Gatsby77

Oh wow - Liv Tyler's apparently returning.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/captain-america-liv-tyler-betty-ross-1235361579/ 

To be fair, there have been other worse 2nd weekend drops.

Shazam 2's drop of 67.8% isn't as bad as:

• Elektra (-69%)
• Batman v. Superman (-69.1%)
• Jonah Hex (-69.7%)
• The Suicide Squad (-71.5%)
• Steel (-78%)

On 3/25/2023 at 11:44 AM, paperheart said:

Could be worse, tho.

Still not as large a % drop on its 2nd Friday as BvS.

On 3/25/2023 at 10:07 AM, Bosco685 said:

The WandaVision finale killed my excitement for the show. These two (especially the hard-hitting elements of the story with Hawkeye) I really enjoyed.

WandaVision's softballing ending was cringe-worthy dialogue.

• WANDA: "I'm sorry for all the pain I caused."
• MONICA: "I know"
• WANDA: "I don't understand this power. But I will!"
• WANDA: "Goodbye Monica!" 
• MONICA: "Bye Wanda!" 

 

No other way it could have ended.

The show did its job in demonstrating that she was:

1) one of the most powerful beings in the MCU (known to comic collectors following House of M and shown in the MCU when she nearly single-handedly defeated Thanos in Endgame); and

2) She's psychotic - bat-s--t freaking crazy

The *had* to let her go in that moment, as otherwise she would have just disintegrated not just the entire town, but the surrounding area.

Monica understood this, the FBI, etc. understood this - and fandom, the viewers watching at home -- should have understood this as well.

If not, any doubts should have been dispelled by watching her power displays in Dr. Strange: MoM.

My favorite part was when they all went to hold hands together and said,

"It's SHAZAMin' Time!"

On 3/24/2023 at 11:11 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I believe it was Frank Miller who first tied Christian themes into the Daredevil mythos with the Born Again storyline. My theory is that Mr Miller was influenced by the cinema of Martin Scorsese who infused Catholicism and sin into almost everything he did. I see Daredevil Born Again as almost an evolution of Batman Year One, which to me is basically Batman meets Scorsese’s Taxi Driver. My analysis anyway.

Matt Murdock's overt Christianity - and Catholicism - predates Miller.

He meets with a priest to discuss faith in # 119 - and, while I haven't read it in decades, I'm fairly sure he briefly touches on his faith in # 53 as well.

On 3/22/2023 at 9:01 PM, sfcityduck said:

No.  Your argument is falling very flat.  Therealsilvermane says exactly what needs to be said about that.  There are very very few Marvel characters that are truly defined by their ethnicity.  But Black Panther is one of those few.  He's a product of his times and was very intentionally made a black man. Maybe Black Goliath also is one of those characters?  I don't know.

Most of the Marvel characters are only white because when they were created when segregation was still in full effect.  If they'd been created in the present day, they might be anything because their ethnicity is immaterial to their characters real essence.  It is hard to come up with Marvel characters other than Black Panther who are defined by their ethnicity.  I don't think even Storm is based on the way she was portrayed in X-Men.  Her race was never really an issue. Could she be white and still be Storm the X-Man?  I think so. 

I'm ok with black Nick Fury. Heck, Nick Fury was crusading for civil rights in the 1960s so I'm sure Stan and Jack were or would be too.  Does that really bother you?   

This.

Black Panther needs to be played by a black actor because being black is core to the character's identity.

Nick Fury, however, doesn't need to be played by a white actor because his ethnicity is *not* core to his identity in the comics. If anything, it's even more powerful if he's played by a minority because he spent the 1940s - and the 1960s - fighting Nazis.

Similarly, there are many things wrong with the 2015 FF film - but Michael B. Jordan's casting as Johnny Storm isn't one of them.

The core to Johnny Storm's character is he is a rebellious, impulsive hothead. And Jordan captured that perfectly. That the film went one step further and had Sue Storm be the adopted one was interesting social commentary.

It works the other way too, though. I don't remember mass outrage at the news that Sue Storm was being portrayed by a Hispanic woman in the first two movies.

On 3/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, drotto said:

After Shazam, I think all the DCU films this year are going to struggle.  They will do better than Shazam, but do not see either of them clearing $650 million at this point.  The DCEU and all associated with it are dead.  Yet to see if Gunn can revive it.

C'mon...you don't think Blue Beetle is gonna' follow in Aquaman's footsteps and clear a cool billion? 

Maybe 3 minutes?

It’s mad simple:

1) type “Justice League Part” in the search bar

2) Go to page 1

3) Copy your review - which you apparently felt so passionate about, you repasted it into the new thread.

The point?

You liked the theatrical Josstice League better than the BvS extended cut.

Which I only remembered, because I found it surprising at the time.

On 3/20/2023 at 7:52 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Personally, I don't think it would look better with a bunch of holes in the cover.  I'd pay more for a book like that in it's current state than I would post-scraping. 

Agreed.

Depending on the extent of the color touch - and scraping - could come back anywhere from a 4.5 to a 6.0 - but will definitely look uglier.

On 3/20/2023 at 4:52 PM, Bosco685 said:

And I gave BVS a strong review. Not JL. Please keep your negative talking points straight.

Umm...

'Dis you?:

Quote

 

My original review posting the night I came back:

Now THAT was a fun movie!

And when Lois Lane reads that closing statement in the end, the audience actually applauded. I haven't been at a movie this year when the audience applauded like that.

