lou_fine

Speaking about pricing strategy and guide valuations, it's kind of funny how much my thinking has changed over the decades since I first started collecting back in the day. I still remember those early guides from the late 70's with the Barks Porky Pig being my first one that I purchased and pretty much torn to shreds due to constant use. My thoughts back then was that I hoped to find some fool collector willing to pay me full guide prices when it came time for me to sell my books. Fast forward to today and my thoughts are that I hope to find some fool dealer or for a book that I want for my personal collection to fly under the auction radar so that I can purchase it at only full guide.

With covers like this Amazing Mystery Funnies here, you are clearly a collector with discerning taste and a sharp eye for gorgeous classic covers. Absolutely love the combination of bright colors on this cover here, and one of the more beautiful ones from the early AMF run. All I can say is that I wish I had a second chance at some of these beautiful early AMF issues from the Jon Berk Auction now knowing how the auction would turn out by the end of that week. If so, I would definitely have gone higher on my bids for some of these early AMF's and hopefully have at least a few of them in my collection. I imagine there must be a lot of collectors like you chasing after this particular issue here, as I noticed Overstreet jacking his valuation on this one by a lot more relative to the other issues in the run, as it went from $3,300 from the time of Berk's auction back in 2017 to now sitting at $9,500 in top of this year's guide.

My favorite Sandman cover out of the small handful out there, but sadly, was never able to find a nice enough copy back in the day for my personal collection before it blew right past my pricing threshold.

Pretty much dead on with your two listed examples, but the one that I found funny and rather ironic was this one here as per a previous post from another thread on these boards here:

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! I actually went back and re-read his post a couple of times and I really think there's a hidden message and some reverse pyschology in play here. I believe he might actually want the guide to be published 3 or 4 times a year like back in the mid-90's when they used to have the GA Updates.

No real surprise here, but it looks like none of the original buyers are brave enough to dare send their books back in for a regrade prior to reselling. I guess it kind of speaks volumes when the CPR game which is one of the usual go to plays in today's marketplace is not being used for these Heritage submitted Promise books. Haven't been following these resales of the Promise books very closely, but have there been any yet where the original buyer has made money on their second go round resale? I guess neither the 'Tec 140 or the Phantom Lady 17 have come back to market yet since those might have gone to longer terms collectors, but those two would definitely be interesting to watch on a resale.

Oh, come on now.....................it's such an obvious error that it was simply NOT put in there intentionally for copyright purposes. Seriously though, I thought this list was limited to just the GA time period or else the first issues and origin issues of the Marvel Western trio of Rawhide Kid, Kid Colt, and possibly even Two-Gun Kid should be on there. Of course, this explanation wouldn't hold much water since half of his Top 10 Si-Fi list is made up of DC Silver Age Si-Fi books.

Was flipping through the new guide and noticed another comment by Overstreet that indicates he's a bit slow to the punch when it comes to some of these books. In the last paragraph of his market report after copy and pasting 4 pages of excerpts from his advisors , he makes note of the fact that it was discovered in January of 2022 that Top Notch #22 has a one page ad with Archie that came out 5 days before Pep 22, Archie's 1st appearance. If I remember correctly, I was quite sure this fact was already being discussed on the boards a couple of years ago when @sacentaur was still on the the boards here with us. Wish Steve was still posting here since he's such a great collector and knowledgable boardie. Flipped over to theTop Notch listing to see what Overstreet did with the book's valuation and noticed that he finally broke it out from the Top Notch 21 - 30 grouping where it had been valued at only $1,450 in last year's guide and with the breakout, rocketed it all the way up to $10K in just one shot while bumping the rest of the grouping his mormal $50 up to $1,500. Definitely a tough tough book to track down with a total of only 6 Universal copies graded to date, with the CGC 9.4 Church copy selling for some $38.4K back in 2019 and this latest mid-grade sale back in September of last year for $13.2K: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/top-notch-comics-22-mlj-1941-cgc-vg-fn-50-white-pages/a/7246-94105.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Very well said and you definitely hit the nail on the head here with your comments on Mystery Men 2, as I also feel that it is a highly underrated and almost overlooked classic si-fi cover. Absolutely love the bright colors on this cover here and I actually personally prefer it over the Mystery Men 3 cover which tends to be the artistic cover of choice for many of the early Fox Mystery Men collectors.

