lou_fine

Based upon the apparent crumbling prices for some of these types of so-called key once sky-rocketing red hot books, your wish might just have come true, or are you already out the door with the rest of the buyers that are running for the exits as fast as their little feet can take them.

Or it could also be CCS/CGC submittors who sent in their books last year hoping to cash into the crypto-like rising comic book marketplace only to see their books still stuck in long term storage while prices on some of these once red hot books have dropped by big double digit percentages in the interim and probably still further down by the time they actually get their books back either later this year or into next year.

Speaking about the early Raboy Master's, I still remember having the opportunity of picking this copy up, but made the mistake of changing my mind at the last minute: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/master-comics-26-lost-valley-pedigree-fawcett-1942-cgc-vf-85-white-pages-the-cover-of-this-issue-illustrates-nicely-w/a/808-4448.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|2 Was down at a SD Con and saw this copy up high on a dealer's wall display for what I thought was a very enticing price of only $900 or thereabouts. Just as I was about to make him an offer, I decided to walk down to the Basement Comics booth and asked to see a copy of their Lost Valley Collection catalogue for one last check. Since this was about a year or so after the whole pressing controversy had erupted on the boards here, was rather turned off when I saw the book had been initially slabbed as a CGC 8.0 even though it had been listed for $1,150 at the time back then. Can't remember now if it was sitting in a CGC 8.5 slab or its final CGC 9.0 slab (most likely) when I saw the book, but now that my then disdain for pressed books have mellowed after all these long years on the boards here, I probably should have picked it up based upon the very reasonable price, let alone the fact that it would sure look pretty sitting in my personal collection today. Just took a look at my Lost Valley Catalogue and makes me wonder where all of these Master's are today since this pedigree had a pretty intact run from Master 22 right through to Master 45.

Well, hopefully some of these books will finally be coming out once Heritage is all done with the Promise Collection, but I somehow I still doubt it as it's already been over 20+ years and they still haven't hit the marketplace yet. Like you said, since I value eye appeal over the technical grade, this suits my pocket book just fine.

Well, with some of the supposed shenanigans that we read about taking place with some of these auctions here, have you guys ever considered the possibility that there was no $23K haircut here and the first $66K result for the All-Flash 32 might possibly have been used to find a real life patsy for the second transaction at $43.2K? Although I personally doubt it as I tend not to believe in these kinds of conspiracy theories.

Since green is my favorite color, needless to say I've always loved the cover for Planet 38 and would also love to acquire a copy one day. Being a collector who's always cared more about the appearance of the book itself, as opposed to the CGC label, this copy here would look just perfect if it was sitting in my personal collection: Especially since it was graded as being only a CGC 6.5 copy back in 2007 or thereabouts, if I remember correctly (need to check my spreadsheet), which should hopefully help to keep the price down at a much more reasonable level.

Have you tried reaching out to Mitch on this particular issue here as I believe he has always been of the opinion that prices would only go up on the Promise books once Heritage was done with their auction of the collection?

EXACTLY, and this even applies for grades below CGC 9.8 and CGC 9.9, as can be seen from this example here: An absolutely beautiful looking CGC 9.0 graded File Copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 from all the way back in 1939. Then again: Is it really worth THAT much more now that it is residing in a CGC 9.6 slab, even though it still exhibits the same 2 defects that was delineated in the Grader Notes (i.e. Front Cover Writing & Top Back Cover Lite Shadow) when it was graded as a CGC 9.0 copy? Or should we really be bidding much higher based upon the fact that it is now encased in a CGC 9.8 holder since the serial number for the 9.6 graded copy had been removed from the census right when the CGC 9.8 copy was added into the census population report?

