Lirion

Nice book!!! I think I remember seeing a 1.5 signed by Stan Lee on ebay the other day. Maybe that seller would be interested in trading if it was something you were interested in. (Note: "That seller" is not me, nor anyone I know.)

Which has been my point in most of my comments in the thread. Before even getting to the integrity of their grades, that the books received a blue label versus a green to me is a bigger issue since it's something that should happen before the book is graded. Book comes in, grader gives a quick look and notices the multiple staples and acetate cover, investigates if Marvel released an acetate cover version by Crain, determines they did not, checks the box for green label with note of "PRINTED ACETATE COVER STAPLED TO BOOK; 2 ADDITIONAL STAPLES", and then continues on with grading. That the book past the "is it legit" stage to continue grading with a blue label is what baffles me.

I was relying on what someone else had done/mentioned and figured it was worth a try. The person had said that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and I didn't know how otherwise to make the request. It never hurts to ask...via sticky note or otherwise...as long as you are prepared to be told no.

Maybe it's about the grade to some, but I didn't get past the label color to get to the grade based on my example of how I would understand the grading process to be. Seeing such an obvious "flaw" in the addition of the acetate cover and additional staples to me precedes the grade because it should have been flagged right there. You send a book in that has a signature on the cover that was witnessed by CGC and it will be flagged before the grading begins. Please note that I do believe that the apparent "pay for grade" is a problem (which is why I added the bit about adding an asterisk next to the grade and note on the label as it being a promotional thing and not an actual grade). With me being a process driven person, the failure at CGC for this book happened before the grading even began at the lack of taking the added cover into consideration. Completely dismissing it is the first point of failure which is why I stand by my opinion that it is not 100% about the grade. While I, like many of the folk here, are going to be questioning every graded book they have and see, they should be questioning label assignment too. I have a Green Label book (Batman Harley Quinn, Alex Ross cover) that is signed by Aaron Sowd. Typical store/con signing...wait in line, say how much I love the art and that I'm a fan, typical 'Thank you. I appreciate hearing that. Have a great rest of your day.' reply and handing my book back to me signed. I decided last year to have it graded to be a wall hanger. Added a sticky note asking that it be graded for the book itself and to count the signature as a "flaw" and give it a blue label (Why? I read stuff on the forums that blue with a lower grade is preferable to a green with a higher grade and being new to all of this I wanted the blue label). It came back as green. I'm bringing this up because while my note was discarded/ignored, the graders saw the "non-cgc witnessed" signature and immediately went green label. Back to the UF4 book...CGC should have, first and foremost saw the cover, realized it wasn't legit from the distributor and flagged it green before any grading occurred. They didn't and thus a failure point before grading even began which is why I am not on board with the 100% grading thing. It's being dismissive of the first and most obvious thing most people see....label color and what it means. I see any label color other than Blue or Yellow and I immediately scrutinize the book and it's grade. I see Blue and I'm not doing much more of anything unless it's trying to determine why a book received that certain grade if it's not really high or really low. Side note: I have a Spider-Man #1 McFarlane black/silver still in bag that won't ever be graded due to me getting McFarlane's signature at a con many years ago (before COAs and cell phone cameras) and he actually signed it on the bag which he apparently doesn't do anymore. CGC won't grade it in the bag so there's no point (not sending it to the other guy either, same bag reason.) It's in an Ultra Pro magnetic on my wall.

I disagree that it's "100% the grade". It's not only the grade, but also the alteration done not by the publisher, but a store owner. Sure, the grade aspect can hold a bit more weight, but it's not just the grade and it's also the color of the label. The very first thing that would have been looked at by the certification company is the modification to the book. Before grading was even done, the graders would have noticed the acetate cover and flagged the book with a different color label and then proceeded to grade it. Then we get to the additional staples since that's directly tied to the additional cover which would drop the grade depending on the label color (as it's my understanding that a Green label would allow the books to be graded ignoring the addition of the acetate cover and staples.) Call it 60/40 for grade/label color. Book arrives to grader. Grader looks at book and notices extra staples and the acetate cover. Grader researches database and finds no acetate cover variant. Grader checks box for Green Label Grader proceeds to grade book. Grader completes grading and sends to next grader. Books arrive to second grader. Next grader repeats steps 2-6. Next grader sends to final grader. Final grader reviews everything and the grade is assigned. Book is sent to imaging/slabbing/whatever. That's my understanding of how the grading process is conducted and as should have been applied to these specific books. Additionally, if these were indeed graded (and slabbed?) at the show, were there more than one grader since that's something that I thought CGC did...more than one person looks at and grades each book that is. Either way, there's an obvious failure in consistency, or like everyone seems to agree on, Black Flag paid for specific grades. If that is indeed true, the books should essentially include an asterisk 10*, 9.9*, 9.8*... in which the back of the label (and a notation in the registry/census) would include something like "10* - *Book grade is unofficial as part of a promotion and does not indicate true grade of book." I believe this would be important for books like this (on the off chance it happens again), while not necessary for the "invisible" book since that's obviously a gimmick (though for consistency sake, it should have the same notation because we have to put "caution hot" on hot things.) Again, my opinion/thoughts.

