Dr. Haydn

On 1/2/2023 at 11:36 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

Amazing Adult Fantasy #11 - Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.

According to GCD: Voted best story in this issue by more than 300 votes, according to Amazing Fantasy (Marvel, 1962 series) #15 (August 1962). Uhh... wouldn't surprise me...

Story THREE:

A "fantastig" tale!

Art Simek must have been half asleep when he lettered the title on the splash page.

On 5/15/2024 at 2:07 PM, Brock said:

On the Richie Rich front, my friends an I really got into collecting about 2 or 3 years after these figures. We were all DC guys (my favourites were Justice League and Brave & Bold), but we also all read Richie Rich. Star Wars broke the DC monopoly, and we slowly started reading Marvel as well. By the time of Micronauts, we were Marvel converts, and probably gave up Richie Rich as we made that transition.

I grew up on a steady diet of Harvey Comics from 1969-73 until I discovered Marvel and DC's superhero fare. Fun stuff. Inoffensive and professionally done. (As I later discovered, industry veteran Joe Rosen was their house letterer.) Good entertainment for a young reader.

On 5/15/2024 at 2:00 AM, Prince Namor said:

For Mad Magazine in the 60's:

1961: 1,209,918

1962: 1,293,705

1963: 1,429,080

1964: 1,424,628

1965: 1,532,926

1966: 1,635,612

1967: 1,789,555

1968: 1,831,648

1969: 1,884,502

and then per John Jackson Miller at Comichron.com:

"(MAD Magazine) The title reached its peak circulation in 1974, the culminating year for Watergate, with average sales per issue of 2,132,655 copies...."

In a related matter, Cracked, founded in 1958 as another satirical magazine in competition with MAD, had (per Wikipedia) about a third of MAD's circulation. In the late 60s, that would be a print run of over 600,000. This number exceeds just about every comic book title being published at that time.  

On 5/11/2024 at 10:10 PM, Prince Namor said:

1970's TOP COMICS from Statement of Publication - Total Paid Circulation - these numbers tell us a LOT. Let's do the the entire decade if we can...

If anyone deserves recognition for rising to the top, it’s Archie Comics, as its flagship title reigns again for the 2nd year in a row as the #1 seller in America. Betty & Veronica places a respectable 6th.

DC takes up 7 of the other Top 10 spots, but only Superman has the numbers to challenge Archie.

Marvel has Amazing Spider-man at #9, dropping 2 places from 1969, as Romita is stretched thin from Kirby leaving the company (Romita begins drawing the FF as the reporting period begins), and ASM goes through an assortment of artists contributing to keep the book on schedule. (roughly #78 - #90, besides Romita art here and there or at least ‘embelishing’, we get Jim Mooney, John Buscema, Don Heck and Gil Kane over the 12 issues).

The Fantastic Four minus Kirby drops 55,000 copies a month from #12 to #16. Thor without Kirby loses 34,000 copies per month and drops from #17 to #24. Both books will decline in sales for the entire decade.

Marvel is mostly MIA in 11-20, as only the FF shows up, with Archie Comics absolutely dominating sales - EIGHT of the Ten spots.

Marvel finally makes its mark in 21-30, taking 7 of the 10 spots (24-30). Of interest is that Millie the Model is keeping sales pace with Captain America, Hulk and Sgt. Fury and outright beating the Avengers, and Daredevil. JLA and Brave and the Bold is out selling all of them.

I thought Marvel was dominating the market by this time? Apparently not. Realistically, they’d gone from being on the verge of out of business to being a competent publisher - though without Kirby they’d struggle in the 70’s - with only a glut of reprints (many of Kirby’s work) and a Star Wars comic there to save them.

I wish there were Statement’s for ALL the books but… this sure does give a pretty good picture of things….

How in the heck is O’Neil and Adams Green Lantern the WORST selling comic of 1970???

Well, we actually KNOW the answer to that….

So, is this the 1970 report on 1969's numbers? (Dr. Strange was cancelled in 1969. Also, X-men was all reprint by 1970, which makes its relatively high circulation numbers a bit suspicious.)

