Gatsby77

Wait, Venom's marketing budget was $127 million? Day-um.

In which Scott Mendelson cites $405-$410M as the domestic floor for Captain Marvel even if it slows down from its current Hunger Games/The Dark Knight pace to a more moderate Catching Fire/Dark Knight Rises one. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/03/27/captain-marvel-brie-larson-box-office-disney-avengers-suicide-squad-deadpool-wonder-woman/#30801a071c5a Either way, it's at $327.9M through yesterday.

And that Batman is The Dark Knight.

This has nothing to do with my -- or your -- anecdotal experience. The box office numbers simply don't bare that out. "People didn't know Man of Steel was a Superman movie because 'Superman was in the title" is one of those theories that sounds good, but doesn't reflect the facts at the time. - As I noted, Warner Brothers spent ~$75 million promoting the film domestically, beginning with two different teaser trailers that ran before The Dark Knight Rises a full _11 months_ before its release. If you saw Dark Knight Rises, you knew this was a Superman film. Period. - As I noted, Man of Steel made money domestically than Superman III, Superman IV, or Superman Returns -- even after adjusting for inflation. - It was the number five box office film of the entire year, in a year that included Frozen, Iron Man 3. and the most successful Hunger Games film. - It was also one of only three films that year to open to more than $100 million domestically -- the other two were (naturally) The Hunger Games: Catching Fire and Iron Man 3.

No. Nothing I said was inaccurate. Venom was # 1 at the box office its first week...and its second week. And then fell to # 3 in its third weekend -- against Halloween (which opened to # 1) and A Star Is Born (which did indeed open the same week as Venom, but rose to surpass it in their respective third weekends). Call me when Captain Marvel finishes third this weekend.

Yes - Captain Marvel will be taken down by a low-budget horror movie by an Oscar-winning director headlined by an Oscar-winning actress that's one of the most anticipated films of the spring. As I recall, Venom got taken down not just by a low-budget horror movie in week 3 (Halloween) but also by a Lady Gaga musical (A Star Is Born). Given that Captain Marvel will pass Venom's international total umm...today...I'm not sure the comparsion is apt. Let's stick to Wonder Woman / Aquaman for comps. Wonder Woman because it was a well-regarded female-led superhero film that passed $400M domestic at the box office. And Aquaman, because while it fell well short of $350 million - let alone $400 million domestic -- at the box office, it easily surpassed $1 bn. globally At this rate, Captain Marvel will pass Aquaman's total domestic take by next Saturday.

It's like you're a groundhog, popping up again only when movies you don't like surpass $800M worldwide.

Due respect, but the bolded statement is hogwash. That's like saying folks don't know James Bond films are Bond films -- or that folks didn't know there were two other Nolan-directed Batman films because "Batman" wasn't in the title. And it ignored that Warner Bros. spent at least $75 million marketing the film. And that the film went on to make well over $600 million worldwide, and more domestically (even after adjusting for inflation) than any Superman film since Superman II.

Nah. 'Cuz then Disney would have to admit that Fury Jr. was adopted, Sue Storm-style.

I stand by Iron Man 3, just as I stand by *almost* every Shane Black film. But it was *extra* sweet to hear the lamentations of fanboys when Mandarin was revealed to be Killian. Umm...And Liam Neeson / Ducard was Ra's, fools. Equal misdirection -- and whitewashing of Asian villains to boot.

To add to the apparently massive cabal of bitter Mandarin fans...

Exactly. Bosco - this is what I meant. As an actor, I think ATJ did more with less. Peters was decent in scenes that were 10x better written than what ATJ had to work with, but nothing spectacular. Esp. compared to the stuff Peters has shown us he could do in American Horror Story.

I thought Aaron Taylor-Johnson was a better Quicksilver actor, but that the Fox X-Men character was better written. Put Aaron in as the Quicksilver portrayed in the X-Men films, and you win.

Good call. Did we ever see Rogue fly in the films? I honestly forget.

Yeah - as Binary, she really did have the power of a star.

Huh? Did we watch the same film? She overcame: - the challenge of becoming one of the military's first female test pilots - amnesia - adjusting to earth - brainwashing / betrayal by those closest to her - inhibition of her powers Just because most of her trials were psychological rather than physical doesn't mean they weren't there, front and center, and integral to her character arc.

I still maintain that it would be amazing if Endgame

This. I still think he’s more butt-h##t about the _chronology_ in which her origin is depicted than the argument than that it wasn’t sufficiently explained. That she’s introduced as a veteran Kree space warrior and then (later) we’re shown the radioactive explosion that gives her her powers. God help us if the next Green Lantern film opens with a veteran Hal Jordan busting stuff up in space with the rest of the Corps!

