Gatsby77

Hah! Pretty sure I paid $8 for my 1st Bloodshot 1 -- the same price I paid for my 1st X-O 1 & Magnus 1 earlier on. I remember right before the bubble burst someone sold three longboxes of Valiants to my LCS. While they weren't yet priced, they allowed me to look through them. Full pre-unity run (minus Solar 10 -- the lone copy in there was the 2nd print), with _heavy_ dupes on the # 1s & other early issues, like 10-12 each of Harbinger 1-6, 20+ X-O 1, etc. And the collector was good. Very few unity or post-Unity commons, but heavy dupes on Shadowman 8, EW 4-5, etc. Notably, the set basically ended at Nov. '92, with Bloodshot 1. A solid 100+ copies (1/2 a longbox or so). It was still a $12 book at the time, but I took it as a good sign to get out.

Yeah - I don't really blame folks who pre-ordered cases of Turok 1. It followed the exact same format as Turok 1, but with an arguably hotter artist. Given that Bloodshot 1 sold out on day of release & was selling (in the Philly region) at least for $12 within a month, Turok 1 seemed like a no-brainer. It was the customers themselves who then opted not to buy all the copies they'd pre-ordered when it didn't have a similar pop (wasn't it 1.7 million vs. Bloodshot 1's 600k or so -- or 1 million _more_ copies?) and a ton of comic stores were left holding the bag.

Quick -- stockpile the other Top 10 books, like New Warriors 1+2, Darkhawk 1, Gen 13 mini # 1! My favorite of Wizard's speculation "spotlight on" column was back when Marvel made the big media splash with Northstar coming out as gay in Alpha Flight 106. Wizard pointed out that DC did it more than a year earlier when the Pied Piper came out to The Flash in Flash vol. 2 # 53 (also a Superman v. Flash race issue). Like a sheep, I went out & got like 7 copies of Flash 53, only to see it do nada. Cool story though (both on the Superman & Pied Piper fronts).

What strikes me about that list is that HARD Corps # 1 -- which had the then-highest print run for a Valiant comics & a great Jim Lee gatefold cover, clocked in right above Spectacular Spider-Man 189, which went to a 2nd printing. Also note Man of Steel 17's paltry showing at # 97 on the list. EDIT: Just noticed that this was my high school collecting heyday. I bought 23 of the top 25 books of the month off the shelf for cover price, 10 of them in multiples. (Damn the Ghost Rider polybags & X-Men X-cutioner's Song polybags in the same month.) Wow...

Exactly -- per GPA, those 10 recorded sales in 2014 averaged out to $337. In 2015, there was a sale in Feb. at $339. It's just disingenuous to say "sales of $300-$400 even before the announcement" when the average over 15 months & 11 recorded sales was consistent at $337. In my mind, $337 is a far cry from $350, let alone $400. Per GPA, the low was $300 and the high was $395 in 2014. Despite an average of $337, "sales of $300-$400 even before the announcement" seems like an accurate statement. If you click on the link within GPA, it gives you that same range for 2014 - $300-$395. I don't think he was disingenuous at all. [/quote Exactly what I was thinking. Maybe disingenuous doesn't mean the same thing to you and I that it does him? Maybe in slang disingenuous means 100% accurate nowadays? Jim I stand by my statement because I've been actively buying Harbinger 1s (raw and slabbed) since December. I know the pre-movie announcement market (raw, as well as CGC 9.2-9.8) extremely well. And the fact was there were at least 5 copies of Harbinger 1 in CGC 9.8 available via well-known dealer &/or auction sites that were sitting unsold for weeks at $325 asking prices a month ago today. Nobody wanted them (December to present) at those prices. _I_ didn't even want them, and was waiting for a true auction that I thought would would finish in the $290-$310 range. So instead I bought raws, a few CGC 9.2s, a 9.4 and (I'm glad) a 9.6. Sure...maybe this was a cyclical downturn, due to post-holiday doldrums as folks typically pay off their Dec. credit card debt, but it's not a "$300-$400" book if _multiple copies_ sat unsold at $325.