Definitely nowhere close to being in the same ballpark as the Nova Scotia Mystery Men 2 or the other Allentown MM books pictured above, but this result from Heritage's Monday Auction indicates that the early Fox market is still going great guns: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/mystery-men-comics-2-fox-1939-cgc-gd-vg-30-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122231-11697.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Sold for a very strong $5,040 which confirms that the CGC 3.5 graded copy of MM 2 that sold for $6,300 last summer was not just an one-hit wonder.

Totally agree with you here, but for potential buyers, might be a good opportunity if the donward trend continues. As for the WP designation, I believe that @Jaydogrules as per his previous posts on this issue would respectfully tend to disagree with you here. Now, if it had one of those CVA or QES stickers on the holder, then that might just bring in the CPR crowd and push the book over the top.

Clicked on your link here and noticed this issue right after yours and currently running at $5.5K or about $9K below its price from November of 2021, but only about $3K below its two sales in June of this year: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/the-amazing-spider-man-50-marvel-1967-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages/a/40202-82014.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Open-ThisAuction-120115 I guess that auction result of $14,400 from November of 2021 must have been when the crazies were still out there and hence the real outlier.

Well, did you see those two record setting prices for Spidey 300 earlier this week at the Heritage Auction: https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=52+1063+790+231&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Nty=1&Ntt=amazing+spider-man+300&limitTo=all&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-X-071316 Hard to believe that a signed Newsstand copy can fetched over $30K while an unsigned Newsstand copy can still fetch almost 20K in today's supposedly softening marketplace. It's almost like speculators and collectors are trying to split hairs here in order to justify a case of rarity for what is otherwise pretty much a relatively common book, even in nosebleed HG condition.

It would appear to be much less so with respect to the GA market, especially the classis covers, since these books don't tend to show up as often. I was watching a couple of the Frazetta Famous Funnies books and they still seem to be going for record prices, even in mid-grade condition: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/famous-funnies-213-eastern-color-1954-cgc-fn-60-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122230-17289.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 This copy here sold for $12K or 20X the 2021 condition guide value and still at a strong healthy 9.25X the 2022 condition guide value even though Overstreet jacked up the valuations for this book by 158% in this year's edition of the guide. Although this one here has a lower valuation in the guide as it only went up by about 30% in this year's guide, it still sold for $9K or 15X the 2021 condition guide value and at a very strong 11.6X the 2022 Overstreet condition guide value: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/famous-funnies-215-eastern-color-1955-cgc-fn-60-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122231-11437.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 So, thankfully for now at least, the malise or softening in the marketplace has so far not spread to all corners of the market, as there still seems to be continued ongoing strength when it comes to large parts of the GA marketplace.

From the way I see it, especially when it comes to the BA and CA Marvel books, an over abundance supply is the main issue here. Especially when it's not just a case of every single dealer having these exact same so-called hot key books at their tables at every single con, but all auction houses having multiple copies of these same books in every one of their auctions. Sure, collectors and boardies here always say they can't wait for prices to fall so that they can start buying these books again. The only problem is this never really happens as buyers only truly want to buy when prices are going upwards with potential gains to be made, as opposed to buying them when they are falling and don't know how much further they will continue to fall.

Well, here's the answer to your wish and also every other early Fox collector's dream, if you can only convince the lucky owner to sell. I won't get too greedy and simply just settle for the Allentown copy of Wonderworld 7.

Yes, now that's the exact photo shot that I was thinking of in my post up above and would surely be any early Fox collector's dream cache. From this distance and angle, they all appear to be HG copies and I imagine some of them would be pedigree copies. Any idea which copies would be and from what pedigree would they be from?