I don't recall any explanation of Wolverine's powers in the first X-Men film, nor do we see him struggle with them. We're just asked *accept* that this bare-knuckle brawler up in this Canadian bar has this healing power.

Wait - you mean...she slowly discovers the true extent of her powers over the course of the film? Like...Wonder Woman?

Okay - I confess. I meant it yesterday when I noted I was impressed that no one in this thread had (yet) literally accused Ms. Marvel of being a "Mary Sue." It was bait - a trap. Because she's *obviously* not -- you can't be a Mary Sue if you've literally been more powerful than Superman since your introduction -- but just umm...happen to be female too. Ms. Marvel's been one of Marvel Comics's most powerful (earth-based) heroes since her introduction um...more than 50 years ago. The only one I can think of off-hand who is more powerful is The Sentry. That's it. She's been that powerful, she is that powerful. End of story. Film-wise, ror instance, I didn't see Loki go through any struggle w/ his powers - he's just a god. Period. Ditto Hela in Ragnarok. Carol's intro had far more backstory (even depicting her pre-powers struggles) than either of those villains. If Sentry were introduced to the films, would folks be whining so loud? And if so, would it be more because a) he's a Gary Sue plot device; b) a D-list character - that old-school collectors couldn't stomach saving the likes of Thor, Iron Man or Spider-Man; or c) that folks missed out on hoarding his first appearance while they were so certain it would be Warlock, not Captain Marvel or Sentry ?

Yup. Especially since the finale of the Justice League movie has Superman basically just show up and end it -- the rest of the team is literally superfluous.

He's a Mary Sue. Duh! And powered by a McGuffin!

Scott Mendelson may be my hero. His latest Forbes post -- "Why the Success of 'Captain Marvel' Is Terrific News for 'Star Wars: Episode IX'" - essentially destroys many of the troll-fed negative arguments about both Captain Marvel and The Last Jedi. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/03/19/box-office-captain-marvel-brie-larson-star-wars-episode-ix-last-jedi-disney-lucasfilm-solo/#6fac08c76be6 "Captain Marvel has earned over $270 million domestic in ten days of release. This despite a deluge of folks who attempted to turn Brie Larson’s comments about wanting to see a more diverse group of movie journalists covering the movie into accusations that the movie wasn’t for white men and/or that white men wouldn’t be invited to early screenings. The $150m-budgeted flick has earned over $500m overseas in just under two weeks of global play. This, despite fabricated rumor-mongering concerning Disney and Marvel’s misgivings with the movie and with Brie Larson’s star performance. The Anna Boden/Ryan Fleck-directed sci-fi actioner may top $800 million worldwide as early as today. This despite coordinated attempts to review-bomb the film on various opt-in user polls at Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and IMDB." ... "What the Internet thinks about something, especially when it’s merely a handful of tweets or Facebook posts, isn’t indicative of the general moviegoing populace." Mendelson goes on to note (as I have repeatedly) that the 1/3 drop in worldwide box office from The Force Awakens to The Last Jedi was on par with the 1/3 drops from both Star Wars to Empire AND the Phantom Menace to Attack of the Clones. And goes on: "There are plenty of critics, pundits and consumers who didn’t like The Last Jedi for subjectively valid reasons, just as I didn’t care for The Force Awakens. But the sheer outpouring of online troll-driven criticism, much of it clouded in sexism and racism (along with an odd inability to accept the notion of Luke Skywalker as anything other than an idealized Jedi superhero) made it hard to discuss the film both for those who loved it and for those who, with no malice or ill-intent, did not. Star Wars XIII earned $620 million in North America from a $220m debut weekend and eventually earned $1.335 billion globally. It made almost as much domestically as Aquaman ($334m), Bumblebee ($125m) and Mary Poppins Returns ($171m) combined."

See...here's the thing. Captain Marvel is very much analogous to Green Lantern...because it's *not just* the Tesseract that gives her the power -- it's the stone *in combination* with the human resilience that she possessed all along -- this is clearly explained by Yon-Rogg. It's not just the stone -- it's that she is also particularly worthy to wield it too. The combination is what gives her the power. Your other complaint seems primarily that we don't see her struggle with her new-found power. That presumes that we have to see that in every superhero origin movie. We don't. Particularly because the film itself starts when she's already a seasoned Kree space warrior, and then flashes back to events in her life when she was a mere mortal.