lou_fine

You mean you was hoping for loose grading, and instead, you ended up getting accurate grading. Seriously though, thanks for responding and giving us a definitive answer so that this thread can finally get back on track.

Hope you didn't have to sell your liver to get this copy? Almost seems that's required now the way some of these GGA covers are going for huge dollars, even in raw low grades sometimes. Especially since this one definitely has both the curves and the headlights.

Care to explain why you regretted submitting your books to them? Was it because they came back graded too loose or tighter than what you were led to believe by most comments here? Or was it due to slow turnaround times, poor communications, insecure packaging for shipping, etc? Or was it simply because they did not look nice and were not compatible with the rest of your slabs since the others are all CGC slabs? Your post just left a lot of unanswered questions that should probably be clarified a bit more. By the tone and context I presumed that he simply got a disappointing, cut-rate price for the slabs when he tried to sell.... -J. If you want to debate a point - bring data, bring fact, bring healthy tension. And accept the fact from time to time you'll be wrong. In this particular episode of jaydog gets his panties in a bunch - you clearly put words in someone else's mouth (slanderous ones at that). You get called out on it, and to defend yourself, call attention to an unrelated thread (or, peripherally related at best), serving to do nothing but confuse the issue. Not to put words in someone else's mouth, but since I was the one who had asked the question. With these responses to my question, I went back in my mind and gave it some more thought. I believe I remember a comment from gadzukes in one of the threads about the new case holders that was kiboshed by CGC. I believe that it had nothing at all to do with grading or the reselling of the slabs. He was just sad to see them in a different holder as he was a loyal CGC customer and all of his slabs were from CGC. I also believe he is more of a collector as opposed to a seller. But just going off my memory and maybe gadzukes will come back and answer the question more definitively for us.

Heresy! Our 8.0 copies are GORGEOUS !!! Yes, my bet is also that the 8.0 lower priced copies will outperform the highest graded copies such as the 9.6's and 9.8's from a price percentage performance point of view, going forward.

Not too sure how you can equate Marvel Comics #1 with Detective #1. Marvel Comics #1 had Torch and Subby...Detective #1 had.... +1 My comparison would be more in line with equating Marvel 1 with Fantastic Four #1 and Cap 1 with AF 15.

Care to explain why you regretted submitting your books to them? Was it because they came back graded too loose or tighter than what you were led to believe by most comments here? Or was it due to slow turnaround times, poor communications, insecure packaging for shipping, etc? Or was it simply because they did not look nice and were not compatible with the rest of your slabs since the others are all CGC slabs? Your post just left a lot of unanswered questions that should probably be clarified a bit more.

But a Voldy 9.0 AF #15 sold for $237K this past spring. http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1012?ArticleID=176921 Roy; Have you forgotten that this is the CGC boards and that you should never let boring facts get in the way of a good story. Actually, I believe you are still missing Jay's point here. If this particular copy was residing inside a CGC 9.0 slab, it would have sold for a cool half mmiiiillloon dollars, and not just for a paltry measly $237K!!!

This is the book you speak of: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515# The signature isn't visible. I don't think having a signature impacted the value of this book. I'm thinking it is the condition of the book and the fact it is CBCS. If this book was cgc 8.5, SS, it would have done much better. Yup. -J. Jay; Since you seem to be the acknowledged expert on CGC grading verus the other company, how would you grade this 8.5 signed copy relative to the recent CGC 7.5 copy (which was once a CGC 5.5 copy by the way ) and which managed to sell for something like $82K, or a premium of 50% above the condition guide price? Maybe we should snap up all of the key books graded by the other company and simply send them into CGC for regrading as there's obviously a ton of potential easy money to be made here. For example, even if CGC came back with a grade of 7.5 on this 8.5 signed copy of AF 15, you would still be ahead of the game. Of course, you would stand to lose a bit if it came back as a CGC 7.0 signed copy. But just imagine the almost 6-figure profit you would make if it came back in the same 8.5 grade or your big jackpot winning if it came back as a 9.0 graded copy (which I personally don't see any chance of by the way). I guess this goes to show the power of the brand and being first to market, even though historical evidence has clearly shown the product to be of less than consistent quality over the years.

