees. Merchants deal with this all the time and usually build the fees in their prices. It's not that the customer has the privledge to use a credit card, the merchant also has the privledge of accepting the credit card as payment. If a merchant doesn't want to accept credit card, then that's their business decision. However, a customer also has a choice about how they want to spend their money as well and they can chose to only go to a place that accepts credit cards.

 

You aren't being forced to buy the book from Comiclink..?

 

Bingo. You can choose to buy from comiclink but if Comiclink is violating the law, then they're violating the law.

 

Then later on you tell me it's fair for people who DON'T purchase with their credit card to have to pay the built-in fees associated with those who DO use credit cards??

 

Yes it is. When you're dealing with goods and pricing, the concept of "fair" is a moot point. A merchant allows credit card purchases because he believes that they will further his business and give him more overall business, increasing his revenues and profits in the long run. If a merchant then raises his prices to cover these transactions, then the customer can decided whether to buy their or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

It's not that the customer has the privledge to use a credit card, the merchant also has the privledge of accepting the credit card as payment.

 

Excellent point, and few people understand that CC companies can divest businesses of their priviledges in a NY minute.

[drdonaldblake]

hey

 

i live in australia and yes i am pissed off at having to pay the 4% surcharge when using my CC.

 

i didnt realise it was illegal in NY to charge a surcharge for using CC.

 

its pathetic how we have to eat nathansons costs, im not going to do it anymore

 

bob storms or metroplis never added a CC surcharge

[OldGuy]

You say some people don't charge for CC? That's BS, it's either part of the shipping or part of the purchase price. Either in surcharges or built-into the price, you're paying for the service.

 

I don't charge for CC. I charge exact shipping and the purchase price is whatever the auction ends at. I pay the Paypal fee as well as the Ebay fees, the customer (auction winner) doesn't see any of those charges. It's the price of doing business.

[CaptainBackfire]

I recently bought a book from Pacific Comic Exchange, and they charged me a 3% CC surcharge as well. It was only a $100 book so I was only out $3, but that 3% can make you think twice about big ticket books.

[fantastic_four]

I can give you a pretty good idea of what Josh will do if you report him--he'll remove credit card payments as an option and instead promote "BidPay" payments if you want to use a credit card. This means that you'll either have to pass on the books you want, or you'll have to pay even more to get them and go through an extra 5 minutes to pay via the BidPay site to boot.

 

I'm not advocating this perspective, but many sellers of high-grade vintage comics think that they have the leverage to not have to play by the same rules as traditional merchants. In many cases, they've simply got you bent over because they know that you probably can't find their products anywhere else. The rarest and most popular stuff never even gets traded publicly because it's in such demand...this isn't an aspect of vintage collecting that I like at all but it's one that I understand and am forced to live with.

[Tomega]

So b/c it's illegal in some states, but not all.. I should just treat it like it's the word of "God"? Sorry, maybe if it became universally accepted but as it is, I live in Iowa so as far as I know we don't have that state law.

So are you saying Josh should take more money out of the consignors.. perhaps tack on another 3 percent to the sellers? In essence you don't care where it goes as long as you can pay by Credit Card and not pay anything more for the PRIVLEGE to do so?

I've paid 3 percent on Comiclink for years, does it suck that you have to pay the 3 percent? Yes. Do I think it's worth it in the long run to just suck it up and purchase the HTF book that I would be buying from CL? I think so. IMO you have to measure the pro's and con's of the way it is and then go from there. If it's not worth it to you to pay the 3 percent, look elsewhere. You aren't being forced to buy the book from Comiclink..?

Also, in your earlier analogy you mention it's not fair you should pay an additional 250 dollars for using your credit card. Then later on you tell me it's fair for people who DON'T purchase with their credit card to have to pay the built-in fees associated with those who DO use credit cards??

 

Brian

 

Word of God?? Hehe. The law is the law is the law. It looks like the point is lost to you but it is really moot since we will not agree. IT IS ILLEGAL. Bottom line. In Iowa , maybe not- but here it is. There are plenty of reputable dealers who do not charge for hard to find books - Metropolis and Highgradecomics for example. If you had a choice to buy the same book for about the same price ( which comiclink and those others I mentioned are pretty close) - which would you choose? Blazing Bob and Comiclink have a ASM 29 9.4 for what would probably sell for the same price ( Bob's list price is $250 cheaper) but after fees - Bob's price would lower. Who would you choose? Discounting Comiclinks illegal practice- he is probably losing business for that very same reason. Credit cards are not a privilege bestowed upon you by a vendor - it is exactly the opposite. Do I think Comiclink is a bad, unscrupulous dealer? Absolutely not. Is his business practice in this area bad and illegal - yes. It is that reason I will not put in anymore bids with Comiclink. I typically spend 15K to 20K a year on back issues - how much is that 3% worth to comiclink to lose a few more customers like myself? Add that up over a few years and it becomes significant. It is just bad business.

 

Tom

[Kevin Boyd]

Sellers should NEVER make statements like Josh has about making the buyer pay a surcharge for credit card fees.

 

I've repped a guy who won't eat the credit card fees on his items, as he doesn't feel he needs to lose money because the buyer wants to pay by credit card. He had me add bits of information to my auctions about CC (like Josh has) and asked people to pay additional costs for credit card transactions. I hated doing it, and I hated the reactions that would get from buyers.

