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cloudofwit
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Posts posted by cloudofwit
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I still want to know if Boston Corbett bought the 10.0?
If Boston Corbett truly believed everything he wrote (see his post below), then he absolutely *should* have been the one to pony up for the 10.0 when it hit the market.
But I'm going to guess that he's since...learned a lesson.
A lesson that he's taught everyone who's read this thread. 
Not that Copper/modern 9.9s are a terrible bet to remain one-of-a-kind in the census-- that's something he had to learn, we all already knew that-- but that blatant displays of hubris on a message board aren't forgotten. Ever. In the interest of history, Boston Corbett's legendary "lesson":
I have a few questions for our board appointed economics professors (I play one at the local University in real life, by the way). What is the comic worth if...1. There was at least one other person willing to pay $12,350 on the eve of the auction? ANSWER: $12,350 (to that other person, at least on that particular day). That's not including the other bidders who dropped out before reaching this number. And, interestingly, the buyer (me) already had offers from colleagues who collect high grade books for a significant "return" on my "investment." Go figure.
2. What is it worth to people who find ZERO intrinsic value in this particular issue in this particular grade? ANSWER: $0 Thus, I will likely not attempt to sell any of my high grade comics to members of this board. For instance, G.I. Joe issue #21, even if a 9.9 pops up, is still worth crapola, and I will never ever own a copy. Why? It has absolutley ZERO intrinsic value for me (and G.I. Joe really really does suck donkey ballz).
3. In the comic book industry, can someone please intelligently explain the theory of "Exponential Value Theory"? HINT: The difference in value between .5 and 1.5 is less than 1.5 and 1.8... The difference in value between a 9.6 and a 9.4 is greater than a 9.4 and a 9.2. For an example, just look at the price of Tales of Suspense #39 in 9.0 and 9.2... and then look at the prices between 9.2 and 9.4. Other examples...
EXAMPLE A: Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 7.0 sells for $69. There is no significant increase in value until you hit the 9.4 range when it's worth a few hundred bucks. However, Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 9.6 sells for $3,000. And the single 9.8? Well, it sells for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book when (if) it ever comes up for sale (I won't be selling it any time soon).
EXAMPLE B: Everyone on the board seems to be aware of Incredible Hulk #181. A CGC 9.4 sells for $3,000, a 9.6 sells for $5,000, a 9.8 for $15,000 ($25,000 on a good good day), and a 9.9, again, for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book for when (if) it ever comes up for sale.
EXAMPLE C: NEW MUTANTS 87 in 9.8 sells for $125 to $150. 9.9 Sold for $3,500 (i.e., an ungodly amount of money that the winner happened to be able to afford when he stumbled across the auction).
EXAMPLE D: Iron First #14 sells for $500 in 9.4, $800 in 9.6, and $2500 in 9.8 (I was lucky and snagged a copy at $2,100 -- am I lucky for getting it on the cheap, $400 below FMV, or stupid for not donating the money to poor starving children in Africa? It would pay for 200+ manual laborers in Kenya, by the way). If a 9.9 ever pops up, Good Lord, you'd better be Pablo Escobar to have a prayer of owning the book -- you need to be rich and willing to kill to get it.
EXAMPLE E: New Mutants 98. 9.6 sells for the same price as your garden variety "Charmin," 9.8 sells for $200 to $250, and 9.9? Yes, whatever ungodly amount of money, blah, blah, blah.
THIS is the lesson that should be discussed. Comics are worth more (significantly more) as their condition increases. How much a book increases in value depends on: individual taste x popularity/demand for a particular issue x scarcity of the issue x popularity of the character x key "event" in an issue x CGC grade (PGX and other company's -- because of their lack of discipline -- doesn't count, unfortunately) x scarcity of CGC grade x luck (knowing of the auction, being in the country to bid for the auction, when other people are NOT aware of the auction, etc.) x [insert whatever variable I'm missing here, please]. Good luck figuring the math out. Please email me when you have.