Exactly -- per GPA, those 10 recorded sales in 2014 averaged out to $337. In 2015, there was a sale in Feb. at $339. It's just disingenuous to say "sales of $300-$400 even before the announcement" when the average over 15 months & 11 recorded sales was consistent at $337. In my mind, $337 is a far cry from $350, let alone $400. Likewise, considering that three weeks ago there were literally three copies sitting unsold at $325 BINs via eBay alone. While one $325 sale shows up in GPA the day of the announcement, the others may not if they were sold via Lone Star, which often cross-posts books to their own site & eBay.

Hah! Bait taken...Now, maybe, but not 25 years ago, around the time the Infinity Gauntlet came out. A book no one cared about shot from $8 to $55 to as much as $150 in less than 90 days. It was a big deal at the time for IM 55 to surpass IM 1 in both price and demand.

Patently false. The week before the announcement 4-5 copies CGC 9.8 copies sat unsold at ~$325 Buy-It-Nows on eBay & at least one retailer site, while the CGC 9.6s sat unsold at $100 Buy-It-Nows but sold for about $78 at true auction (with the occasional $100 true auction for 9.6). There's a world of difference between "sold for $300-$400 in 9.8" and "sat for months unsold at $325 BIN asking price in 9.8"

I will find it absolutely ludicrous if, simply because VEI does not have the license to the Gold Key characters, Magnus 5 (1st appearance of Rai) ends up being far more valuable than either Magnus 0 (origin, 1st Valiant incentive) or Magnus 12 (1st Turok) just because Rai *may* appear in a movie 3-4 years hence. No problem with it being more valuable than Magnus 1, since I believe it's also notable for being David Lapham's first professional work, and Stray Bullets was awesome. But for Magnus 5 to overtake Magnus 0 & 12 for me would be right up there with Iron Man 55 overtaking Iron Man 1 for a spell. Oddly, I don't feel that way about Solar 3 or Solar 10 -- each deserves to be more valuable than Solar 1, and -- back in the day, each was. Harada is a keystone villain & the print run is far far less than that of Shadowman 8. It's a major disturbance in the force to have half of the pre-Unity books (the bulk of the Magnus & Solar runs) no longer as potentially valuable as those of the other lines simply because today's collectibility is movie hype driven.

I don't doubt your experiences, but I have the opposite view. I have always, always, straight back to 1993, seen fewer Rai 3s than 4s. And still do today. +1 That's fair. I have always held the books co-equal as "semi-keys" in my mind (i.e., for relative scarcity only & a tier down from Harbinger 1, Magnus 0 & 12, & Solar 10). They peaked in the Philly region at $65 each back in '93. Through passive collecting over the years, I've now got 6 copies of # 3 vs. only 2 copies of # 4, and I never paid more than $8 per.

Yeah - the 43's an 8.5, so I left it off. 29's the real one that drove me crazy. That's by far the hardest one to find in strict 9.0+ -- a 3+ year gap between 28 & it, and no painted cover = nobody collected them. If anyone has a line on 33, or 43 in strict 9.2 or better, I'll pay stupid money. Heck, I'll even trade you some VEI movie-related first appearances

What grade is the #1? 9.4 But the # 2's a 9.8 The single 9.4, with only a single 9.6 above it... wow. Yeah...but it's only off-white to white. Proud of my set: http://comics.www.collectors-society.com/registry/comics/PeopleSetDetail.aspx?PeopleSetID=44535

What grade is the #1? 9.4 But the # 2's a 9.8

All I know is people done lose their minds with movie hype. If Spawn 9 can spike, I have no doubt that some of those 1993 mega-print Valiants can as well. Bloodshot 6 is already garnering $15+ on eBay. That's close to what it peaked at back in 1993. And I (barely) restrained myself from ordering 15 copies of Shadowman 8 at $8 per the other day. Not because I believe in the book (which is the opposite of rare), but because experience shows it will only go higher over the next three years. Sigh...at least I've got this:

I'd love to see interest in the Gold Key Magnus, as I've got nearly the full run in avg. CGC 9.6. Alas, I think it's close to the bottom of Dreamworks' list now. The Dynamite Magnus book isn't bad, and is arguably better than Jim Shooter's take for Dark Horse. Wish I could say the same for Turok

I'm interested in tracking movement in Harbinger 17 or 18 -- whichever one was the first Livewire. Wizard hyped it back in the day but it was close to the peak of the Valiant print runs, & I think it had a 400k+ print run. Never thought I'd see the day it might become more than a $.25 book...I'm also pretty sure my lone copy is only about a 9.2 due to my not caring about it like I did Harbinger 0-10.

