sfcityduck

There are categories of comics rarer than pedigrees. An example: High grade subscription variants. Normally, subscription variants are plagued by the dreaded subscription crease. But I know of some subscription variants which have actually beat out both file and pedigree copies to rank top of Census with grades in the 9.4-9.6 (white) range. Those, I think, are rarer than pedigrees both because (1) subscription variants usually have unique front or back cover art to accommodate the subscribers address and (2) are much harder to find in high grade than a normal comic that was not mailed folded. And, of course, they have the OO's name and address on the cover for those who want to delve into the personal history of OOs. But, at the end of the day, isn't high grade itself a rarity? I think so for the GA. Pretty much every high grade collection that came to market prior to 1972 was sold without the benefit of "pedigree" marketing. And there were a ton of OO collections being bought by collectors or brought to market by dealers prior to 1972. Thus, we know of old time collectors like Bill Placzek (or is it Placek) collecting from 1956 to 1976 who had, by 1966 (at the age of around 15), amassed tens of thousands of comics, including with the benefit of his father finding a "huge" OO collection. These finds helped him amass complete DC runs up to 1952. But the pedigree for those has been lost as they were intermingled with other books. More rarely, we know of guys like BZ who started aggressively collecting as a teen in the early 1960s, including many ads in publications seeking to buy comics, and has demonstrated he has thousands of pedigree quality books. He has said he could identify which OOs the best books he owned came from - opening up the possibility that he could someday get those old groupings of books a pedigree designation (the W.T. Gilgrist" books undoubtedly deserve it). And more sadly we know of OO Dave Wigransky who was amassing thousands of high grade books off the stands starting in 1940 (and buying back issues to fill in gaps in his runs in the late 1940s and early 1950s) but sold them off in the mid-1960s such that his collection was dispersed and lost (although Russ Cochran got all of the ECs). The point being, there are many really nice high grade groups of books which are now unrecognized pedigrees because that's a concept that no one in the 1960s recognized as a thing. And my guess is that a fair amount of high grade books are still sitting in collections and someday we'll find out that there are more high grade non-pedigree books that may top the census. On the downside of the pedigree thing, most pedigree OOs are unknown because the discovers have elected to keep the cards close to their chest -- which always seems a bit suspicious to me. So those pedigrees don't even have a back story.

One other thing, I was either talking to someone recently or reading a post and I recall a reference to buying an Action 1 for $500 in the 1960s. Edited to add that: it was this comment by Bud Plant: "Now, about Barry Bauman, since he came up…Michelle Nolan drove us teen-agers (John Barrett, Jim Buser, maybe MR. Swan) up to see Barry for the first time in early 1966, from San Jose to Oakland. Barry had all his comics in an attic at his folks house. He had a table with the best of the best laid out face up; the one and only book I remember was Action #1, which he wanted $400 for. Of course, as you guys noted, $400 to a kid (I was 14 in ‘66) was a fortune." Did it sell for $400? Don't know. Ask Bud. Also, Mitch's comment about the history of his record Action 1 purchase is as follows: "Let me give you thumb nails summary-Theo bought it from Bruce for $1500 and got cold feet and sold it to me for $1800 and when I bought a much higher grade copy I sold it back to bruce for $2500." Again, you will need to contact him to get dates and amounts. Finally, Bob Beerbohm has said that a month after the Whiz 2 was sold by Comics & Comix to Burl Rowe (presumably February 1972) C&C then sold Rowe the SF/Reilly D27 for $2,200. So that also needs to be added to the chart. Any information you add to that chart you ought to share with Rob React for his It's All Just Comics site.

That early info came from research I did and shared on these boards and with Rob's incredibly useful "Its All Just Comics" site. Missing from it is info that postdates this entry: "Action #1 sold by Theo Hostein for $1,801.00 ($10,498.17) to Mitch Mehdy in May of 1973." After that occurred, Mitch paid more for another Action 1 and resold the first Action 1 to Theo for more than he paid for the first Action 1 but less than I think he paid for the second. You can contact Mitch by PM to get the amounts, which I'd imagine he'd share if he set the record twice. Here's the thread on this topic with the info I gathered ten years or so back which includes where that info actually came from: And here's a more recent discussion on the topic:

Overstatement? The Signal Corps was a branch of the US Army (along with the Air Corps and the Ground Forces). Stan was a Sergeant. He was a Sergeant in the US Army. That he didn't go into a combat theater (other Signal Corp members did) doesn't make anything he said incorrect. Stan did not claim to serve in the infantry (and many guys who were in the ground forces never made it to a combate theater either). Worth noting that most figures from the comic industry who went into the Armed Forces did not serve in combat theatrers - instead they did work stateside such as Milt Caniff who illustrated Army training manuals while also drawing Terry for pay and Male Call as charity work. Stan Lee also did training materials and manuals while in the Army. No stolen valor here. No "sort of overstates his military duty." Just a lack of historical context of how many folks serving in the Army never saw combat or even a combat theater. I am confused by the claim that Martin Goodman, after he joined the military, had the pull to get Stan into a "cushy detail." How exactly did that work? Sounds like sour grapes. EDITED TO ADD A LINK TO PROOF STAN SERVED IN THE US ARMY: https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=1&cat=WR26&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&bc=,sl,fd&txt_24994=12184201&op_24994=0&nfo_24994=V,8,1900&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=603043

IMHO, there is no practical difference between a truly conserved book and a universal since conservation can be reversed. I personally believe that certain forms of restoration which prevent damage should be encouraged. There is no rational reason to encourage anyone to keep a rusted staple on a book when it can be replaced with a period appropriate replacement.

Cat, It’s what?, 2:37 in Texas or Oklahoma? I knew your wife was a celebrated author of a vampire series. You must have been a major inspiration for her nocturnal characters!

No. Except for certain Okajima books. The fact that DA opted for non-mile High books over certain of his Mile High books sort of says it all. The story of a pedigree has to be really compelling to cause me to pay a bonus in a cgc world,

Please see Pat Calhoun’s posts at the end of this thread: Jon’s posts taught me a lot and I am grateful for his involvement in this hobby and his generosity in sharing his knowledge.

Jon Berk was a tenacious seeker of knowledge, comics, and original art, and a generous sharer of his knowledge and images of his possessions. I learned a lot from his posts and doubt he will be forgotten by many. My sympathy for his family and friends. We are richer for his life.

Thanks!

Mitch, l am not FB anymore because my account was hacked and Zuckerberg doesn’t impress me. As for my statements about Bob: (1) Bob used to have an informative FB group (I believe - if it was a site let me know) that delved into comic history. I had reached out to Bob about Wigransky. To get access to the group I had to get permission from the group moderator - Bob. So that is the basis of my statements. My memory. I have nothing to apologize for if you were referring to a different page/site or my memory is wrong (I don’t think it is as I may still have emails with Bob on this but haven’t checked).. That was an honest mistake on my part and I am man enough to let people see my mistakes and have no need to edit anything to wipe out the past. Certainly nothing I said was defamatory or critical of Bob. To the contrary, my point is Bob can defend himself. (2) I am not trying to silence you. I am saying, to state the obvious, take it somewhere else. Start a thread titled “Bud is wrong and Bob is right!” Copy Bob’s post into that thread. No need to derail this thread. (3) As for why I am calling you a gladiator for Bob it seem you chose to bring this dispute from FB to this thread. That was your choice. Here’s not a secret: You and I have both made a career out of being mouthpieces for others. My “elevator speech” when someone asks me my profession is to tell them I am a legal hit man. Because I am. My job is to win arguments. Which can lead to some seemingly harsh rhetoric when I forget that this is supposed to be a friendly place. Hence, I don’t think a year has gone by without a ban. I have been rightly criticized. So I understand your love of argument. (4) I think we have established I am not a mediator. I am a litigator. I like to argue and win. But Bud is a wiser man than me and he doesn’t need my help. I have no personal knowledge to bring to this debate. I would be surprised if you could find a critical comment by me of Bob or you (or Theo for that matter). In any event, I will do my best to keep this thread a civil space. Including attempting to appeal to your best instincts to not derail it. So what say you?

Mitch: Without any judgment as to who's right or wrong, the last thing I want to see is this thread turning into a battle over the recollections and credibility of Bob Beerbohm versus anyone else. I've seen enough of those threads on this site to know that they often devolve into a highly vitriolic food fight. Bob shares his stories on his facebook site which is password protected and not public. There no reason to import Bob's stories over here - especially when Bob may not want them going public, which I assume from the security he has on his FB. If you feel the need to be Bob's gladiator - which Bob doesn't need as he doesn't seem at all shy about saying what he feels needs to be said - please do it somewhere else.

Mitch and Bud have apparently achieved detente so I think we can move on from that since they have. I am less interested in debates on who moved the hobby forward the most than in all the stories that show how folks in their various ways contributed to moving the hobby forward. I really look forward to Bud’s stories, but I am interested in everyone’s stories. I have enjoyed your’s and Mitch’s stories. I am just grateful for whatever does get passed on.

Back on topic. I spoke with a friend of Dave's who visited him in 1967. Consistent with the RBCC ad, Dave's friend confirmed the comic collection was sold before 1967. Here are a few things he shared with me. The highlighted portion of what he told me makes me sad as a comic collector. These men shared a passion that they never discussed.