The idea of "pressing," getting screwed, spending too much, etc. is irrelevant. The "possibilities" of how/why this book is no different from 9.8s is moot. Indeed, outside of the case, it's worthless and I would be a complete fool for cracking it open. For starters, I'd instantly be out $12,500. But, thankfully it's still in the case and graded by CGC. CGC, while not perfect, is perfectly objective. At some point, on some day, three CGC employees agreed this book deserves a 9.9 and they assiged this particular book the grade 9.9, and they did not give this grade to any of the previous 9.8s. Yes, the "label" makes the value and not the book itself. Why? Because it's not me, Moose, Tommy Boy, Ricky, The Sperminator, or any other "board" member assigning the grade after we've "pressed" the out of the book. It's CGC, the industry bible. Is the grade a mistake? Maybe. Fluke? Perhaps. Will other high grade books "come forward?" Probably. But even with others -- or even a perfect 10 -- the odds of landing this issue, in this objectively graded condition by industry experts who are presently recognized as "The Authority" on comic book condition, is astronomically remote. The only difference would be that now someone else would have another extremely rare -- and valuable -- high grade comic.
The lessons for the high grade collector? 1) Exponential Value Theory means that the price of the "one grade below" has NOTHING to do with the price of the book "one grade above." 2) Valuing a comic is a complicated process that consists of many many variables and you'd better be aware of them before you buy (or sell). 3) ANYONE spending more than cover price on a comic is spending more money than the average Kenyan earns in a day. And 4) if you find a super high grade "popular" book with few others listed on the CGC census, act immediately, or lose the book (and be prepared to give your left nut for the book you want -- I, by the way, am now sans ballz).
Thus endeth the lesson.
FYI... Pedigree cashed the check today.
Speaking of people not forgetting folks' histories, the seller--"Pedigree"--added a little coin to his empire when the professor's check was duly cashed.
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MARVEL TALES #98 (1978) REPRINTS KEY AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #121 DEATH OF GWEN STACY $78.00
It the buyer did not mistake what he was buying.....that's crazy! Glad I have #1-110, I would hate spending big money on reprints. You need not worry. You own everything.
This book guides for about 4 bucks in the current Overstreet. I could see it going for double to triple Guide in VF because of movie mayhem...but over 20 times Guide?
What movie mayhem? Also, "guide" is outdated the minute it's published. I love shops that go by Overstreet.
Even negative publicity is publicity, re: the movie exposure.
I used the guide as a guide, as a baseline. I didn't make grand claims for it...but at the same time, I think it can't be so easily thrown under the bus, as many in the Internet age would have it.
As for the love you have for shops going by Overstreet, is it a selective love? What about when it's, say, full Guide for 3rd tier title, mid-grade Bronze? You love that, right?
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In nearly 7 years here, I don't think I've EVER seen what just went down in that sales thread. And neither of the parties is the poor seller/creator of the thread!
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MARVEL TALES #98 (1978) REPRINTS KEY AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #121 DEATH OF GWEN STACY $78.00 It the buyer did not mistake what he was buying.....that's crazy! Glad I have #1-110, I would hate spending big money on reprints.
You need not worry. You own everything.
This book guides for about 4 bucks in the current Overstreet. I could see it going for double to triple Guide in VF because of movie mayhem...but over 20 times Guide?
Guide is wrong. I'll buy every single one you have for triple Guide. All of them.
Well, there you go. Spoken from a major dealer. The word is out. And I mean that in all seriousness.
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MARVEL TALES #98 (1978) REPRINTS KEY AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #121 DEATH OF GWEN STACY $78.00 It the buyer did not mistake what he was buying.....that's crazy! Glad I have #1-110, I would hate spending big money on reprints.
You need not worry. You own everything.
This book guides for about 4 bucks in the current Overstreet. I could see it going for double to triple Guide in VF because of movie mayhem...but over 20 times Guide?
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I think the AF #15 bubble is about to burst now that we have Smurf Electro, Hobbit Green Goblin, and Gundam Rhino.
Nah, I am excited for the new movie.
As I said before this is not Amazing Spider-man it is Ultimate Spider-man, but AF 15 get the increase in value rather than Ultimate Spider-man #1 (any of the covers).
If AF 15 has a downward trend than the hobby as a whole is done, but I believe more the major keys only have a chance of going down is if America collapses.
These characters are American folklore, so IMO Jack Kirby, Romita, Sternako, and so on are so important to American culture it is a disgrace schools do not have them on US history books.
I'm looking forward to the movie as well, though I am a little worried about the portrayals.
