Bomber-Bob

Threads/examples like this make me lean toward agreeing with your viewpoint on establishing a 9.5, 9.7 tweener grades. While CGC does not do comparison grading, most of us do. We compare books like this to others to 'logically' arrive at a grade. Maybe I have a 9.6 that looks near flawless with just the tiniest flaw, so how can this be a 9.6 with such a blatant flaw ? Or I have a similar corner issue and got a 9.0, thus feeling cheated and amazed this book got a 9.6 . From my own personal experience, I do not like this as a 9.6 but I understand the argument that it's okay as a 9.6 .

Again, I concur. It looks like the spine area alone was worked on, not a full press. This looks like an example of poor amateur pressing, without the right tools. Maybe somebody read the thread where the guy was advocating taking an iron to the book? Or perhaps a tack iron was tried? Whoops, popped a staple and burned it, better sell it.

Did you buy them ?

It all depends on the severity of the detachment and how many folds are affected. If the paper is torn at the site of detachment the book will be downgraded for the tears also. It also depends if the centerfold is detached at one staple or both. A book in the 5.5 - 6.5 range can have a centerfold detached at one staple. The book really has to be nice to get a higher grade. I would not disagree with the assessment of a 4.5 for a book with general wear but completely detached at the centerfold.

And you couldn't have just answered my question without stressing the fact of how naive I am ? As you pointed out, after 18 years of grading without the notation, there would be no integrity of the data. Sure, the early submitters of the new notation would have some bragging rights for a number of years but it would truly be false advertising. BTW, the original request here was for label notes, which does not necessarily translate into the census. If they did we would have Page Quality and Pedigree census numbers.

I'm totally aware of the desirability of the Newstand copies, even picking them up when I see them on a key book. I just never read/heard about the request to put it on the label before. It seems over the top to me but I have nothing against it. Most sellers highlight the fact when it is a Newstand and the buyer can see for himself. I'm still honestly looking for the big benefit for CGC to note. It was mentioned the implied reason is for the census but I think that ship has sailed. Call me naive but I asked a serious question and got no answer other than to be belittled. Seriously, what is the added benefit to label notation ?

Joey, I concur. Now that I am looking at that back cover, there is a very straight vertical dirt line along that BC spine, it does look to be a storage issue.

Maybe, but NOBODY backed him here, on this site. The point was made that this information is easily seen from looking at the UPC box. Perhaps you can explain why there is added benefit to putting it on the label ?

I don't think the book was switched, nor do I think the book was damaged. If damage was sustained inside the inner well it would be a crunch or crease. That corner is a color rub. You mentioned you are flipping the book, I think it highly likely a prospective buyer will not like this book either. It's simply a poorly graded book. Return it and get your money back.

I would not be happy with that book as a 9.6, apparently you are not either. I would return it. Trust me, your feelings about this book will not get better over time. It will get to the point where you don't even want to look at it anymore. Good question from the Lion, couldn't you see this in the listing ? It is rather apparent, not subtle. I'm curious, you did not show us the whole book nor the cert number, when was the book graded ?

I know this book is 'famous' for having this problem but, in this example, it appears to be more than a bindery problem. This was discussed in another thread and a bindery popped staple is much more clean. This example has some serious tears and damage to the area. Also, what is going on to the right of the staple, on the white stripe of the spine, it looks very dirty or maybe burnt ? I know some will balk at this statement but it looks like a bad press job. The spine is really flat and the vertex looks crushed.

Have you ever seen such a comment mentioned in the notes ? If a poor press job has a negative effect on the grade, I think it would merit a reference in the notes. While I know they would never consider putting something on the label, how about 'Apparent Amateur Press'. Perhaps an idea for CVA !

Yes, all the services listed are now deemed restoration except for pressing. Per Borock, since they could not accurately detect pressing, they had to give it a pass. However, this fact was generally kept a 'secret' that only the insiders knew about After Borock left CGC, he became a dealer, and bought/sold many books on the Boards. He stated he would have his books pressed. Note: He did not press himself. A man has to know his limitations ! This seemed to spread the word about pressing and made it legitimate to most collectors. The slab game has always been about getting the funny stuff past CGC. This is simply a case where they couldn't detect it. Who knows how pressing would have been viewed if they were able to detect it. The fact that pressing is now a big part of their business model and the foundation for the CPR game does imply it was in the plan all along.

Quoting myself here to add another comment. I think Ride the Tiger's observation demonstrates that the Rings can come and go depending on the storage. I stored the more problematic ones, flat with bubble wrap around it. No pressure. I also store them in a climate controlled area of the house. De-Humidifier running 24 X 7.

Yes, apparently he got different results. I would like to hear more specifics on how he stored them. Stacking them would be even worse. It's not about how they are stored, vertical or Horizontal. It's about removing the pressure.

I didn't really do a controlled test or anything, so I have no idea as to timeframe. I just looked at a book I had horizontal for at least a year and it now looks fine. If storing vertically I will put something in between the books. I have noticed that the worst scenario is storing a 'old' slab design next to the new one. BTW, also very dangerous for shipping. The new design can crush the old design, sometimes incurring a crack on the old design. CGC did not make these slab designs upward compatible for storage. In the big picture, I prefer the previous design. Sorry.

Is the #4 still your 'original' from years ago ?

I mentioned this before to crickets but I think it deserves repeating. I have found that books that I received with noticable Newton Rings have diminished or even 'disappeared' with proper storage and environmental control. I either store the book flat(horizontal) or vertically with no pressure. Have you noticed that the new slabs kind of 'lock' into place when stored next to each other ? This creates pressure on the slab and may enhance the Newton effect. Relief of this pressure helps. IMO, some books leave CGC looking fine but in the process of a snug shipping environment develop the rings. It's all about pressure.

As others have said, don't even bother mentioning the grade as it's irrelevant for the claim. The point is the missing pages, anything else will just confuse the matter.Good Luck !

Actually, I don't like the looks of this book in the slab. Notice how the top edge of the cover is above the interior pages AND the interior pages are protruding below the bottom edge. This indicates the cover is 'sticking' to the inner well while the rest of the book is sliding down from gravity. This puts pressure on the top staple. IMO, you should send this book back. The following thread references this situation somewhere in the conversation.....

The 9.8 grade does NOT take into account the eye appeal of the book. A book can have a horrible miswrap, or a dangling corner chip, many things that most of us would consider not acceptable but CGC allows it in 9.8 . I agree that a 9.8 book should look perfect to the naked eye but it's simply not so. All 9.8's are not created equal. Next time look at the book closely before buying !

I agree, this should NOT be a 9.8 . It's possible CGC considered it bindery and let it go or they just plain missed it or it got damaged in the encapsulation room. I have to ask, how did you miss this when buying it ? It's painfully, in your face obvious.

If there is an obvious flaw, even minor, it will not 'magically' grade a 9.8 with a new submission, even with a different grader. If the flaw can be 'fixed', usually with a press, then it may grade a 9.8 the next time.

So, the implication now is that Chip Cataldo is PMing the OP about the assets ? That's even worse.

Wow, so the implication here is that The OP is Mrs Cataldo . Interesting.