PunsRTonsOfFun

Not a fan of 9.5 grade and I'm cynical enough to say it exists only for Gem Mint population control. The problem is, the difference between 9.5 and 10 is far too minimal to be anything more objective than a coin flip.

LOL...I trust CSG significantly more than PSA or BGS to identify an altered card. There are THOUSANDS of altered and fake cards in PSA and BGS slabs right now. The very first card PSA ever graded was altered and they didn't catch it.

On 7/14/2022 at 12:56 AM, Thomas J Beard said:

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I'm especially interested in any comments from CSG on this topic!   I think they're doing everything right in my opinion.  Very responsive customer service, great turnaround time, beautiful slabs, re-grading cards from other graders, etc.  In no way am I suggesting they should ease up on their grading standards, it will pay off in the long run.   What happens when it becomes common knowledge that PSA is the easier grader?  

That already is common knowledge, which is why they're (unfortunately) the most popular grading company. I'm with you when it comes to the many positives CSG brings to the industry, but unfortunately, there's more money than brains in this hobby. It's going to be tough for anyone to dethrone PSA. BGS and SGC have tried for 20 years. I'm not saying PSA deserves that top spot, my opinion is actually to the contrary, but getting them out of that top spot will be difficult unless more collectors wise up.

On 4/27/2022 at 4:56 AM, northkorea said:

For me, I think the 9/9.5/9.5/9.5 *should* be 9.5. That was my contention with this entire "All 9.5 are now 10s, but all 9s are still 9s" thing.

I'd disagree with this. The new Mint+ (9.5) designation should be reserved for cards with two 9.5 subgrades and two 9 subgrades, cards that just missed Gem Mint. I know you're talking about the Min Gem vs True Gem malarkey, but that was only made possible because of the transparency subgrades provided, a playing field PSA and SGC never participated on. It was a ridiculous nuance then and it is now. It's one of the main reasons I'm glad CSG did away with subgrades.

On 4/24/2022 at 6:33 PM, northkorea said:

Based upon the 10s CSG has popped all over social media, I definitely think grading standards have dropped.

I'm curious how you know those are new vs reholders?

On 4/11/2022 at 11:00 PM, northkorea said:

I posted this in another thread, but I figured that you asked to see how their standards were lowered. Here goes:

So they basically aligned their centering grades with PSA and SGC. Considering how strict they were, that was probably a smart decision. CSG is still very difficult on surface and this doesn't change them being the toughest grader in the industry. 

On 4/11/2022 at 4:20 AM, Josh66 said:

I sent in 880 cards. Most of which 2020+ cards and didn't get a single 10. Not only do they have a new label, they secretly lowered all of their grading standards. So all of the original buyers get screwed. But you will have goofs like PunsRTonsOfFun shill relentlessly.lmao 

Again, either show proof they lowered their grading standards or pipe down. I find it hilarious you don't understand what they actually did here. And sadly, collectors like you who don't really understand grading are the reason they had to do it.

On 4/11/2022 at 4:26 AM, Josh66 said:

My company will be filing a class action lawsuit against CSG, and you're welcome to join. Not only did they change the entire look of their slabs, they SECRETLY lowered ALL grading standards and bumped up 9.5 cards to 10's. And the new 10's are EASIER to get now than 9.5s were. This company needs to and will be sued 

You realize a 9.5 in the old label was Gem Mint just like a 10 in the new label, right? Your cards aren’t getting a bump. The grade (Gem Mint) just now corresponds to a different number on a scale. They could have switched to letters with A being Gem Mint, it doesn't change the condition of the card. The actual number is irrelevant, it's the grade (Gem Mint) that matters. Then again, I suppose if people actually understood this, they wouldn’t have needed to change it.

Also, where is your proof they lowered standards and 10s are now easier to get?

On 4/5/2022 at 10:58 PM, Karl_Racki said:

which is ridiculous.. It's a Match Attax card which was taken right from a pack. 

If that's the case, it was probably a manufacturing error. 

On 3/28/2022 at 10:23 AM, Scottish Punk said:

From what it looks like, and the board can correct me if I am wrong, is that the Mint+ is essentially a new grade.  What this means in actual grading will be interesting going forward. Since they have this new buffer between what is now a 9 and 10, will they hand out more 9.5s.  I I have a couple 9's with subs 9.5,9.5,9,8.5.  Surface being 8.5.  May take those out and check for prints/smudges and try them again. Also, have one with 10,9.5,9,9.  That seems like a shoe in for 9.5.  Since CSG isn't doing subs, I bet you will start seeing a lot of the "stronger" 9's become 9.5s especially since they aren't automatically making it a 9 because the sub grades tell them so.  We shall see how the market reacts to all this.  I am a collector, so 9's on modern cards are perfectly fine with me, those are Mint cards anyways.

I think this is their intention, however, Glen is right that they didn't change the grading scale definitions to match this. They're reholdering all legacy 9.5s Gems to new Gem 10 labels, but the scale definitions aren't the same. Unless, going forward, the Pristine definition IS the standard for the new CSG 10 Gem. Which, if that is the case, this change was a waste of time because so few cards will receive a 10 that people will stop sending cards to CSG. Collectors don't want a collection of 97% Mint+ cards and 3% Gem Mint.