The poor thing was obviously "stan-lee'd". That kinda accounts for the 2500 imho. , not a fan of the signature series? Yes, it would appear that a signature increases the value of an otherwise worthless common drek book. When it comes to a true vintage collectible comic book, however, a signature is probably treated more like a clear and visual defect by the marketplace. Probably one of the reasons why the signed 8.5 copy of AF 15 in the most recent HA auction managed to sell for only something like more than a $35K discount to the condition guide price.

Entry level copies are certainly getting more and more expensive as each day goes by. The 0.5 that went back and forth between us seems like a bargain only a year later. Better get one now if you are on the fence. Yes, this trend seems to be taking place with all of the big dollar books, especially in terms of the HTF GA books. For example, even a Poor ungraded 0.5 copy of Action 13 sold on HA for almost $15K. The entry level 0.5 graded copies of Detective 31 now appears to have moved well into the $20K+ range based upon their last few sales. I guess for the collectors without the deep pockets, it's simply a matter of being able to acquire an affordable copy when they do become available in the marketplace.

Well, from the reproduction of the first Overstreet guide, it looks like all of the SA keys were well under the $50 mark. Fantastic Four #1 appears to be at the top of the charts sitting at $30 in Mint condition. Looks like both AF 15 and ASM 1 were tied at $16 a piece, but still not high enough to beat FF 2 which came in at $20. Love the chronology as Journey Into Mystery #1 came in at $14 while JIM #83 managed to fetch only $10 at top of guide. For DC's, it looks like all of the Flash Showcase books came in at the same $12 mark, but still behind Showcase 17, with the first Adam Strange possibly topping the DC SA chart at $16. And for Roy and all of the other Thundra fans, it looks like the first issue of Thundra came in at $30 in Mint condition.

Of course they did, with many people calling it the Overprice guide when it first came out, as it was opined that nobody in their right mind would ever even think of paying $300 for a Mint copy of Action Comics #1. Is $300 what Action #1 listed for in the 1st Guide? Does anyone have one handy to list some key prices? I've got the Overstreet Giveaway reproduction that was done up in 1993. Yes indeed, Action 1 is listed for the outrageous sum of $300 in Mint condition, with 'Tec 27 at $275, and both Marvel 1 & Superman 1 at $250 each. I guess nobody wanted AA 16 in those days since it was listed at only a measly $50 in Mint condition.

Of course they did, with many people calling it the Overprice guide when it first came out, as it was opined that nobody in their right mind would ever even think of paying $300 for a Mint copy of Action Comics #1.

4-5K probably If this Joker cover is going for over 4X condition guide even in restored condition, what would it be going for in unrestored condition?

Wow, looks like there's almost 150 entry level copies (i.e. 0.5 or 1.0 graded) for AF 15 which seems like a surprisingly high number to me. Any idea how the market works for entry level SA books? Do these entry level SA books sell for insane prices relative to their bottom of guide prices, similar to how uber HG copies (or even 9.8 BA books) sell for insane prices relative to their top of guide prices? Especially since the price guide isn't really meant for books in higher than 9.2 condition, and apparently also not for books in lower than 2.0 condition. An incomplete answer to your question: AF #15 in 2.0 is listed at $5500 in the current OSPG. 12 month GPA average is $10,332. For 1.0, 12 month GPA is $6520. For .5, 12 month GPA is $5149. So it seems AF #15 in low grade does better than guide prices. Hulk #1 in 2.0 seems to do well too. FF #1 in 2.0 looks like it sells right around guide. Sold a Hulk 1 in 1.0 today for 4200. That's above guide. I believe 2.0s are going for around 5k. So I concur Hulk 1s are going above guide. Good to know that the entry level copies for some of the SA keys also appears to be moving at a robust pace and at a healthy premium to guide. Any idea if this entry level action is limited to only the SA keys or has it also spread to some of the sub keys or minor keys? Looks like the entry level prices for both AF 15 and Hulk 1 are running around double guide based upon the numbers I am seeing here. Not as bad as the GA books which seems to be running at higher multiples to guide making the barrier even tougher to cross for entry level copies. For example, even CGC 0.5 graded copies of Detective 31 were selling in the $20K+ range for last year when the 2.0 Good price was only at $13K. The most recent sale for a 1.0 graded copy went for over $43K. Same with Action 13 as a 0.5 raw copy sold for almost $15K on HA when the 2.0 Good price was at only $9K. Sad to see that these barriers to entry for even non-key books seem to be getting more and more insurmountable to climb.