And "funny books" will never get the respect they deserve from the people at large. Most think all these $B franchises popped into existence from nowhere.
I just read in another thread here that someone donated a buttload of long boxes to a local university because they are offering a course on comic book history. It's playing out as a slow burn but it appears respect is coming. Every year of seeing creators promote comics via social media and movies getting made and blowing out box office records just makes for leaps and bounds of the visibility of comic books as a widely accepted means of entertainment or pop culture. It's like a marketing machine that grows like the Borg. In the 40s, 50s and 60s, comic books were considered a fad. But all those people were just as wrong as Jaydog...
As I get older and watch the generations get younger, I more understand my inability to understand what intrigues the younger people. (Want proof? Go ask your parents about something you know "they just won't understand". "But Mom, THIS tv is better because it's in high definition and shows the movie in the correct aspect ratio!") The influences babies grow up with in the current state of the world shape them differently than 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. When you see what remains stable through all that time, you know you have something special or at least ingrained as something basic or fundamental. I'll never get Pokemon or trying to pretend life before the internet didn't exist, but whatever floats their boat. I've made my peace with that long ago.
That said, I'd still love to have both books. I would not want to choose.
I don't get it. What exactly am I "wrong" about? I simply posted numerous recent sales that empirically and emphatically answer the question about which book has more "value" on the open market...an AF 15, 4.0 or a TMNT 1, 9.6. The sales suggest that not only is an AF 15, 4.0 superior but so is a 3.5, and possibly even a 3.0. Even a 0.5 recently sold for just under $5k. The guy who got the AF 15 in this trade probably made more than three grand on the deal. And that's even with the underwhelming ninja turtles movie on the horizon propping up that book's value for now.
-J.
The AF #15 in 0.5 actually sold for over 5K...if you include the shipping. -
Daredevil 229 - First Daredevil's mom, who doesn't love a nun!
I doubt none do...
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What do you guys think of Shazam 28. The prices have been going up monthly. Possible speculation on The Rock playing Black Adam? Low CGC census, is that due to no one caring or low print runs?
Sold a mid grade for $50 recently. Not particularly easy to find for some reason.
I don't even know where my high-numbered Shazams are . . . the attic maybe?
Could any "lost" tomato boxes be in the attic?
Nah, I'm down to only two or three of those . . . and there in a "prime" location.
:think:
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Bought from Claudio for the first time. Incredibly solid package shipped from Italy to the southern U.S. It was only one book (actually, two, as he tossed in a nice freebie), but it easily arrived safe and sound. Faster than some U.S. shippers too. :
:Additionally, whether it's eBay or here or anywhere, it is VERY refreshing to get a book that's graded VF+/VF-NM and have it be a VF/NM...and I'd say it was heavily flirting with NM- territory.
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What do you guys think of Shazam 28. The prices have been going up monthly. Possible speculation on The Rock playing Black Adam? Low CGC census, is that due to no one caring or low print runs?
Sold a mid grade for $50 recently. Not particularly easy to find for some reason.
I don't even know where my high-numbered Shazams are . . . the attic maybe?
Could any "lost" tomato boxes be in the attic?
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Matthew, I would reverse those odds if I were you (you are saying there is a high chance you WILL get the pulps) Also please PM or e-mail me all of the correspondence you have with BLB, including order info, and the like (even unanswered/unresponded messages) This will be especially helpful for the HoS nomination.
Cloudofwhit, the reason I am "dragging my heels" with putting this together is because I am trying to make sure the nomination is as clear and concise as possible. Given his history, he will probably have numerous defenders coming to his defense, those who want to see him added to the HoS need those on the fence to vote in favor, hence the need for the detailed nomination.
jaybuck43, you're one of the ones who is trying to understand this, track this, and get some sort of resolution to this. I wouldn't be able to hold up under the circumstances. More power to ya.
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I can't prove he sold the pulps jaybuck. They were on ebay. Then they were sold. (I am sure they were the some of the same ones, probably 8 of the 10 most expensive pulps worth about 100 each of the 341 he sold to me at 3600 were among the ones sold) Then there was positive feedback left for some of them. And then 90 days after the transactions all record of them was deleted by ebay. I know it's true. I can just no longer prove it's true that he doesn't have them all.
Here's 6 more of them that I bought from him that he still has up for sale. Even put them on a discount sale to try to move them since last he posted late November on collectors society...