On 3/28/2022 at 10:35 AM, Scottish Punk said:

My take with the subs.  They slow the process down in two ways.  One is just simply the transcribing of the data entry throughout the process.  The other and more time consuming part which is the grading.  I think people are mistaken in that they grade the same way with our without subs.  WIth subs, they are grading the four parts individually and than coming up with the grade as you describe.  I think the current way and without subs is that they look for flaws and just kind of deduct from gem from there.  You don't need to be as precise with his component.  Card looks great outside of soft corner and slightly off center.  Give it a 9.  Don't need to worry about scoring 10,9.5,9,9 or whatever.

Way back when I first started grading, I loved Beckett and their subs.  I come to realize the subs just aren't worth the hassle.  Instead of one subjective grade, now you get 4.  Also, it makes really focus in on the one sub that is bad instead of just seeing a "9" (if one sub is 8.5 for example).  This causes you want to upgrade or resend in a perfectly great card to try to get a bump on one sub.  The only thing the subs are good for is to give you an idea on what the issue was that kept it gem.  Like realizing CSG blasted me on surface for a lot of Chrome/Prizm that kept cards to a 9.

The other problem with subgrades is this Min Gem vs True Gem malarkey. PSA and SGC were so smart to not provide subgrade transparency and keep things simple. Good riddance...

On 3/25/2022 at 2:46 PM, JohnBurke said:

This would make sense.. although I guess if you don’t have sub grades on a current green 9 then there would be no way to tell what it would get. 

Correct...I guess you could consider it a benefit for people who ponied up for subgrades.

On 3/25/2022 at 2:42 PM, DylKyl said:

So would this count as a gem meant 10 if sent in or a perfect 10?

This would be a Gem 10, not Perfect. Perfect requires all four subgrades being 10s.

On 3/25/2022 at 2:23 PM, Tails01 said:

Just to clarify (again),

This will automatically cross to a Gem Mint 10 with the new label, correct?

I just send it in for the $10 reholder fee?

It's just $5 until 6/30/22, not $10.

On 3/25/2022 at 2:17 PM, micky 8 said:

thats great I think thats gonna make alot of people happy seeing there 9.5's turn to 10's!  worth the 5$, so will a 9 be a 9.5 mint plus? 🤔 ha who cares a little curious tho 

This is a great question. If 9.5 Mint+ are green 9s with two 9.5s subgrades and two 9s subgrades, I'd send them in for the reholder boost too.

On 3/25/2022 at 1:00 PM, Ryan Snyder said:

The Rep I spoke to on the phone indicated that all reholders will be cracked open and not guaranteed to cross at any specific grade and advised not sending in the 9.5 that were previously gem mint?

 

Can you clarify? @CGCRyan

 

Similarly a 9 with subgrades of 9 and 9.5 may cross into a 9.5 in the new black label as well?

 

 

The changes CSG announced today are great and change the game in the grading industry, but they will become problematic if we get two different answers from two different resources.

On 3/25/2022 at 12:58 PM, JohnBurke said:

So green label 9.5s and green label pristine 10s are being lumped into the same category then? And this data will be combined in the pop report? So that kind of cheapens a black label gem mint 10 compared to a green label pristine 10 right?

Correct...it was sort of dubious differentiation to begin with. The difference between a Pristine and a Gem Mint was one subgrade and a half point.

On 3/25/2022 at 12:49 PM, KB! said:

CSG needs to waive the reholder fee for those customers that spent an extra $10 per card for subgrades.

This is a great idea and would be a nice gesture for early adopters who might feel slighted by this change.

On 3/25/2022 at 12:37 PM, MountainG said:

What does it look like with subgrades? Holy hell thats going to be a mess.

They got rid of subgrades.

On 3/25/2022 at 12:18 PM, Jee Su Chang said:

I am curious with the new scale, when you reholder existing 9.5s, will they become 10s automatically since that is now Gem mint?

I posted this question in the Ask CSG forum. Waiting for them to review it and post a response here.

Love the new label. Quick question regarding the reholder offer. Will cards previously graded 9.5 Gem Mint cross to Gem Mint 10 if submitted for reholder? Or will only previously Pristine 10s cross to the new Gem Mint 10? I'm hoping Gem Mint is still Gem Mint with this change CSG is just changing the scale to eliminate confusion in the hobby and match the competition.

People have to stop being so short sighted and understand this is a marathon, not a sprint. CSG is just one year in and they already have a pop report, reputation as the toughest grading company, and the best slab (not label) in the industry. That's a pretty great first year and a solid foundation to build upon.

On 3/22/2022 at 10:17 AM, Jee Su Chang said:

Personally don't mind the label but can't ignore the haters as resale prices are reflecting that. I see HGA cards slabs sell for more than CSG on eBay and that makes no sense other than people must want those labels.

I personally think it's ridiculous that people care so much about the slab label as it's the card that actually matters. PSA labels are boring, Beckett labels are ugly, and SGC labels are bland. However, your point about HGA is an excellent one and shouldn't be overlooked.

Incredible work, CSG! I noticed Gemrate started tracking CSG now and you were second in total cards graded last week (2/28). That's awesome! Keep it up!