What a book was to me is irrelevant because it could have been a higher grade or a lower grade. It's only what it is now that matters to me. And I buy (and sell) accordingly. Makes sense. Makes absolutely NO SENSE to me at all. Sounds as though you guys are saying that we should buy the current label, even if we know the book was graded significantly lower in previous occasions. Doesn't matter what was done to the book as the only thing that is relevant is its current grade. So I guess Roy would have been willing to pay full market price for the Church 9.0 copy of Boy Comics #17, even though it was originally graded as a CGC 4.0 copy and then regraded as a CGC 7.5 copy before finally hitting a CGC 9.0 home run on its third try, all while residing in a blue slab. It makes perfect sense. You have no idea whether a book has been in a higher or a lower grade holder (although you are conveniently assuming it was in a lower grade holder of the sake of this discussion) or if it was ever in a holder at all. Roy; Looks like we are not quite in synch here. I was referring to graded books where we clearly know that it was previously encased in a substantially lower graded slab. Like the CGC 7.5 AF 15 which we all now know was previously a CGC 5.5 copy or the Church 9.0 copy of Boy Comics 17 which everybody knew at the time was initially only a CGC 4.0 graded copy. You seem to be referring to first time graded books or possible previously graded where nobody can trace what the previous grade was. Of course, in this case, I would agree with you in that the grade is the grade as there is no other information to go on.

Nice pre-Robin set of Detective books you have there! Any plans to upgrade any of these copies or to go beyond the pre-Robin time frame?

This is apparently Gator's equivalent of what Fantastic 3 is to Fishler.

Wow, looks like there's almost 150 entry level copies (i.e. 0.5 or 1.0 graded) for AF 15 which seems like a surprisingly high number to me. Any idea how the market works for entry level SA books? Do these entry level SA books sell for insane prices relative to their bottom of guide prices, similar to how uber HG copies (or even 9.8 BA books) sell for insane prices relative to their top of guide prices? Especially since the price guide isn't really meant for books in higher than 9.2 condition, and apparently also not for books in lower than 2.0 condition.

I'd take that sale with a grain of salt. Doug factors 'trade value' into the sales price, and trade value can be a grey area. +1 Totally agree with Roy on this point here. Especially when a better looking 8.5 graded copy (albeit by the other company) managed to sell for less than the so-called "full asking price" for this supposedly overgraded 7.5 copy.

What a book was to me is irrelevant because it could have been a higher grade or a lower grade. It's only what it is now that matters to me. And I buy (and sell) accordingly. Makes sense. Makes absolutely NO SENSE to me at all. Sounds as though you guys are saying that we should buy the current label, even if we know the book was graded significantly lower in previous occasions. Doesn't matter what was done to the book as the only thing that is relevant is its current grade. So I guess Roy would have been willing to pay full market price for the Church 9.0 copy of Boy Comics #17, even though it was originally graded as a CGC 4.0 copy and then regraded as a CGC 7.5 copy before finally hitting a CGC 9.0 home run on its third try, all while residing in a blue slab.

9.6s they usually go fer 1 mill a pop right? Wrong, only when there was only 1 9.6 copy on the census, as per the following post below: I believe it would be a bit of a stretch to expect another 9.6 copy to hit the $1M mark in today's market.

Yes. It was reported to me to be an honest mixup , and no way to prove ow so I was just happy I got the books back. No doubt all of the media attention and heightened exposure here on the boards went a long way to helping to clear this mix-up sooner rather than later. Just happy to hear that you got your books back in the end.

Yes, the lowest PPP would be in the mid-grades as these books are sort of caught in a no-man's land. Too expensive for the entry level collectors without the deep pockets and yet, also not nice enough for the high end collectors with the deep pockets.

Any idea if these are consigned copies that Metro do not even have access to since your link to the Metro site only have stock images for these 2 books, as opposed to actual cover scans? I imagine a potential purchaser would like to see real scans of both the front and back covers at a minimum, before putting their dollars down. And in the case of the 'Tec 31, why would the consignor not put it up for auction on the CC website instead? With the dollars that the uber low grade copies of this book are getting on the CC auctions, should a CGC 6.0 graded copy not go for more than the $110K or best offer price which Metro is asking for here?