Man, they sure cut some scenes into the film where you could tell there were new ideas. Even more than BvS. But again - THAT was fun!

  

The team coming together and their personality differences learning how to mesh together made this so great to see on film. And Steppenwolf was not that horrible. The mistake they made was no real message beforehand why he was doing the things he did, leading to a later larger threat.

I agree with folks on the credit scenes. The first one is a nice callback to the old comics. Nothing more. But that second one - WOW!!!

Ranking:

1) Man of Steel

2) Wonder Woman

3) Justice League

4) Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut

0) Suicide Squad as a guilty pleasure

Easily a 7.0/10.0 movie with the heart of a 9.0 film.

 

On 3/20/2023 at 4:52 PM, Bosco685 said:

Uhmm... you mean when you kept trashing the film on your continued quest to protect the forum from mean Zack Snyder after you were so disappointed in BVS?

And I gave BVS a strong review. Not JL. Please keep your negative talking points straight.

You gave them both strong reviews.

But the positive theatrical Justice League one was surprising - even for you.

On 3/20/2023 at 5:41 PM, jdandns said:

If it's longtime comic book buyers specifically, I'm saying they don't matter to the producers of the films at all. They (well, we) are a very, very small portion of the ticket buyers for any of these movies, which is a big part of why there is no attempt to cater to us, and why our collective complaints, whether mild or intense, will continue to fall on deaf ears. The non-comic reader ticket sales alone will ensure the movies keep getting made, and those folks lack both ability and reason to complain like us about these matters. 

Exactly my point earlier today in the Shazam thread.

These films are no longer being made for us (as in...old school comic collectors now in their 40s-50s) - but are driven by the general (i.e., non-comic familiar) public.

In the grand (box office) scheme of things, we don't matter.

Yes - non-comic reader ticket sales are down overall - but that's as much due to technology shifts as the quality (or lack thereof) of Marvel Phase IV, etc.

Overall theatrical sales are still down - largely because more folks today have large flat screen TV / home theater setups - and the various streaming services virtually guarantee you can now watch any movie at home just 4-6 months later.

That's a true sea change in how Americans consume movies.

In addition, I think we've past the apex of comic book movies. The best characters have nearly all (The Flash aside) had their stories told on screen, by solid writers and directors.

Superhero movies had an unprecedented 20 year run, from 2000 (X-Men) to Avengers: Endgame (2019).

Hard for me to say whether the peak was 2008 (the twin triumphs of The Dark Knight and Iron Man) or 2012 (Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Chronicle) - but what both of those years had in common was not just truly superior films -- but also genuine excitement about the cliffhangers and road ahead.

Recent product (overall) hasn't been great and (more importantly) hasn't generated rank-and-file excitement about what's next.

Honestly, I think the last year the general public was truly excited about what's next in superhero movies was 2018.

Why?

Because that year we we were just coming out of Wonder Woman, and had Avengers: Endgame, Black Panther, Into the Spider-Verse and Deadpool 2.

All were well-written, well-received and had non-comic book nerds genuinely excited about what was next.

On 3/20/2023 at 2:58 PM, Bosco685 said:

You mean the film they didn't care for, but then later rallied around the Snyder Cut?

?

You gave the theatrical cut a glowing review.

Unfortunately lost now to the ether, after you and @Jaydogrulesgot the original thread poofed.

On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Comic book fans affect the box office by telling their family/friends which productions to watch. If I tell everyone not to see it, there's hundreds of people that word is going to reach. Even all of my coworkers specifically ask me if a movie is worth seeing in theaters.

Nah.

If that were true, Justice League Part 1 wouldn't have bombed.

Y'all are vastly overestimating the effect of comic book fans on the overall box office.

Very few people outside of the comic book collecting bubble know, let alone care, that this film - or Shazam in general - won't be part of the new vision for interconnected films 2-3 years from now.

It's not for us - we are not the broader movie market.

Perfect example - once upon a time, Warner Bros. released an exceptional superhero film, knowing it was made for fans of the source material - but would be a *really* hard sell to the general public - due to the no-name heroes and harsh adult subject matter.

That film was Watchmen. It was excellent and it bombed.

Shazam Fury of the Gods was marketed to kids and parents - as a family friendly superhero comedy romp.

It bombed with that audience, on those terms.

The studio neither cared about comic book nerds, nor catered to them with this film - they literally don't care what we think.

Wait - it opened worse than Birds of Prey too?

A silver lining:

Dwayne Johnson's probably feeling *much* better about Black Adam today.

These numbers are incredible.

Even Green lantern (2009) and Josh Trank's Fantastic Four (2015) each did better than $50 million domestic in their opening frames.

Ghost Rider did $45+ million back in 2007 - and that movie was garbage.

I'm happy for Michael B. Jordan - that's a helluva directorial debut.

On 3/18/2023 at 3:50 AM, Bosco685 said:

So...audiences think it's better than BvS?

Thank g-d for that!

So...we're supposed to believe this will be released in just over 2 years…

With zero cast announcements so far?

Even if the screenplay's finished, that's still a tight deadline.

On 3/15/2023 at 7:22 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Okay, so 3 Shazams protect 1 Mother Box each.

That leaves 3 Shazams to fight the 3 goddesses, then there's a dragon and some ogres.

I guess if the Mother Boxes are in this movie, it'll have tension.

I mean - it could be worse.

They could have had movie posters featuring the six heroes and the tagline “Unite the Seven” - only to have the seventh hero never actually appear because his scenes were deleted in editing.