 

It sparks such a fundamentally negative reaction from potential buyers that it hurts the seller in the long run far more than the small % they lose on each transaction where the buyer pays with credit card.

 

In the end, I told him I wanted a higher % of the final value fee and I upped my rate an additional 3% to cover the credit card fees. I lose out when a person pays by credit card, and occasionally I will make an extra 3% if the person pays by money order, but at least it's not a hassle I have to deal with any longer.

 

I don't want to argue the semantics of credit card usage, but the fees are entirely in the favor of the buyer.

 

Now, as a private person who is not a business, if I sell on e-bay and don't accept credit cards then chances are less likely that I will sell the item. As one fellow put it "either you accept credit cards or the buyer will find someone else who will". I agree with that statement entirely. They will.

 

A lot of buyers want the privilege of buying with their credit card. So in order to be competitive I feel that I have to consider accepting credit cards, and Paypal is really my only option because I sure as heck am not setting up an account with VISA or MasterCard to accept payments. So I automatically lose the 2-3% to Paypal on top of the additional fees that I have to pay to e-bay for listing the item in the first place, so eventually you kind of resent the fact that the companies are taking a % of your sale and you have no choice about it.

 

But, as many of you have pointed out, that's the cost of doing business. As a seller, you can only adjust your minimum prices accordingly. Now that ends up being a burn for the guy that pays by money order or cash, as he ends up having to pay more than he should because the prices have been adjusted to compensate for money lost to the credit card companies... but that's the price for having to deal with credit card companies.

 

Kev

[joe_collector]

There are really two legal choices available to dealers/sellers:

 

1) Accept payments via credit card and understand that you will likely make more than enough in extra/higher sales than the CC charges amount to.

 

2) Don't accept credit cards and hope your product line is enticing enough to make up for the potential shortfall.

 

What I despise are the "eat my cake and have it too" sellers who love the higher $$$ that credit card sales bring, but act like spoiled brats and foist the charges onto the customer.

 

It's like that guy who's selling each of his ASM CGC issues twice.

[Kevin Boyd]

 

I agree, the seller should just shut up and either take credit cards or not.

 

I can appreciate that a seller may not like it, but they shouldn't be taking it out on the buyer. That's the way the system has been approved and designed, their only recourse is to complain to the credit card companies and to their local politicians.

 

Kev

[blazingbob]

I remember posting about all of the costs associated with being a seller, Trade Show or ebay listing fees, advertising, hosting of website, credit card surcharges, mylars/boards, gas, taxes etc. It's amazing that buyers allow sellers to make any money at all. I am not defending having buyers pay the 3% surcharge but on large purchases it cuts into your profit margin. Based on comiclinks 10% profit margin - 3% = 7% before taxes. Let's assume a 33% tax bracket and Josh is raking in a 3-4% profit margin. Sounds like a pretty hefty margin if you ask me.

 

You have the choice to not buy the book, the option is his to eat or not eat the surcharge.

 

 

[murph0]

Simply put, it's illegal WHERE YOU LIVE. Not where I am. You tell me I should follow the law, yet you miss the simple point that it's NOT ILLEGAL IN IOWA.

I completely agree with what FF said, if you get rid of Paypal on Comiclink you'll just be forced to use BidPay or not buy at all. Isn't Bidpay 5 plus 2.25 percent? Guess you have to decide which is the lesser of 2 evils, Bidpay or Paypal..

 

Brian

[BestOf7-migration]

Dear Valued Clients,

For many years, ComicLink has provided services that are unique to the industry. Because of our commitment to keeping costs down for you, our valued clients, we work on a very small profit margin. Although much time is spent screening out misgraded books for buyers, we do not charge a buyer's premium, grading verification fees or escrow fees; likewise, there are no membership or other miscellaneous fees. Unfortunately, however, we cannot continue to absorb credit card processing fees if we are to maintain the high quality of service that we provide to our clients. Please be aware that ComicLink is not profiting from the surcharges and that we are absolutely committed to enhancing the quality of our service while keeping the costs down for you, our valued clients.

 

 

Sincerely,

Joshua Nathanson

ComicLink President/CEO

 

 

I've heard more lucid explanations for price increases made by retailers with high theft rates. I also don't agree with the perspective that if Josh is reported, he will eliminate credit card payments altogether. In the long run, that will hurt his business far more than it will affect the consumer.

[Kevin Boyd]

Bob, believe me, I completely understand.

 

But I think that asking the buyer to cover the credit card surchage is equivalent to the seller asking to please be publicly lynched. It's bad for business, whether it's legal or not, as people get their backs up and start spreading the word on forums such as this.

 

Josh may trying to be honest with his clients by telling him that the profit margins are too small for him to continue taking credit cards but by telling them that he will charge them for it if they want to pay by CC is a major blunder and bad PR.

 

If anything, he should be saying he doesn't take credit cards and here's why. If the buyer really wants to pay by credit card then they can offer to cover those surcharges but the choice should be up to them, really.

 

Kev

[BestOf7-migration]

If anything, he should be saying he doesn't take credit cards and here's why. If the buyer really wants to pay by credit card then they can offer to cover those surcharges but the choice should be up to them, really.

 

Even then, you would be treading dangerous waters. It will be a matter of time before someone reports your misconduct.