On 5/8/2024 at 12:20 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I 100 percent agree. Marvel was at its peak, then Martin Goodman sold the company, then later Jack Kirby left. 

1968 was the year, even DC with Carmine Infantino as the new boss did some great things at DC.

When I started reading Marvel Comics around 1974, the reprint titles were doing some of the peak late 60s material. The Tablet Saga from Spider-man, Galactus from FF 74-77...

On 5/4/2024 at 10:21 PM, Mmehdy said:

Keep it going....let see. some more Marvel books posted...thanks

I do wonder if there's nothing more to be said. Still, there are some great Silver Age stories coming up!

On the bright side, Dick Ayers inks over Heck's pencils looks pretty good!

Heck wasn't much of a plotter, though, at least judging from this story. 18 pages of random scenes that don't add up to much. And Stan Lee was unable or unwilling to rescue him. The "heroes fight due to a misunderstanding" plotline is a pretty tired comic book trope by 1964!

Pretty soon, the Captain America feature will debut in Tales of Suspense, cutting the Iron Man stories back to a manageable 12 pages. I guess this story was setting the stage for the "split book" era of ToS, much like the Hulk's guest appearance in Tales to Astonish just before his own 10-page feature debuted?

On 4/19/2024 at 8:16 AM, Zonker said:

ORIGINS OF MARVEL COMICS to Get 50th Anniversary Re-Release

 

@Prince Namor, I'll be looking forward to reading your new forward to this re-released edition.  

 

Oh, that would be great!😁

On 4/17/2024 at 5:24 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

@Hepcat you know I love you,  but Jack Kirby says to Stan Lee hold my beer. lol.

This splash illustrates the difference a great inker can make on the final product. Chic Stone was good over Kirby's pencils. Mike Royer was on a whole 'nother level.

On 4/17/2024 at 5:29 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

@Dr. Haydn

Isn`t very interesting here we are after over 60 plus years still talking about the Stan Lee, Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby dynamics. I like Curt Swan and Mort Weisinger, but no one cares to talk about those dynamics. Stan, Jack and Ditko did something special. 

Absolutely!

On 4/15/2024 at 10:50 AM, Hepcat said:

Well I certainly wouldn't pay to see any movie in which the leading ladies looked anything like the ones Jack Kirby drew:

My word! Invisible Girl looks like a hippo on the lower left!

That nurse looks like a hunchback!

Yes, Kirby was a great storyteller. But Stan Lee should have sent him back to art school for anatomy lessons.

To my eyes, Romita, Colan, and (even) Heck were better than Kirby at drawing women. Still, that's only part of any artist's job.

On 4/14/2024 at 6:31 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

Kirby art was like cinematic like a movie , but you still have those guys that say it was all  Stan dialogue that brought it to another level. One guy drew the whole thing and other guy came in and basically copy and paste and got all the credit. 

Kirby (with Lee) certainly kicked it up a notch with this story. It must have been fun to watch this comic hit its stride in real time in the mid-60s.

On 4/13/2024 at 6:33 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

This stuff is classic. 

FF is about to enter its best 3 or 4 years.

Is this the first (and only) appearance of the Fantasti-bar?

Is it just me, or did Kirby sneak a Clark Kent cameo into Marvel continuity?

I had forgotten about Doom's Roma background. Being part of a persecuted ethnic group no doubt contributed to his mistrust of humanity.

On 3/24/2024 at 11:53 AM, Hepcat said:

 

Is there a list anywhere of the comics in which Marvel heroes confront the Reds? I'd be willing to build up a collection of those.

There were quite a few Iron Man stories in 1963-64, as I recall (including the origin story) versus the Communists. The Hulk's origin story might count as well. Also, Thor was "Prisoner of the Reds" in an early Journey into Mystery. Even the FF got into the act, with the Red Ghost and his Super Apes. I think Captain America had a story or two set in Vietnam, if you stretch things a bit.

