lou_fine

Gotta admit, now that looks like an absolutely crazy price at first glance. Not so sure how crazy it is though after giving it some sobering thoughts with how high this market has been going. After all, it is pretty hard to beat an early Fox book with a classic cover to boot.

Is it just me or is everybody else also not receiving the ComicConnect auction links to all of their individual lots that they normally send out on a daily basis about 10 days before the close of their Event Auctions?

Well, all I can say is that you certainly can't go wrong with an early key Fox book and a first appearance at that.

Well, all I can say is that this copy here was all lined up to be in my collection except it looks like it finished up at $31,111 or about $30K more than what I was willing to pay for it. Absolutely hate the CL auction format where you always get these last second bidders with their ridiculous snipe bids.

Yes, pressing can also be beneficial for a mid-grade book, especially some with the subscription crease where we have seen them go from a CGC 6.5 graded copy right up to a CGC 9.0 graded copy. These are more the exceptions to the general rule though, as I believe the overwhelming majority of the pressing jobs are being done for much more recent books already grading in the 9's and just looking for that little extra loving squeeze to hopefully push it up just a little bit more. Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but it costs almost as much to have a book pressed as it does to grade a book nowadays. For the example which you quoted above in terms of a book with a value between $400 and $1,000; it's going to cost you an additional $60 to have it pressed. Definitely not the $10 or $20 you was talking about and it now looks like you have $165 of additional services and counting (even more with the pre-screen option) into the book just prepping it for sale before you also incur your selling expenses on top of that. With those kinds of numbers, guess who's making the guaranteed and easy money on the book.

Hmmm... I'm not entirely sure that the conserved category is any more acceptable than PLOD. The ones I've seen sell, including the one I own, have gone for considerable discounts to Blue label. Although I imagine if collectors get educated on what "conserved" vs "restored" means, the prices may differentiate between PLOD and Grey relative to Blue. Still doesn't change the fact that they aren't ONLY harsh on pressable defects. They've been harsh on non-pressable defects like stains for a looooong time. Well, from observing the major auctions ever since the big Jon Berk Auction on CC a couple of summers ago, it's quite apparent to me that the prices realized would indicate a much greater acceptance for both Conserved and even Restored books relative to the early CGC days when everybody simply tried to avoid the PLOD's. Of course, a Conserved copy of the same book in the same equivalent grade would most likely and should go for less than a Universal unrestored copy. At the same time though, the Conserved copies of the same book in the same equivalent grade would also go for a premium to the Unrestored copy of the same book. In fact, with many of the HTF or classic cover GA books, it is common for Conserved copies to be selling for a huge premium or even multiples to guide. The only Conserved book which I won the other year ended up costing me over 2X condition guide and which I still consider as a steal to this day. These types of premiums or even multiples are definitely not as common for the restored copies, although there are still many that do sell for premiums to guide. Definitely still more than before when it was limited more to books like Action 13, Cap 3, or even Amazing-Man #26 where I still remember a restored CGC 2.5 graded PLOD copy with a guide valuation of only $198 at the time selling for a rather astounding $6,300 back about 8 years ago. As for CGC being harsh on defects such as stains, is it possible that they just might want to entice you to use their additional revenue generating "cleaning" services to help that book maximize its potential a little bit more?

Makes me wonder whatever happen to all of those early hopeful purchasers who had sent in their $50 or whatever it was as an advance deposit for the book? I was actually considering it, but looking backwards now, glad I did not.

Ok, that is a bit much. Was it a 10.5? Can't remember exactly, but if I remember correctly, it was auctioned off on one of the CL Auctions. Hopefully, it's the single highest CGC 9.8 graded copy, but it's also possible that it might have just been one of the several CGC 9.6 graded copies. Especially considering how many CGC label chasers and collectors we have out there. It was actually a boardie here who was the consignor of this particular copy that sold for over $30K. Seems like an over the top purchase from my point of view, but still not quite as over the top as this copy of Iron Man 30 that managed to fetch $15K in a CC Event Auction: Now, that was definitely an irrational price to pay for a non-key otherwise common early BA Iron Man book.

I guess the only point I am getting at is that it is hard to separate grading from restoration in today's marketplace relative to the generally accepted standards that were in the hobby for decades prior to CGC opening its doors. Especially when what was clearly deemed to be a restoration technique to enhance the appearance of a book in the past is now the go to technique to artificially improve the grade of a book in today's marketplace. I guess I am saying that it's quite a stretch to say that CGC was simply correctly applying the standards of the hobby that had been in place for decades. From my point of view, they clearly were not and simply should have proactively inform the collecting base as to these changes. Definitely not a problem that we don't see eye to eye on this particular issue, but it's always okay to agree to disagree on issues such as these.

I respectfully disagree. Almost every book can use a press...even one bought yesterday off the rack. There are exceptions, but very few. I would argue that 90% of all books should be pressed if your sending to CGC. +1 I would 100% agree with your statement here. Especially in the case of the 80's regular newsstand books and newer which are relatively common and only have value in the uber HG conditions where pressing can mean a minute difference in grade, but a huge difference between a profit or loss on the book depending upon the number that shows up on the label. Definitely not so much the case with the older vintage collectible comic books where many of them will still garner multiples of condition guide in all grade levels right across the entire condition spectrum from CGC 0.5 and up. Especially in the case of the HTF or classic cover books where it's so much more about just being able to acquire any copy of the book, as opposed to needing to find it with a particular label.

IMHO, collectors that don't take advantage of CPR, are basically throwing money out the window. +1 Sad to say, but this statement is very true based upon how books are currently being graded for the past few years under the present CGC regime. At the very minimum, collectors should be doing a pre-screen for pressing or otherwise, probably shouldn't even bother sending the book in at all.