And im not interested in putting the guy on the probation list. The time for half measures is decades past due. I want him in the hall. And a vote taken on it when I'm eligible to call for it. If I'm completely high on something, people will vote no, but judging from the stories, this has been decades a-coming. Just haven't had a loudmouth like me pissed off enough until this point to put him there.
Regardless of what this turd has said on here, or Mitch on his behalf, he's just trying to delay more to make this issue go away so everyone forgets about it and he can "get away with it".
He needs to be in the Hall in the same way that Hitler needed a bullet, and Gandhi should have got a Nobel.
Jesus.
This technicality that is keeping "hope" alive until the eve of Christmas seems over-the-top. It's wonderful we have rules here and a structure to things even though our hosts have (arguably wisely) put the burden on us. But sometimes the pitchforks have some reason to them and the rules need to be overturned. Metaphorically speaking, if the pitchforks were legitimate picket signs that would ultimately cause the overturning of a said rule or law(s), then let it be written, let it be so, as Poverty Row might say. Or the Bible.
I say let us praise Beerbong with our words about his 40 years of wandering in the comic book wilderness and giving us pearls of wisdom. But let us also consider academia and one of its terms--"cognitive dissonance"--and say that we can toss him in the Hall of Shame in this lil' ol' corner of the Internet world and be okay with it. (This is not to lamely put spirituality & academia against one another.) He's a sometimes huckster. He's a sometimes formidable scammer with street cred via Overstreet articles. I'm thinking he contributed to the legendary fanzine "Comic Book Marketplace". Maybe not. But, meanwhile, Matthew could use 3K. Gee, I know I could use 3K. That's a decent percentage of my annual income for goodness sake (TMI, brother, TMI!
) Those of us who reside in that CGC Boards Hall of Shame--and those of us who don't--can speak of the good ol' days, but we can also chat about how there should be societal foots up the that we should embrace because of, well, karma (from one worldview) or we "reap what we sow" (from another worldview). And I'm sure there are more than 2 perspectives. Let it be said, Amen.
May Mitch give his old buddy some tough love and kick his while singing his praises. I've already sensed that this has happened in some of the King's writings. It's a matter of percentages, I guess. If it was the U.S. political system, I'm thinking a 2/3 vote would easily be in order.
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Then you can queue up behind Parasite or Symbiotic or whatever the heck his name is today and join the other brazenly shameless leaf-turners who stand to benefit from a sudden conscience.
Yeah, this one is also a real "winner".
He somehow posted the
in one of Foolkiller's sales threads before the book was even posted. He was looking into Brian's photobucket account to see what was coming up next.
Then he has the gall, after cheating a second time in the same thread, to say he didn't intend to win the books.
He was only posting on the boards for 13 or 14 days, yep, he only wants back in to once again be a pillar of the community.
CGC Boards sleuthing.
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So basically all this amounts to buyer's remorse at the expense of an honest seller.
I just wanted to agree with Bio-Rupp here and say that I've had multiple transactions with Frank over a number of years. There has NEVER been an issue. Over 6 years of buying, selling, and sometimes trading here, I could probably come up with 10 sellers that I would buy from in an instant, even without pics. Frank is definitely one of them.
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Picked up a sweet Batman slab from Brian. Prompt delivery and SUPER safe packaging. LoneTree = reliable Boardie
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Absolutely beautiful book, Don. I've seen hundreds, maybe thousands of these, and can't say I've EVER seen one that has all the qualities that yours has. You rarely see this book with a cover as white as yours. Can't recall any slabbed copy I've seen that has white PQ either. Congrats!
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Had a smooth, hassle-free transaction with Todd. Paid promptly. Ended up having an in-person meeting/chat. Great guy with some great books.
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I suspect there are a lot of raw ones out there, but mostly low grade.
I suspect that there could be quite a few more high grade copies out there somewhere than most members on this board suspect. Quite simply I don't believe that the members of this board as a group are a statistically representative sample of the universe of comic collectors. Those collectors least inclined to consider slabbing their collections are also much less likely to be interested in joining this forum where so much of the discussions concerns various facets of slabbing and the comics that have been slabbed. Therefore being more heavily exposed to the subset of collectors more inclined to slab their comics would tend to cause the members of this board to think that a greater proportion of the universe of existing comics has been slabbed. After all, it's a common trait for people to generalize from their own personal experience.