Thanks, Greg! And can you confirm the commentary in one of the issues that Magnus 12 & Harbinger 1 were ranked # 16 & 17? Weird that the 2010 estimate for Solar 7 is as high as 50k given that we were all told back in 1992-'93 that Harbinger 1 (not on the list) had a print run of just ~35k. I also recall that everyone thought Rai 4 was rarer than Rai 3 until the ranking came out in Valiant Voice. Anecdotally, I always found more Rai 3s than Rai 4s, but Wizard was the one annointing Rai 4 as the rarest for a hot spell there...

Yeah, but what's gonna' be insane with this Valiant movie hype, minus Magnus, Solar & Turok, is most of the 1st appearance keys are post-Unity, w/ 100k+ print runs. We're gonna' see books w/ insane print runs for today that peaked at maybe $15 in 1993 reach $50-$60 or more. Literally $.50-$2 for the last 15 years.

Believe it was spread over three consecutive issues of Valiant Voice, fairly early on, the 15 lowest-print regular issues, listed out 5 per over three months. Books I remember on the list include Rai 2-5, Harbinger 4, Solar 9, Shadowman 2. There was also a note that two of the then-most valuable books, Magnus 12 & Harbinger 1, clocked in at # 16 & 17 "rarest." In contrast, as previously noted, A+A 0 was by far the highest-printed of the pre-Unity issues.

1) Very cool stuff! 2) Your letter that references the two Gold books (A+A 0 & EW # 1) is further evidence of my contention that they were released at the same time. Yes, A+A 0 came out before EW 1. But Valiant, never distinguished between them when first distributing them at shows, to fans by mail, etc. They're tied (with the EW 1 embossed coming out a few weeks later). I'll never win this battle in the marketplace because 20+ years later logic would dictate that the A+A gold would have been produced before the EW due to the regular books' cover dates, but the reality is Valiant wasn't yet that organized. The books actually appeared a) together and b) a bit later on. Same thing: Harbinger 0 (pink) isn't technically a pre-Unity book, as it was so delayed it wasn't actually released until after Harbinger 10 was on the stands. It makes sense to consider it pre-Unity, as its print runs were tied to the 1-6 coupon redemptions but it took a lot longer to appear than did Magnus 0 after Magnus 1-8. Later on, yes -- the incentives came out the same day of release -- I specifically recall Predator Magnus Platinum & Deathmate Prelude Gold being shipped with the original books. But not so in the beginning.

I'm surprised that the print run of Harbinger 5 is shown as lower than that of 4, given that back when Valiant itself was publishing their list of "15 rarest" (regular) issues, Harbinger # 4 was listed as having the lowest print run after Rai 2-5.

Valiant is calling those "throwback" covers. I haven't updated the website in a long time, but there are 4 listed here: http://valiantfan.com/quickview/show/throw Greg -- do you have a similar quick guide to the throwback covers that Acclaim did that one month? The one that comes to mind immediately is the Bloodshot. Vol. 2 issue that was an homage to Nick Fury # 1.

Hah! The only "legit" Valiant Gold I own (as in, won as a giveaway) is also an Armorines Gold. It was during the Deathmate tour at my local comic shop, & I think it was Bernard Chang asking the questions. Basically, they were giving Golds to people who could name members of the H.A.R.D Corps beyond the basic four. Forget who I said to win it, but my copy is double-signed, albeit pre-CGC.

Well, mess. Magnus 0 was always my favorite.

For those of you who doubt that there are thousands of raw AF 15s out there, what % of Hulk 181s do you believe are still raw? May seem like a specious comparison but it's not. Because the logic I keep reading here seems to boil down to "no one would keep such a valuable book as AF 15 unslabbed." And my (informed) opinion is that's hogwash. So seriously -- do you folks believe that more than 20% of Hulk 181s are slabbed? 50%? 80%? Yes -- most dealers would likely slab an AF 15 before selling it. But I submit that most collectors would not. Slabbing is still a very small sliver of the market, regardless of whether the books are modern, silver age or golden age. And yes -- that pertains to books worth $1k (or $5K)+ as well.