As someone new to having books graded and such and after doing a bunch of "homework" to ultimately choose CGC, I agree with you. I think that everyone agrees. It's not the grade so much (other than what is most likely a couple of bought 10/9.9 grades), but the Blue Label. Grade the books however they grade out, if that's truly a 9.8 then great!, but CGC should give it a Green label along with the grade.

Not going to promote competitors, but as I'm looking at a small stack of books I want to have graded, I am considering alternatives at this point. Those alternatives may be using another service, or simply buying a bunch of Ultra magnetic cases and skipping the grading all together. The more I read in the thread and/or the lack of integrity from CGC, the more I'm rethinking grading and slabbing. I'm new to this all in the past year, and I'm already developing a sour taste

But did CGC witness the artist creation of the cover? If I have a COA for a signature from a book I buy signed directly from an artist (we'll use Campbell for example) and I send it in for grading, it gets a green label and a full caps notation of "NAME WRITTEN ON COVER IN MARKER". By that logic alone, this should have a green label and "ACETATE COVER ADDED BY 3RD PARTY" or some such. Additionally, the artist may have created it, but essentially "a customer" attached the cover causing the non-manufactured alteration.

So if open a comic book store, buy 1000 copies of the same book, 1000 sheets of acetate, staple the acetate sheets to the book, and scribble in marker on the acetate before sending the books in for grading, they will be graded as if there is nothing wrong? It will simply be marked as "acetate cover"? That's what happened to the UF4. It is an "aftermarket cover" and not part of the manufacturing process. If I buy a truck, install a 3rd party lift kit, exhaust, etc. to it and something goes wrong while in the warranty period for the vehicle, the warranty won't cover those modifications OR any damage caused by those modifications because they are 3rd party modifications and/or not installed by the OEM as part of the manufacturing process. The acetate cover is a 3rd party modification not installed at time of manufacturing which by definition becomes an "aftermarket" part. There's so much wrong with this it's not funny. Personally, I'm okay with the process, even the notation of the "acetate cover". What I'm not okay with is that it gets a blue label. If I have a book that has come apart and I carefully restaple it (doing my best to line everything up perfectly), I get a purple label because it's gone through some "restoration". Or if my book is missing a cover and I find a donor book with a cover that I carefully attach to the book, purple label. "Universal Label - Blue This label is given to collectibles that are simply the grade as marked, with no qualifiers or special considerations." As supposed "experts" in the field and the "gold standard" of grading, even you all must see that a comic book store owner (or anyone other than a qualified professional printer, or even distributer) is not part of the "manufacturing process" stated in the explanation and as such, them adding the acetate cover indeed would be a "qualifier" and is being given "special consideration."

Not yet

Without going to UPS and asking them to find my parcel, I cannot. I just sent them back for reholdering. Sadly, I'm becoming all to familiar with the return process for damaged holders. This one was bad since it was nearly half of my books had holder issues. The worst one I've encountered thus far was a book that needed to be sent back multiple times due to holder scuffs/scratches.

Thanks all for replying. My take is that it's not a new holder/redesign, but one that already exists and is for thicker books and ultimately a QC issue combined with possible laziness (not wanting to get more holders.) Even worse is that all of them have scuffs or scratches too adding to the "QC" issue

I agree in part, but a go-kart track and a trampoline park (even a haunted house) is quite a bit different in that you have much more control. Those companies can't control if you decide to drive the go-kart off the track and into a building. Your comic books are entrusted to CGC and then the person signing them to which CGC can take every precaution to ensure to the best of their ability that nothing happens to your books. And thinking on the trampoline thing, (same for the go-kart) I'm pretty sure that injury due to equipment malfunction isn't covered by the waiver. There have been several amusement parks that have been successfully sued for negligence due to their rides malfunctioning (which when buying a ticket, you are agreeing to the terms of the park), and trampoline parks, etc. Automobile companies have been sued for people doing things that people agree not to do (clicking the "I will keep my hands on the steering wheel and be alert" waiver when using Tesla's incorrectly named 'Autopilot' feature and then jumping in the back seat, reading a book, taking a nap, etc.) and it's hit or miss which way the lawsuit ends up going.

New to graded comics and have sent several the past year to CGC. Just moments ago I received an order I sent that included 12 books for grading. All in all, happy with the grades, not so happy about the condition of the holders. I'm aware of how to handle getting them reholdered and all, but my question is about holder thickness. Of the 12 books, 5 came back in thicker holders (oddly enough, all 5 are blemished in some manner). They were all sent in for grading at the same time, they're all normal sized books (no trade paperback types), and 3 of them are the same title/issue as a 4th that came back in the standard holder (left in the image). Does anyone know if CGC changed their case design? I do have an older book in my collection that has a different holder than the one on the left (with the top "spine" label being on the outside of the case) so I'm confident in assuming the holders have changed design from time to time. Odd that part of my order is in one holder style and the other part in a different holder (including the same book just with different covers). Anyone know anything about this? Thanks.