Maybe we have different definitions of an ‘accomplishment’. Clearly the case here as it's pretty easy to see the difference in the definition here, depending upon what viewpoint you are approaching the two books from. If you are approaching it from a relative grading scarcity POV, then the 9.9 Transformers 1 even with almost 4,000 total copies graded to date and counting because it can be seen as an "accomplishment" with only 4 copies currently graded at this highest CGC 9.9 graded condition level. Especially when the supply side of the equation comes into play here as a copy in this nosebleed condition very seldom ever comes to market and can indeed be seen as a virtual "unicorn" in that sense. Then again, if you are approaching it from a historical comic book POV, acquiring what is considered to be the key SA comic book out there and one of the Top 3 comic books of all time in CGC 2.5 condition can also be seen as an true "accomplishment", even though there are well over another 2,000 copies of this same book in either equivalent or higher graded condition. Especially when the demand side of the equation comes into play here and buyers are still willing to bid these astronomical prices for this book even though it shows up with usually multiple copies in this condition grade or higher in every single auction.

Yes, like I said, most definitely a case of to each their own. As long as both sides are aware of the rules and how the game is played, it's all good if the seller is happy with their sale and the buyer is happy with their purchase.

To preserve the copy you bought off the stands well enough to get a 9.9 is a great accomplishment. Dropping 45k on a pre-existing copy isn’t an accomplishment at all. I suppose having the extra 45k to drop on a 9.9 copy could be considered an accomplishment though.... Unless it was something like a 9.6 copy at the start that got steamrollered into a CGC 9.9 graded copy.

Although I personally wouldn't go for either copy, there clearly is less risk and a much much smaller chance of a making a purchasing error for a CGC 3.0 graded copy of Transformers 1 at $18, as opposed to paying $44K for a CGC 9.9 gradd copy of Transformers 1.

Well, the one big benefit going forward out of this is that the problem with both CCS's and CGC's turnaround times will eventually end up taking care of itself.

I guess it's truly really a case of to each their own when it comes to collecting, as I thought this differentiation was pretty much self-explanatory. From my own personal POV for what it's worth, buying the grade basically means you need to have the book in a certain grade before you deem it worthwhile to buy. In almost all cases, the book is relatively common and in any condition before this particular grade, the book is basically deemed to be pretty much "worthless" or a money loser if you decide to grade it. A perfect example would be all of the new books that are hitting the shelves of the LCS and then being sent into CGC for pre-screening at 9.8 because anything below that and you are not getting your money back. These are the types of books which I mean when I say you are buying the CGC label, as opposed to buying the underlying book itself, because it's the label that's giving the book its value and not the underlying book itself. What makes it even worse is that grading for all intents and pursposes is still a subjective art and as we have seen, also subject to CPR and all sorts of artifical manipulation. Why would you want to pay multiples more for a particular grade when we have seen the exact same books being manipilated from a CGC 9.0 all the way to a CGC 9.8 or another that goes from a CGC 4.0 all the way up to a CGC 9.0. Money is more of an exact number whereas a CGC grade tends to be a lot more wishy washy in this day and age of CPR and the gaming of the grading system, and again to each their own, but something that I wouldn't place too much value in if it means paying multiples more. In terms of buying the book, as opposed to buying the label, I am basically referring to books that have value in ALL GRADES across the entire condition spectrum. This means that the book would still have value whether it has been slabbed or not, or even better, whether it has been restored or not. Examples here would be books that can still sell for multiples of condition guide prices whether it has been slabbed or not or even able to do so in restored condition, because this means the buyer is then making the purchase for the underlying book itself, and not so much for the CGC label if there is even one. You are just simply ecstatic to be able to find the book at all, let alone needing it to be in a particular grade. For example, this book here along with many others in the same auction were clearly purchased for the book itself, and not for the grade or label: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/more-fun-comics-45-dc-1939-condition-gd-/a/122213-17630.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction Especially since it ended up selling for $4,800 or something like 20X its Good+ raw condition value and a clear sign that it did not need to be in a particular slabbed grade before it had any value. Certainly makes me wish I had some of these classic HTF books in my personal collection. BTW: I was completely wrong and you are indeed 100% right on the Transformers #1. Especially since I was going through one of my worthless drek boxes and to my absolute surprise and shock came across a copy of Transformers 1 in pristine minty fresh condition in there. So, the absolute greatest book in the world and since mine's must also be a CGC 9.9 worthy copy, it truly is worth all of that $44K that the CL copy managed to fetch last year.