The real question is why would anybody in their right mind ever fall for this movie hype in the first place and even think of paying 4-figures for this obviously "common as dirt" book to start with? Or how about the poor guy who ended up paying over $4K for a copy of Eternals 13. Now, that one was a real loonie bin case. I can just imagine all of the copies of Eternals 1 that was sent in for grading last year based upon these 4-figure results and the submittors are still waiting to get them back from the CCS/CGC long term storage facility, hoping they will still be worth something by then.

I am absolutely terrible with the Search function of the boards here, but didn't we see a post from a boardie here that had a nice photo shop of some HG copies of the early Mystery Men and Wonderworld books, including some of the Allentown books and other pedigree copies?

Definitely not a weak result per se, but relatively speaking, did not seem to surprise as much on the upside as compared to some of the other less classic non-key books like the DC Batman's that managed to hit 6-figures later on in the auction that same day.

I've never given any thought to comparing BB 105 with Mask 1, as I've always tended to compare the Mask 1 with the Suspense 8 myself. I guess only time will tell though, as from the Guide's POV right now, there is now a whopping 5-fold difference between BB 105 at only $10K in top of guide, as compared to Mask 1 at $50K in top of guide. Then again, I guess it was only a very short few years ago (i.e. 2019 as a matter of fact) that Mask 1 was guiding at only a "piddly" $8K and even well behind Suspense 8 before it and Mask 2 started to take off like a rocket ship. No need accelerated by the fact that what was once thought of as a scarce or rare book all of a sudden started to pop out of the woodwork and appeared in almost every other auction throughout the ensuring two years to help propel the prices upwards. I imagine we will have to wait and see if these seemingly strong prices for BB 105 even in mid-grade are tempting enough to bring more copies out into the marketplace and like the Mask Comics, help to ramp the prices even further upwards. Although the Mask 1 is clearly at or approaching a high peak, the BB 105 might just be getting itself off the launch pad right now. As for the now almost seemingly forgotten Suspense 8, this book would probably be viewed as idling by in the on-deck circle awaiting its turn for now.

I would tend to agree with you that within the first hour of bidding in the first Promise Signature Auction, it was quite evident that not too much would be flying under the radar from that point onwards. Out of the big key books, the only one that I really noticed was the CGC 9.6 graded copy of All-American 61 with the classic Solomon Grundy that sold for a record setting $138K. After watching some of the later results in that first auction, I got the impression that the AA 61 might have gone even higher in the $150K to $200K range if it had come later in the auction, instead of being the second or third book in when the bidders still seem to be trying to get a "feel" for the auction.

Well, Heritage definitely played the game right with this collection here, as they utilized the old strategy of "one being born every minute" to the maxed hilt. Especially since once you got past the first two Signature Auctions, it should have been pretty clear to everybody by then that this was in no way the 2nd coming of the Edgar Church Collection from a pure book content point of view. Much more like a 2nd coming of the Big Apple Collection, albeit in far superior higher grades. Especially when we were basically left pretty much with 4th and 5th tier books from 3rd and 4th tier publishers made up mostly of books that many collectors within the hobby had low interest in prior to the Promise Collection being unearthed and marketed. To each their own, but that number in the corner and some of the books encased within the holder with their clearly visible defects was a lethal combination for me as it brought into question inconsistent grading on this collection and held me back (though clearly not others ) from bidding higher on books which I otherwise would have gone higher on because I was not as sure what would be inside.