On 3/26/2024 at 10:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

And in particular:

During the Silver Age, DC could let the profits from the Superman line (and to a lesser extent, Batman's titles) carry books whose sales were more modest. I wonder what changed by 1973?

Rather convenient that the Hulk transformed back to Banner in the exact location of his glasses. What are the odds? 

On 3/24/2024 at 12:30 PM, Math Teacher said:

If you've ever read any books like DC's Strange Adventures, you would know that intelligent gorillas were not uncommon.

What was the name of that intelligent gorilla in Doom Patrol? Now there was an interesting character--especially in Grant Morrison's hands a generation later!

Tales to Astonish #60 - Lee, Ayers, Reinman, and Simek

One of my favorite unintentionally funny Ant-Man stories. This is NOT advanced writing aimed at a college crowd. The Ray that gives Gorillas the Intelligence of Humans still makes me laugh out loud when I read it.

Even better: the same ray gives humans the intelligence of gorillas!

On 3/18/2024 at 6:36 PM, Steven Valdez said:

It's not speculative.

"One person I know acquired over 25,000 copies of Conan #1 when it came out. By early 1973 I was giving him $600 for a sealed case of 300 copies and selling them for $5 a pop." His price per case doubled to $1,200 in 1974."

Bob Beerbohm, Comic Book Artist #6 (Feb 1999), Twomorrows.

Two things:

1. Bob Beerbohm was there.

2. His story hasn't changed in over 50 years.

That makes his recollections hard to ignore.

On 3/18/2024 at 1:39 PM, Prince Namor said:

No one is denying Stan promoted the line in a way that made young boys swoon.

But the line started falling apart while he was still there, as shown in the numbers. By 1968, he was only in the office 2-3 days a week (as verified by both Roy Thomas and Stan himself).

Sol Brodsky leaving in mid-1970 made a much bigger impact than people realize, because it was Sol who made the assignments, who scheduled and handled all production, who got people paid, etc., who really was the actual 'ringmaster', and once he left, THAT is when the running of the business started to get disorganized. 

Without Kirby and Romita to write the stories, and without Brodsky to actually run things, Marvel's line of comics not only was no longer 'the House of Ideas' in anything other than name, but also a disorganized mess. Deadlines became an issue, and the numbers went down. 

Stan's part of it as the mouthpiece was still there and at THAT he remained successful... continually telling everyone how great everything was, despite the proof being anything but. 

I get the feeling that Stan Lee was becoming disinterested in the whole superhero phenomenon by the late 1960s. At the end of 1967, he was only doing the equivalent of five books a month (FF, Spider-man, Thor, Daredevil, and the half-book Captain America and Hulk features), farming out the remaining books to Roy Thomas and others (including Archie Goodwin, Gary Friedrich, Raymond Marais, and Jim Lawrence).

His workload increased in 1968 with the expansion of the line but dropped back to five books by late 1969--all done with experienced artists who could carry the bulk of the plotting labor.

Despite the public statements to the contrary, Lee wanted out. No doubt losing Kirby to DC accelerated the process.

On 3/15/2024 at 6:03 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

Look at the 1971 Fan Awards:

 

Stan Lee is favorite editor and yet none of his work is listed... Hmmm

 

--And 85 people voted for Roy Thomas as favorite editor--yet none of the books in 1971 gave him an editor credit. (That would come in 1972.)

Did people in the know realize that Thomas was the de facto editor of the books he dialogued?

On 3/15/2024 at 5:02 PM, bc said:

Those reprints helped this kid get addicted to the late Atlas/early Marvel stories.

I was too young to go to an LCS or con to be exposed to the originals, so I absorbed all those reprint books until I had the ways and means to afford them.

 Never realized that it was nearly 1/2 of the sales, and agree on the profit factor involved.

-bc 

I started reading marvels in late 1973. Same deal--I much preferred the Silver Age reprints. FF, Thor, and Spidey were reprinting 1968 stories. (Tales of Suspense/Tales to Astonish a bit earlier.) Great stuff.