Dearest aardvark; I guess it depends on what your definition of speculative buy is as I have never ever brought a 10 pack of comics before. By speculative buy, I generally mean buying a single copy of a comic book with the thought in mind that it might eventually go up in value, more than for the story and book itself. If I have more than one copy of a book, it's usually because of a purchasing error because I forgot that I had that book in my collection already. As for that list of losers you have up there, I actually do have a copy of Omega 1and probably Fish Police 1. Yep, got pretty nutso and embarrassed to admit it, but fell into that horrid B&W trap in the late 80's and ending up buying a few of those early Aircel loser titles, Albedo's (exc #2), Usagi's, early Valiant's, etc. And yes, I do remember doing a spec buy in terms of purchasing 5 copies of that Magnus 12 with the Turok first valiant appearance and also the same with that black Solar 10 cover due to all of the hype at the time. The only good thing about that is that it pretty much got me out of buying new books as they just simply got far too expensive with the Deathmate issues and all after that. Like any addict though, have relasped every now and then like when the Afterlife Archie titles came out a few years ago, as I had always liked the Archie character and the Riverdale TV show was just starting up and thought their take on the characters were rather interesting at the time.

Wouldn't it be nice to be young again and back in the day's of the 80's with that big mop of hair, and able to grab those wants of yours at 80's prices.

I’m right here waiting…..nothing exciting in my GA world to report yet Well, here's something to soothe your soul while you are waiting: Especially since it's going to be a long long wait, if ever, for prices to come down on the types of books which you want.

Oh...well...that's a little different. Hard to put a pricetag on a unicorn. I am more shocked at the $18 sale. Yes, isn't this transaction really the poster child for the classic example of a CGC label chaser buying the label, as oposed to buying the book. Especially since some of the comments here would seem to acknowledge the general sentiment that the underlying book itself is so common that it has no actual worthwhile value in most grades across the entire condition spectrum.

Didn't I see in one of these video interviews with Matt Nelson where he quip the prices increases were CGC's answer to their TAT problems as the higher prices would tend to discourage submittors from submitting going forward longer term?

Makes me wonder what hapen to all of the boardies and collectors who said they couldn't wait for prices to fall so that they could start buying again. From my own personal POV, I find that most buyers want to buy into a rising market and actually not when the market is falling.

I can't help but wonder what was going through the head of the buyer who bidded and paid $44K for a copy of this relatively "common as dirt" CA book here, and this is the exact reason why we have this sentiment on this particular book here:

They say that, but if you look thru the posts in current turnaround times you’ll quickly find out that is not the case. Books from CCS do move faster once they hit SFG. Not sure where the post from OtherMan has gone to since it appears to have now been deleted. This confirms to me that CGC and CCS are indeed NOT acting like two separate independent companies like what they are supposed to be doing. I certainly hope this preferential treatment in terms of turnaround time that is being given to books pressed by CCS, as opposed to their competitors, also does not extend to either preferential grading of the books or preferential treatment of pressing defects (if any) as some have alluded to?

This strategy works when the Fed is on your side, but as recent times have shown us with the Fed working against you.......sell the bump!!!

So, I imagine that you would also dismiss the BB28 sale for $750K?

Now, this is an understatement if I ever saw one since the following article states that it had sold for $750K in a private transaction: https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10307/brave-and-the-bold-28-cgc-9-6-soars-to-750000/ Facilitated by our very own @MrBedrock who I thought was the owner from reading this thread here, but apparently the book was actually owned by a Rob Rong according to the article and sold to a Tony Arnold.