I know you'll never publicly agree with this because of your allegiances, but it's clear now that Jon made a terrible mistake in selling his collection through Metropolis/CC, which was further compounded by selling it all in one auction. Please simply skip right to the next post if you want to avoid reading a long and convoluted answer to a not so simple question. From an auction results POV, I believe you are looking at this through 2021/22 eyes as the Comic Book Division of Heritage back in 2017 well before they got the headline grabbing Promise Collection and before the overall surge in collectibles due to a combination of the Covid lockdowns and crypto infused monies was nowhere near as robust and dominant as they are at this current point in time at least. Especially since the strength and influence of these auction houses tend to waver or float up and down over time, depending upon the collections which they can acquire from their consignors. Sure, their comic book related OA division was always the 800 lb gorilla in the OA market, but this was clearly not the case back then when it came strictly to the comic books only. Heck, for awhile back then, I thought the HA comic book offerings were almost petering right out and that their entire focus might be shifting over to the OA portion of the marketplace. Now, if you are referring to the rather obvious grading discrepancy we see between the two collections, I guess this is either a good case for at least pre-screening your books for maximization of potential or a confirmation of the potential conflict of interest that collectors and boardies first feared when CCG brought out Matt's Classics Incorporated business and put it under their umbrella. Of course, it could also be a combination of both reasons as I still remember reading on the Jon Berk thread with some boardies stating that it was in CGC's own best interest to grade those books as tough as possible and it only made good business sense to do so. From the number of resubs we are seeing (or NOT seeing in this case) with the Promise books, this is clearly not the same case when Heritage is the submittor of these books as I imagine a different playbook is in use here. Totally agree with you 110% on the point of not achieving the best results when you put ALL of the books into one big auction, as even CC themselves were getting much better results with these book on their second go round. Especially when it was so easy to simply think Pass and skip down to the next book or another title later on in the hopes that you might win that one at a more reasonable price point. This point was pretty much acknowledged by everybody here, and heck, all I will say is that I would have some of those beautiful and rare Amazing Mystery Funnies in my collection right now if the letter "A" was at the end of the alphabet, as opposed to being the first letter in the alphabet. Then again, I seem to get the distinct impression from Jon's many comments that money was not the big key criterion in the disposal of his collection, but rather that the books be passed down to the next generation of comic book collectors to be the caretakers of them, like he had been for the past decades. Doing it in one fell swoop would certainly ensure that the books be passed down to a wide swath of collectors, as opposed to divviding them up over multiple auctions and see them going mostly only to the deep pocketed collectors/investors. In addition, being such a long time passionate comic book collector and true fan of the hobby, Jon probably also might have found it easier and less mentally painful to "rip off the bandage" in one fell swoop, as opposed to slowly and gently trying to peel it off. As for getting top dollar for your books, sometimes money is not the be all and end all that some of us seem to make it out to be, as there are usually also many other factors at play. Maybe it was simply a case of Jon feeling a lot more comfortable dealing with "old school one of the boys" Fishler from the old days as opposed to the new "outsiders" like Halperin and Ivy. Probably also a sense of loyalty since I am quite sure that Jon got a good portion of his books from Fishler back in the day, and sometimes you just go back to the ones that brung you there. After all, sometimes money is not everything or else all collectors and all consignors including YOU would be cracking out every single book you own to see if their potential can be maximized any further in order to get top dollar when it came time to sell. Since it's rather obvious that not everybody does this, you just have to respect the seller's choice when it comes time to sell, as I am sure they have their own good reasons. As for MY allegiances, I am in the fortunate position of not having to make any right at this point in time. Although I have stated on many occasions that when it comes to our comic books, it's clearly not a case of one shoe fits all as each of the auction houses have their own individual strengths and weaknesses. Any astute consignor needs to look at both the grading and auction environment when it comes time to sell their books as it is clearly a moving target which tends to change over time. Heck, by the time it comes to me, I would not at all be surprised if micro-trimming was all the latest rage and Jason was now head of CGC after the ownership at CCG or whatever they are call figured that they've probably squeezed the last possible ounce of potential out of poor overworked now flat as a pancake Matt.

To each their own, but you are referring to the top left hand corner of the label which I do not pay much attention to, as long as the book is presentable and have nice eye appeal relative to that number. I tend to focus much more on the center part of the label, and by "quality" in this case here, I simply mean that books like JLA 1, JLA 2, and Daredevil 1 is of higher "historical book content" quality than a Spidey 300 which already has over 1,600 copies graded at CGC 9.8 or higher, with almost another 5,000 copies knocking right on its door at CGC 9.6. Especially since as we all know, that top land hand number is very subjective and changeable, while that center portion is definitive and fixed as a JLA 9 will always be a JLA 9 and cannot be magically manipulated into a JLA 1 for example.