+1 I would agree with you 100% that if the book is a CGC 4.5 graded copy, then there must be obvious visible defects which the submitter must have missed, even in the case of a book that was never read and he claims was stored carefully (but maybe improperly?? ) for 30 years. RMA; Are you just trying to be sarcastic here or was you sleeping through the entire pressing fiasco that took place here back in 2005 when the good boys at CGC were caught with their pants and undies down around their ankles? Did you also actually believe that whole "disassembly and reassembly of a comic book in and of itself does not constitute restoration" retroactive story that they came up with in order to justify how a Church copy of a book could go all the way from a CGC 3.0 graded copy up to a CGC 7.5 graded copy before settling in at a CGC 9.0 graded copy, all while residing in a blue Universal slab? Especially even when the bible of the industry (i.e. 2005 Overstreet Guide) at the time still had restoration clearly defined as "any attempt, whether professional or amateur, to enhance the appearance of an aging or damaged book. These procedures may include any or all of the following techniques: recoloring, adding missing paper, stain, ink, dirt or tape removal, whitening, pressing out wrinkles , staple replacement, trimming, re-glossing, etc." How dare Overstreet and his gang to include these additional revenue generating techniques all those past decades under the restoration umbrella when many of them were not included by CGC either right from the get-go (without informing anybody of course ) or eventually over time. I would assume when the day comes that Jason is hired by Heritage or becomes the head grader at CGC, that would mean another one of the former restoration (or was it destruction) techniques would have been moved out from under the restoration umbrella. Especially when it is virtually impossible for the graders to tell if a book had been pressed micro-trimmed, if the work had been done properly, and you certainly would not want CGC to be guessing if something had been done to the book or not.

It most definitely is if you are talking about books from the late 80's like what the original boardie was referring to. I can think of only a small handful of regular newsstand books from the late 80's going forward that would even be worth slabbing if they were in CGC 9.6 graded condition or less. That is why all of those cherry picked books off the shelves of the LCS from 30 years ago by the long time collectors might not even be worth slabbing unless it's also gone through the additional revenue generating pressing process as based upon the current CGC grading standards.

What about stains? They are brutal on stains. Much more so than the "old school" graders. Far as I know there is no way to remove stains (without getting into chemical washing, which will get you a PLOD) Well, from my reading of their new Restoration Grading Scale, it would appear that they have now moved cleaning (both water & solvent) from the dreaded PLOD category into the much more accepted quasi blue/grey Conserved category. Of course, you would have to resubmit the old PLOD back into them in order to get the much more accepted quasi blue/grey slab and you know what that means. Dig much further down into your pocket once again.

"Beat on the door" meaning let the comic community I'm involved with know that I own a book from his collection and I'm looking for an audience (phone or person) with the reclusive Mr. Woo pertaining to that book. Definitely not reclusive since he loves to talk about the books in his collection and sometimes to the point that some of the local people here seems to get tired of hearing about them. Many of the old time collectors including some of the biggies like the Dentist don't ever bother to spend any time on these boards here which seems to be much more the home for the CGC generation of collectors. Well, with respect to Dave, except for that one and only explosive unforgettable post that he did make here several years ago.

No matter how hard I beat on the door I can't get Magik Woo to answer. You gotta admire the J.D. Salinger of the comic world. What do you mean by your term of "beat on the door"? Do you mean talk to him in person or by telephone. Or do you expect him to answer you on the boards here, since I doubt this would ever happen because like most comic collectors, I don't think he spends any time at all on the boards here

Now, you've got the right idea here if you stick to books, as opposed to many who have simply brought the CGC labels only to find out that they more often than not have rapidly diminishing value as time goes on. When it comes to the books themselves, it's needless to say that you should also try to stick to vintage collectible books which historically tends to gain value over time, as opposed to the latest media hype book which tends to lose value rather quickly and dramatically once the hype or event is over.

+1 Bang on.

Did you just make a typo here? Are you saying that you just sent in 4 books with an overall total value of only $800 and the pressing and grading fees are going to come out to $1,200? Now, I know that CGC is expensive, but hopefully they can't be that expensive or nobody in their right minds would ever submit any books to them.

Man, what an incredible cover! +1 Although I would generally agree with you here, I would personally much rather take the cover for Adventure Comics 73 myself:

Not if you are the one who paid over $30K for a copy of MSH 13. I wonder how the buyer is feeling about that purchase now.

+1 I would definitely agree with you here and that is why I would avoid all of the movie hype related books which often tends to run its course in terms of demand pretty quickly. Especially in the case of the common books which only has transitory value in uber high grade condition and not much value in anything lower than that.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but even CGC 1.0 graded entry level copies of 'Tec 31 have been selling in the mid $30K to mid $40K price range for the past few years. So, I strongly doubt you will have very much left over to pick up many of the other books on your list if you go after a 'Tec 31.

Just going by CL's auction description for this particular book. Even in their title heading it states "Listed as 'Scarce' in Overstreet Guide. In their detailed auction description, it states the following: "It is very uncommon on the market. Since our inception in 1996, only a handful have ever sold on ComicLink."

Sad to say, but very true. I would definitely agree with you and say that CGC's undisclosed grading criteria is all about grading very strict and very harshly on the additional revenue stream defects and much less so on the other defects which they cannot generate additional revenues. Totally understandable though since CCG is a business entity after all, and in that sense it's all about generating as much money for their top and bottom lines by getting their customers to pay as many times as possible on the same book. Unfortunately, even more so in the past few years now that the former owner of CCS is now the head grader for CGC and it's quite clear where his expertise is in terms of looking for defects. Why get money only once from a book when you can make subtle, but yet significant undisclosed changes to come up with a grading system which entices the customer to happily and readily submit the exact same book multiple times back to you.