Didn't Rick/GAtor post someplace that he has a friend with some insane amount (was it 50 or so) of raw high grade copies that he accumulated over the years and was now starting to trickle out? I would not be surprised if there are more people out there with smaller high grade stashes as well.
Your memory is on the path. It was in the AF #15 Club thread about a year ago. This anonymous Boardie is mainly a Golden Age collector (collecting for 4 decades), but has hoarded all the Silver Age keys--including some keys where he has dozens of copies. His short box of AF #15s numbers 65 copies, ranging from FR to NM (likely most are in mid-grade range--though one has been slabbed and scored above a 9.0). The mind boggles.
Although I've summed up most of it, the page #s in the AF #15 Club thread to check out G.A.tor's exact words are: 654; 657-658; and 660. Sorry, no links.
As for the AF #15 population, G.A.tor thinks that 10,000 is a conservative estimate. He's going by the 250K print run he's heard of and thinks 5-10% remaining would be reasonable (so, 12K to 25K total). For those not in the know, G.A.tor has the street cred, I hear.
The 10,000 estimate is probably just the number of copies he has had go through his hands over the years of wheeling and dealing. (thumbs u
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I suspect there are a lot of raw ones out there, but mostly low grade.
I suspect that there could be quite a few more high grade copies out there somewhere than most members on this board suspect. Quite simply I don't believe that the members of this board as a group are a statistically representative sample of the universe of comic collectors. Those collectors least inclined to consider slabbing their collections are also much less likely to be interested in joining this forum where so much of the discussions concerns various facets of slabbing and the comics that have been slabbed. Therefore being more heavily exposed to the subset of collectors more inclined to slab their comics would tend to cause the members of this board to think that a greater proportion of the universe of existing comics has been slabbed. After all, it's a common trait for people to generalize from their own personal experience.
Didn't Rick/GAtor post someplace that he has a friend with some insane amount (was it 50 or so) of raw high grade copies that he accumulated over the years and was now starting to trickle out? I would not be surprised if there are more people out there with smaller high grade stashes as well.
Your memory is on the path. It was in the AF #15 Club thread about a year ago. This anonymous Boardie is mainly a Golden Age collector (collecting for 4 decades), but has hoarded all the Silver Age keys--including some keys where he has dozens of copies. His short box of AF #15s numbers 65 copies, ranging from FR to NM (likely most are in mid-grade range--though one has been slabbed and scored above a 9.0). The mind boggles.
Although I've summed up most of it, the page #s in the AF #15 Club thread to check out G.A.tor's exact words are: 654; 657-658; and 660. Sorry, no links.
As for the AF #15 population, G.A.tor thinks that 10,000 is a conservative estimate. He's going by the 250K print run he's heard of and thinks 5-10% remaining would be reasonable (so, 12K to 25K total). For those not in the know, G.A.tor has the street cred, I hear.
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I can't...but I'll do the next best thing and update the title of this post...
C'mon, get it in gear.
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Preach it, GoogaMooga!
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"Losing Mum and Pup" by Christopher Buckley.
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*sigh*
I kinda agree with that. I've only interacted with him on a messageboard maybe twice. I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's a typical artist. I've had MANY artists promise things and go back on what they said they'd do. Once it snowballs and gets out of control, they hide. I think that response started with Adam and Eve.
DG
So, artists are LESS reliable than non-artists? Poppycock!
And since you invoke Genesis, aren't we all created in the Image...so who isn't an artist in some sense? -
This thread is gonna be a lot of pages.
A lesson that he's taught everyone who's read this thread. 
Not that Copper/modern 9.9s are a terrible bet to remain one-of-a-kind in the census-- that's something he had to learn, we all already knew that-- but that blatant displays of hubris on a message board aren't forgotten. Ever. 
It the buyer did not mistake what he was buying.....that's crazy! Glad I have #1-110, I would hate spending big money on reprints. 
The AF #15 in 0.5 actually sold for over 5K...if you include the shipping. 
) 
in one of Foolkiller's sales threads before the book was even posted. 
THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
in Silver Age Comic Books
Posted
When it comes to conflict resolution, he's amazingly civil with his words.