Timely used Schomburg. You can't blame them. So he didn't get the chance to shine for them until the 1950s, but boy did he shine then! As for his non-Timely early GA work, I think most are pretty amazing for their time. A couple examples: 1938: 1939: 1940:

C'mon Mitch, Bud just gave the sincerest apology I have seen on this site. Bud must be very confident at this point in his life, because I rarely see such self-examination and self-criticism. I'm gratified this thread has attracted the attention of collectors like you guys. My favorite threads on this site all concern the history of comics or comic fandom, both the history that gets written up and the history which is forgotten or was never publicized (kudos to the still anonymous Marty Mann for being a first hand voice on what building a comic collection in the 40s was like and BZ for showing us what a stunning collection a very smart young kid could build if he started out in the early 60s and was in the thick of fandom using really smart strategies). We've had a lot of notable folks drop by the Boards and even this thread. This thread has attracted some great off-topic stories that I really appreciate. I like the digressions and the surprise visits such as Placzek's and now Bud's. I'd hope we can keep that going.

Good thing I am not trying to make a career as a mediator!

Back on topic. There was a mystery as to how Dave Wigransky died. Whether he had an aneurysm, as some of his friends stated, or whether he'd committed suicide, as some documents indicated. The sad answer is that Dave committed suicide. Dave's best friend in the record collecting world was Maynard Bertolet. Bertolet at one point had the largest record collection in the world. Bertolet penned a tribute to Dave in an Al Jolson Collectors publication titled "And a Heart to Think With." It is a heart breaking tribute. Just wanted to share a few outtakes:

Mitch: I get it. You got roasted when you first showed up. So did your longtime friend Theo (who sold me an item I greatly value - a comic rack from the Tower Drug that my Mom would have bought comics from as she lived in Land Park). So I get your sensitivity to apparent criticism. But, you are coming in a little forceful here. Might have been more tactfully handled by a PM. Because, after all, Bud did say: "I’ve run into Mitch years later, now that he’s into original art, and he seems like a perfectly nice guy." Bud's coming at collecting history from a position where he was (1) a bit older than you, (2) it was his profession from a much earlier time and for a much longer time and in more roles than you, and (3) he has a different view of what constitutes the "early days of collecting" than you. As you know, collecting changed so much over the course of the 60s, that even a few years difference gives folks completely different experiences. Guys like Willits, Brown, and Olson had a different experience than you and Bud. Bud had a different experience than you and his opinions are going to reflect that. You had a much different experience than someone like me who only started collecting five years after you bought your first Action 1. So this is more of a time for discussion not aggression. Ironic probably coming from me because, as a litigator, I often come in too hot myself and get put on time out without realizing. Just want to keep this thread a friendly space.

Woah there Nelly! Unless you are cutting off the GA in the 1940s, which I would not do, then your opinion on Bill is way out of line. The evidence: I could go on.

Just curious If the stamp was applied by a store, how do you know whether a book is part of a pedigree or not? You can't just say low grade are not pedigrees but high grade are, because its not the grade that matters but the OO.

Bud, Obata, an immigrant from Japan, was inspired to do his woodblocks of Yosemite and other California scenes by Yoshida’s woodblock of El Capitan: I was lucky to pick one up recently. I have heard your collecting goals are broad. I hope you are aware PBA auctioneers are selling off a collection which includes all GA DCs, mainly in lower conditions, in a series of auctions starting in November. https://fox2now.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/644965290/pba-galleries-announces-historic-dc-universe-collection-auctions/

Bud, Thanks for dropping by! C&C was the first comic store I visited outside of my hometown of Eugene. Convinced my parents to make detour during a trip to SF. Bought a piece of Byrne X-Men art with some money I’d been given for X-Mas. It was around 1979. It was a great day. Around 20 years later I sold that to fund purchasing art by a Berkeley artist I collect - Chiura Obata. So C&C helped me achieve personal high points in two collecting passions. Great store of which I have fond memories. I was pretty shocked to discover Wigransky’s ECs went to Russ. But it is a great illustration of the connections and continuity of collecting. Other parts of his collection might have gone to Thalling. I still need to look through old RBCCs to see if Dave was running other ads. I have pretty much got Wigransky’s full story at this point. Need to get a few details and resources and then I’ll write it up in a more coherent form than the spool out on this thread. It’s good history story of the activity that deserves to be preserved. Makes me especially happy the thread has expanded to other stories and it is always a pleasure when a post like yours get made sharing more info and history. Thanks!

The good ones all did.

Not sure why you think Romita couldn't do action until he returned to Marvel in 1966. Romita was doing action sequences for Marvel back in 1951-1957 (genre books and superheroes), and Stan would have been very aware that Romita could draw: