Mmehdy

Good point Lou. However, if you had a early graded book say 2005/6 you could upgrade with the new pressing and other allowed restoration just like the A1 which I think went from 8.5 or 8.0 to 9.0 and over 3 million dollars. So at worst you could off-set the changes the CGC makes over the years with 2020 permissible upgrades.. Those changes are acceptable to me provided that it does not dilute the meaning of a blue label. I believe the more upfront CGC is with its grading standards, the more stable the GA/SA market can become. The ability to buy a GA/SA book by a flipper or grade pumper will be decreased by the fact we are entering a downward GA/SA comic book market for quite some time. So even if the flipper buys a 8.5 and make it a 9.0 the decrease in price over the time to steroid it and regrade it could make any potential profit go away. I do not believe any board member cannot deny we at just the very early start of a series of economic Domino's . People tend to deal only with the issue squarely in front them and do not look at chess moves down the line, Lou, but these flippers are gonna get the message eventually and hopefully leave our Ga/SA comic book world to the real collectors, who love GA books for what they are, not widgets. I think the word is out Lou, that government reports have concluded that the pandemic will last 18 months or longer and could include multiple waves of illness. The first immediate effect of this crisis has been 25% unemployment, this turn will cause a decrease in spending and defaults on payments . So, the second domino will be big and little Bankruptcies as result of this and we just beginning to see. That in turn will effect the stock and credit markets which will tighten and thus the third domino. Once the credit markets tighten, real estate prices will decline similar to 2008, state governments and pension plans are gonna take a hit and need BIG bailouts. So we are far from out this and it is going to be very interesting from here on out. If anybody does not think that GA/SA prices are not gonna to be part of the decline it seems reality will probably change their mind. The real issue before us is deep recession or depression The difference between the two is easy...a depression last longer...our last real depression lasted 10 years 1929-1939. This could greatly decrease purchases of GA/SA comic books for pure speculation or profit and thus diminish artificial demand and make out GA/SA prices more staple and real in terms of true comic book collector demand and value. But I believe Lou, that this could trickle down to the jack up grading which seems to be the rage, especially on high profile mega Ga/SA keys. The economic reward is not going to be as big in a overall long term declining Ga/SA comic book market. maybe sanity will come back to us. I do not doubt that in any Ga/SA purchase, upgrading it must be considered, but I believe that should be considered if you intent to hold the book long term, say 5 years or more given the present conditions. Your take?

I will second that, stay away.

GA/SA Comic book market update: 1- Doomsday Chuck 2-Federal Reserve warning 3-LA shutdown thru August and beyond. 1- Every board member should give a read to Mile High Comics latest new letter, dated MAY 11, Just click on website to latest newsletter. Chuck should renamed Mr. Doom after reading his analysis of the current comic book market and its future. I am not saying that Chuck is 100% wrong here, but wow if he right there will be significant comic book GA/SA market price reductions which at this point has nor been contemplated on this thread. First he makes the point that we are merely at that tip of the iceberg in terms of living the effects of this virus economically. He feels that a large number of comic book stores will go out or business, file for bankruptcy, exceeding 50% or more of the existing stores. That will in turn decrease the demand for new product such to the point it will be financially unsound to publish new comics books for any profit in the future. He indicated that new publishing market was at the "mature" stage on decline on demand and I agree we will never get to that level of circulation again. He believes that the existing comic book stores are Diamond Dependant for survival on new material to bring in customers and generate sales to support keeping open the stores. That he stores being dependent on a single distributor is a market weakness. New material for June will be vary scarce which will make it even more difficult for existing stores to survive. Without new material, future demand for all comic book related items will be impacted. Less stores, less collectors, less demand means over time a smaller comic book world for everyone. My take is this, he speaks some truth and he has been around for many years both as a collector and dealers. Now some of you can disagree with his price structure and I am one of them. But his opinion matters, this man is on the front lines and he has spoken, and we like E.F. Hutton need to listen. We do not have to agree, but we be looking at very foundational changes in very near future which will impact our Ga/SA comic book collector's future. Give it a read and let me know what your opinion is. It would be welcome and appreciated. 2-Federal Reserve warning, I can remember just before 2008 real estate crash, when Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said real estate was not sustainable in terms of price growth and everybody was saying don't listen to him. He was right. Everybody needs to read, understand, and listen to this Federal Reserve Chairman's warning today..the stock market did and declined over 500 points today. Bottom line, we need more money printed and given to business NOW especially comic book stores..or we suffer a long term economic depression/recession. This will impact future GA/SA prices for the next 5 years. We need to get this right. 3-LA shutdown and beyond: image you are a comic book store with no income for 3 more months...different rules in our country now, but man....when and if they fully reopen...please support them or contact them and attempt to buy some of their GA/SA with current market conditions taking into account. SO SO-CAL board members especially make it a point to try to get to the stores once they reopen fully. PS..Lou will respond to your post tomorrow.

classic and adds to your other caption future collection...hope you can get them all..very strong buy.

I like the idea of Digital pictures of the interior..great ...might up the costs a bit, but it should be offered at least as an extra. More information, better buying choice since you cannot really open up the slab to inspect. Probably should have done that all along and will help aiding on paper quality evaluation also. With more information available, the argument about the "color" of the labels certainly diminishes as far as being potentially misleading to the novice or new GA/SA comic book collector. The color does serve a purpose here, and maybe I am old school, but it distinguish restored vs unrestored clearly..except for this Qualified conserved mess, which adds in your argument that the color should be universal. It is so diluted now, and probably even worse in the future as more "exceptions" will be created, it might make staple replacement not as bad.

Market Report Update: Issue: Will inflation make GA/SA comic book prices go up or down or keep flat: Out here is California, I have noticed and a number of my friends have complained that inflation has already began to take effect on Grocery Food Prices, Cleaning Materials, and Take Out food. At least here the prices rises have been 20/40%. I will give you an example, Out here is CA we have a market called Sprouts, its sort of a second rate Whole Foods. We shop for just about the same things each time. Even before the Virus hit, we would guess what out total would be. Our old price was about $118 per shop. When the virus hit, but no lockdown I notice a slight increase in that total to $138.00 but shrugged it off. When panic hit in buying just before the lockdown it was $158.00 for the shop...same one, different day. One month into the lock down, the bill was $178.00. Yesterday, it was $218.00. For example, I like a small frozen pizza that I have been getting for years. Prior to the virus, for say the last year or it was $5.99 regular price and $4.99 on sale. When the initial wave of panic buying stated it was 6.99 and in the middle of lockdown it went to $7.99. It has never been on sale since the virus and yesterday it was $9.99. I also noticed that cleaning product prices have gone up as well as take out food here, especially in the last 30 days. When you spend money, like the government is, and I really do not think they have choice, at some point, somebody meaning me and you are gonna have to pay it back. Paying it back in inflated dollars will be a lot easier for everyone. But we as true comic book Ga/SA collectors have paid our prices in the OLD money...which was not inflated. The extent of this inflation which is coming like a big wave, could decrease out GA/SA comic book collections in terms of REAL VALE, while we exit with same price we paid 2/5/10 years ago. We cannot buy same amount of goods and services we could of 10 years ago with the same inflated money. The converse argument is that if you have cash...a big chuck and you are getting 1% from the bank and the inflation rate is 8% you lose 7% value a year or over 50% in about 7 years. It is a fine line here. If you sell your GA book today, and buy it back with cheaper dollars down the line for the same price, that might not be such a bad thing. If you buy GA/SA comic books and they increase similar to the inflation rate then you have preserved the value of the old money who had. Keep the money in the bank and you lose, buy the wrong thing and you lose, but corrected priced GA/SA comic books and you have a chance to break even or even make a profit thru this crisis. Smart buying buying now might make the overall cost of your entire collection decrease also which means more room to grow and less to lose overall. We have been thru something like this before...not related to a virus, but in past we have lived thru a term called "Stagflation" This will have an impact on our GA/SA comic book price market for some time to come. If anybody out there has some ideas on this subject, We would love to hear you and also if especially ideas about the financial stability of Ga/SA collecting during an stagnation and inflationary period which appears to be upon us right now. Food for thought.

I agree it would be CGC at an advantage, but what would prevent the other services from doing it also and even the playing field and also make the pricing competitive. .It is not a perfect solution but one that might be able down the road to save a high number of GA books from artificially aging and damaging. Any other ideas Knighsfold?

My account for this is simple: Over time the CGC grading system has relaxed. There was a dealer who told me he bought a Gaines file copy of Weird Science about two years ago and that it was graded early on and that he will resubmit, it was 9.6 and it got 9.8 and he did nothing to it...period. I think we have forgotten what a 9.8 really meant, especially in the early days of CGC grading...A freak, a lighting strike, and amazing once in a lifetime buy for any GA/SA book. Grade dilution has occurred slowly over time. A 9.8 is not what it used be. It that a good or bad thing..it depends when you graded your books, especially very high grade GA/SA. With an evolving CGC grading standard downwards you might possess a undegraded cgc book by 1 or two even 3 grades as above. This would apply especially is it was a tight call as to say 9.0 vs 9.2 and it was graded early.. I do not think you could lose by resubmission of a very early high grade Ga/SA book. Now your true only 9.6 copy of Cap #1 has to potentially compete against a 9.0 which has yet to pressed, cleaned, and whatever they can get away with and suddenly the population census of your book is no longer unique which leads to a potential decrease in the market value of your very high grade GA/SA from top copy in the census to one of three. Is it fair no, is it reality..yes. What is the problem? GA/SA comic book value needs to DETACH a major value component of the current GA/SA comic book market price. We now need to discount census EXCLUSIVITY as a major factor in paying over market price just for the fact you have the top graded or 1/2 copies in that grade. Folks anything can happen now. Look 10 years back and fast forward to today and just look at what CGC allows to retain a blue label, Look at the potential of the Franken books taking a 5.0 and making it a 9.0 or higher. I ask to to image 10 years from now..better hidden restoration with a sliding CGC grading scale downward at to what is 9.2 as opposed to a 9.4. Because the difference is so imperceptible, anything goes, but if you look to the last 10 years and forward it to the next ten...lookout you have not seen anything yet. For example the the 8,5 or 9.0 Marvel #1 which was pressed etc into a magical highest grade...If you think that is the only copy coming down the road and you could be into that book almost 1 million because its the current highest graded copy. I think every GA/SA collector needs to examine this issue carefully and NOT over grossly over pay, just because it is the Current highest copy or one of two etc...This is a warning that that premium or extra value paid for High grade exclusivity can be easily erased next week, next month or next year with other brother or sister copies jumping up on the census. That is why, in these incredibly difficult times, when we buy or every sell we must act rationally, responsibly and with economic smartness to build in any possible change or supply in your grade of the GA/SA book that you own, or even future GA/SA books that could surpass your current grade level , despite the fact that they are currently graded under yours in the current census.Using the current acceptable tweaking methods which CGC and Ga/SA collecting community are accepting now and adding future census dilution combined with the unknown factor of new and future restoration methods makes our collecting community subject to purchases which carry much more risk for downside in the future just like the example above Lou.

I agree MM9 on the wanna be list, I still like and love DM 1. The 2 most underpriced timelys Cap 1 and Cap3..well the secret is out on those and anybody who can grab any copy should do so, I still like MM 3 over MM9 however.

WOW what a close call, is it replacement of a non-essential item or is it repair or restoration. In the old time, strict sense any type of modification or repair would give the GA/SA book a restored or purple label. Since it goes to the binding and is not unique to the book itself IF similar staples are interchanged by obtaining the same publisher and year's staples what would be fair. I think this is the toughest call anyone can make, if you add pieces or color touch you effect the book itself, but with staple replacement you still get the same staple and GA/SA comic book. Here is my solution: CGC will allow submission of 2 GA Books and under the supervision of CGC, which can verify that the staples were identical both in age, type, and publisher. The CGC will allow the Ga/SA book a unrestored blue label after staple replacement. Only if they supervise the procedure, and of course charge a fee similar to the pressing service that they offer will the book be verified unrestored. Independent 3d party verification and replacement could really work in this situation. CGC if you listening give that option available to owners of books whom have the possibly of future damage or lower grading due to staple damage. I would support a grade change upwards if the rusty and defective staples were replaced. The Cap # 3 in the upcoming Ha.com auction would make a prime candidate for substitution of staples. Centerfold re-attachment that could be another no-brainer no harm action on this book coming up. CGC centerfold reattachment service?

MY top 10 in order of value...now and in the future 1-Cap 1 2-Marvel 1 3-Cap3 4-MM 2 5-Red Raven 1 6-MM3 7-Cap 2 8-HT 1 9-Sub 1 10- Daring mystery 1 Close but no cigar HT 5 and Cap 5

It makes my argument that you cannot tell any perceptible difference between 9.6 and 9.8 and yet the market has a very significant price differential. I agree with you 9.8 with writing?...next is 9.8 with centerfold loose. This make all the more reason you need to research and vet out, if you can the possible history of a major purchase of any Ga/SA book over 1k. The headlines today say we have a 14.7% unemployment rate and this a joke,it is 25% at a minimum counting the self-employed and it is gonna get worse before it gets better. This is no matter what gonna to impact Ga/SA prices in the long run as it will to most collectibles. If you have the ability to buy GA/SA and you can help out, the hardest hit part of our GA/SA comic book community please try to help. There are a number of comic shop owners who supplement their income by going to comic book shows big and small for additional income.. Some of them depend on that for their very existence to help keep the doors open. I really do not see any well attended or comic book conventions happening this year. Also, you might want to forward you want list to 10/20 comic book dealers and indicate you would interested in acquiring those books, as of course a discount. No offer is a insult during this time of crisis. They have a right to say yes or no. I will give you an example: I have a collector friend that has a book I have been trying to buy from him for the last 20 years and of course, since I want it and its generally impossible to find..l.its 5x times current market price and it goes up every year. However, he will trade for a book he wants at 3x current market price so he can get a little cash thrown in. OK. I have a dealer/collector friend who is looking for that book right now at 1 1/2 times current market price. I want to support this collector dealer who might be able to get the book at retail.and I hope he finds it and makes a profit. Win Win Win for everybody, I could do it myself but I chose not to in order keep him from going under with limited income and bills mounting and no comic book shows to help him lift himself out from the debt. The thing about old friend comic dealers or comic book shops is you dont really miss them until they are gone.As parts of the USA are reopening try to make a effort to support you local store which in the long run will help out all true GA/SA comic book collectors.

Thanks for the heads up and info, 2011 and above is the best I can do. I find something very interesting that you said when this copy came back to the market 2 more times in 2019 and sold for lower prices.... Can anybody call these actions of "pump" upgrading 5 points and same year sales on the same website any form or type of GA/SA comic book collecting at all? If there is anything that could be called a "dark Side" of comic book collecting that would be it. I am glad that CGC could help stop DD and others that would take advantage of GA/SA collectors. LF it is still shocking today, let alone back then and these jacking up the points on a book, or pressing a GA book like a pancake go to the very heart of keeping GA/SA comic book collecting honest and healthy. I for one, would pay less for a book that has undergone grade manipulation. If I recall correctly the Marvel comics #1 which sold this recently on Ha.com for a record price was also a upgrade?

Does anyone know what exactly was done to get the grade up by 5 points...it looked like a but under graded at 4.0...wow that really is playing the system at all of its weakest points. The value difference must be at least double or triple going from 4.0 to 9.0 as well as increased desirability. Is it right? is it just? is it ethical?.....or is it just the bottom line..more $$. BC touched on this subject and I might have been wrong in judging him on his point. Motive...if this was a book that I considered as part of my permanent collection, not resale at any price, would I be justified to upgrade this book. It certainly would be ethical and legal and just. I really like the way HA does it scans, LOL..you might be safer to inspect the book in persons if you are dealing in GA/SA for 4 figures or above. You could imply since it was auctioned at Ha.com when it hit 9.0...that profit could have been a major motivating factor. A very tough issue for traditional Ga/SA comic book collectors to get there head around it. So I issue I see if to upgrade for yourself, your collection or for a future buyer...does that make it any more right or wrong. Something inside me says it is not right just for pure profit. But any true comic book collector should the right to make his copy look better. To me no, it somehow changes things, or carefully directs non declared restoration to create something better but not necessary more real. Cat is right and I am old school, and it let out a heck of long time ago. Time to Mannup and get my attitude right and proper for 2020 and not 1973. There are going to be a lot of wonderful buying opportunities going forward, and some very very rare material could become available as time goes on, so whether buying or selling or even trading get ready to rock and I have to admit one factor that I have not included in my buying decision is possible upgradeability to increase presentation, not necessarily increasing pure $ resale value. Dylan: The times they are a changing and so am I.

I talked to the dealer who found that book and it was in a chest locked away..white white pages he said

If you removed the staples from the book and cleaned them...it that alone considered restoration? conserving and as far as damage goes it depends on the amount of deterioration in that staple to create additional damage.

BC always makes strong effective points and there is some parts which I agree with and some we agree to disagree. It is probably a matter of what you image would be the perfect comic book world would be and what have your past experiences been within that world. In 1966 we started a comic collectors club myself and fellow collector named Victor. Small but dedicated that world was wonderful. I cannot express to you the excitement each we was when it was comic day, looking at the stands with amazement and wonder. Since 1960 we had evolved going up the chain and later, I can remember that Fantastic Four was considered the best illustrated and written comic and that Spiderman was the was most popular by far. My first adventure to a comic book store was in San Jose...and first comic book convention were eyeopeners . The very early years of comic book collectors were amazing and cannot ever be repeated. It is from that foundation, when collectors were considered "dorks" that collectors in the early days had a sort of code of conduct or rules. The number one rule is NEVER tell anybody what you own. It creates more demand and open up their eyes that they should collecting-remember nobody respected comic book collecting and your collection is your business and . 2-never hog in on a deal that is being made, especially at conventions..if somebody is trying by a book you really want...you say, hey..I will pay more and there are several more that I could get into in the early days of comic book collecting on the west coast with a lot of conduct changing over time as the comic book world grew exponentially. Remember, there was no CGC, no protection..constant overgrading but you did not complain because the cost was so inexpensive..and there were negatives, early on not perfect by any means. But you could tell who was with you in the comic book world, who did not care, and who was against you. Fast Forward to today with "spread sheet" comic book investing and flippers, pressers and widget buyers whom we compete with and BINGO a. 2020 Ga/Sa comic book world which takes intelligence, luck and dedication to be a true comic book collector. I myself do not want to venture alone, like the early days of duck shooting in the pond, with everything being so complicated or information based in 2020 and beyond. That is why I and I assume you are on these boards, not to make more money as a flipper, not a widget buyer as they could care less about what we say its the $ that count, No, its to survive all of those artificial competitors who have filled our comic book world with speculation and manufacturing up comic book cgc grades to new artificial heights...just to make profit and that makes Ga/Sa comic book collecting so different in 2020. The collective knowledge of this board and thousands of years combined of comic book collecting will keep our passion, alive, well and healthy towards the future and nobody, unless you were born in or lost relatives in 1918 would have ever dreamed this virus curveball that hit world would be so powerful as to shut countries completely down. This makes our Ga/Sa comic book buying the most riskiest we will hopefully encounter in our remaining lifetime.I cannot and any serious Ga/SA collector cannot conduct business as usual. We are in the unusual, and unknown on a road that seems a bit foggy today...but will everyones input, knowledge and dedication we should come thru this together, better, stronger and smarter.

To me rusty staples is the KOD, no matter what the book is, I can really never understand that replacing rusty stables has such a harsh penalty. What if you took the staples from say a coverless copy and the CGC grader replaced them? There has got to be a way to save the GA BOOK from this destruction similar to what BC has been talking about.

I think the GA/SA market has been very kind to the restored books especially those with minor repairs. In the coin world, there was this old coin clearer in the early 60''s and 70's that made coins look new, it totally destroyed the value of those down 90% to more. On the other hand, I do not believe that current market price differences with unrestored blue books are excessive either. It is actually a pretty far market. The price restored differential really helps collector who are trying complete sets or runs and have been subject to speculation on the yet acquired comic books due to flippers, pressers and widget buyers. So that is a good thing, complete your Action 1-10 with a few restored books and that is quite a run. Of course I do not think those "Franken" books count....which are more unreal than real. If I was a run collector, and that was my goal....I could live with Blue, purple or whatever to get to that collector goal. The only negative thing is when you exit as you have a much greater chance to have a next loss due to the restricted growth of restored books or limited demand. The entry is easy, it will the exist that hurts. As long as you can with that possibility then go for it. I agree batman fan, that books with slight restoration should sell for a LOT more than books whom have been restored extensively.

Supply vs demand...is not just that simple. This is an unusual market condition, where buyers might not act rationally nor normally. For example this virus has taken out a yet unknown number of Ga/SA buyers that will not spend any money because of the uncertain times, it is not that do not want to, or cannot, but they will be afraid of future events financially. The longer this downturn is and the more real it becomes the greater the fear of spending in a recession or depression will set it. Something can be rare or ultra rate and maybe some buyers will outnumber the material available, but that begs the question..how much will a collector be willing to pay...given the financial uncertainly. That is the determining factor here. You might have 5 buyers at 50% of GPA but you probably are not gonna have a single one at 100%. The quality of buyer and his ability to pay decrease as economic downturns continue and that determines the GA/SA current market price.

50 times Action 1 Blue vs purple same condition..I agree it is nuts and lets see that is 64 K vs Over 3 Mil but even 20 times seems absurd. I say 19.5 LOL. I don't want to overcompensate, overreact, over-punish and devalue any comic book with extreme prejudice--what a great comment BC...but I want the price differential to be substantial enough to stop any repair any steroid injecting face changing restoration dead in its tracks. 5x or 10 X 50 times price difference and why BC are you in way hypocritical. Why...I do see you standing on your soap box, saying all of this price differential is unfair when some collectors pays 10 times over market price for a 9.8 or 9.9 as opposed to a single lower grade of 9.6. I challenge you to tell some imperceptible difference that you can even see, let alone JUSTIFY such a great price difference. You cannot, just as the same for you criticism of the price differential from Purple to Blue. This difference is just so ridiculous now we have a Blue that is not truly a Blue but qualified blue and the next step is a blue label that says.."wanna be blue" or "we almost made it blue" That is absurd. Just call it repaired or restored or pressed or whatever and reward books that have not been so aggressively tailored to a collector's GA/SA market. We in need to stand for something, that needs to be recognized as a true antique...like finding the treasures of King Tut's grave. Untouched for thousands of years and as it stands truly a real treasure. King Tut himself would jump out of his tomb if he was a true comic book collector (I guess he might be stone tablets collector ) and saw the face jobs that are being preformed today on some of this GA/SA wanna flip and make an immediate profit based upon label upgrading. That why there is currently litigation which involves CGC and some "ulta" restorers. At what point do you stop saying its a real comic book and its a recreation..that is the nightmare we must avoid at all costs which is why I am so convinced that we must draw a line as to what is really unrestored and what is not. You point is this...The Mona Lisas was restored and my counterpoint is that it had to be to save and preserve it. Not to grade jump and make a good deal on a widget sale. Pressing or hiding or erasing comic book defects 99% has nothing to do with saving it...it has to do with greed and that is by mankind our nature since we had to hoard food survive. Whether you collect food, Ga comic books, if you make one label for all...does the ultra FRANKENSTEIN BOOKS and you know the ones I am talking about...deserve the same label as books which were kept in a pine chest in a attic for 50 years untouched. That is the danger BC of one label for all. Real, Unreal,Recreation etc we must maintain some type of reality as well as rational price to maintain a growing and sustaining GA/SA world. I agree with you that price sanity or rational pricing is BEST for the long run in our GA/SA comic book world. Are prices rational...you submit...in every market some are, some are not, some are good deals, some are not. Before we can get rationalization in price difference between blue, almost blue(qualified) and purple the underlying price structure of the entire GA/SA market is gonna have to remade in terms of price differential on grading itself. BC you have to start there and stop buyers from paying $2000 for SGT Fury 19 in 9.8 with 10 other copies similarly graded or higher to regain some type of market price rationalization. Until that time, the price level on GA/SA will back my opinion rational or not, that we need a "Star Trek Neutral Zone" between restored and unrestored GA/SA comic books in terms of price. Thank you for your very thoughtful comments here, I HEAR YOU and agree with you..to a certain extent...LOL

Food for Thought My counterpoints 1-Restored means what it means ..repaired, upgraded or steroid injected and pressed. Once you lose the reality and let exceptions in as wide as a Mack truck, then we lose the distinction of what it really is. I agree with you that restoration can done out of love, money or unintentionally. But it is still a reality. In real world a comic book that has been pressed or staples replace or a coin which has been cleaned SHOULD not be valued equally to the same book and condition which is free of any alteration. That is fair, that is simple and that is just. I understand that to you the price differences of a A1 9.0 restored should not 50 times the value of the unrestored and that is GA/SA market issue. But that value difference is there for MANY reasons. The principal reason is to STOP any further alteration or suffer a market price reduction reduction. Thank God for that and the thousands of books that have been saved with some minor and some major repairs which will alter what is really is. There is good reason which the penalty is so stiff. Keep GA/SA comic book collecting in real and fair collecting world. Let it be, what it really is. 2-Your comic book dream world is where all comic books are equal under one label, one world, with a so-called penalty of the resulting grade. It will not work, and in fact it will never work. Who determines what to deduct and how much...think about how much damage will created by attempting to hide restoration or increased by the fact that the label will be the same color. Think of the new collector who looks at the same color label and does not comprehend why the price is cheaper. There are a million reasons wrong with that. 3- I do not think restoration is "evil", I think it has the potential to defraud Ga/SA comic book buyers as to what they are really getting for there dollars and in turn could create collectors leaving our GA/SA comic book world with a bad taste in their month. We don't need to lose more GA/SA collectors we need more and new ones replacing us as we move on voluntary or not...LOL CGC has played a very important role in saving our collecting industry for many years to come. Changing a imperfect GA/SA grading world just to create another one which might be fairer or better according to your standards leaves us open for many more problems that we have today. 4-Economic downturns are bad for every type of collectable field because eventually their effects catch up and when they do, natural market conditions will apply. 5-Rich or Poor...myself and a heck of lot of other Southern California's miss going into In & Out burger and just smelling the greatest burger cooking or the best best burrito. You do not have spend riches to get quality...you just have to know where to look and my favorite meals costs $7.25 of which I probably have eaten there 750 times minimum. This virus or economic downturn is gonna hit everybody including the rich, the poor and us in the middle. Collecting is great BUT BC there are some major changes coming to the GA/SA comic book market. How Long, How Bad...that is why we have this thread ...we should be on the forefront of discovering just those answers together.

Good response Counterpoints 1- I do not buy your convenient explanation on restoration by making a tiny repair out of love. BC..not gonna fly,maybe 1% max for that motivation if lucky. Here is the major problem if you do not draw the line in the sand. Over time restoration of GA comic books morphs into something else. call it a excuse or exception because you love it, it called qualified grading, it is called pressing, It has a million names for this excuse for not calling it what is..RESTORED. It is called Action 1 going from 8.5 to 9.0 and over $3 million dollars. This is about money 99% of the time and you know it. I get our point on the danger of unrestored books possibly incurring further degeneration especially I would make the case for rusty staples..should we make another exception, and another an another to further dilute what is unrestored or not..what is reality and a pipe dream. That is the issue, every year as restoration gets better and better the line in the sand moves. I ask you this BC..if it is fair for the true comic collector who paid a premium price not to have their GA book modified with either good or bad intentions have their long term value decreased for any excuse or exception . You seem to focus on the members who own the restored book with an emotional reason, excuse, or exception but what you add to subtracts on the side and we need to consider all sides here. 2-As far as repairing a a GA/SA and converting it to restored to save it...no problem if you truly love the book, sacrifice the value or the label if you truly care about the comic book and not the GPA. I dont see that happening unless you can make a major upgrade if you restore it and again the reason for that could be a money issue for 99% of the up graders. 3- Sorry about the typo 4- I appreciate your evaluation of my opinion which includes or implies it at least I am somewhat consistent over 60 years of comic book collecting. 5- CGC has done much greater good than harm, it has rescued many a collector from disaster. We here a lot about the negative things that get some play taking on the CGC. However criticism directly fairly and evenly gets positive results from the CGC and make the company and out collecting world more efficient. I wish there would be more positive theads involving some success stories. 5 BC-thank you for your kind words about me, I would say the same about you. To everyone who is responding or reading this thread my hat if off to you. We are all in this together.

Great post and valid points. Here are my counterpoints: 1-Quality is determined by a number of factors including rarity, condition, and the very comic book itself. As as GA and SA comic book collector, my opinion is weighted by my childhood experiences as well as my general appreciation of history especially 1938-1945. you do not have to be any type of 'old time tear sealing collector" to demand quality unrestored, untouched comic books as long as you are willing to pay the price. Back in the early 70's when restoration was just beginning and become a major issue, myself and a number of "old school" collectors which were about half that said no...no to greed and promise of riches by doing a "face Job " on you key GA/SA books...just look at the early restorer's adds, CBG and early Overstreet price guides..l and a handful of other true comic book collectors knew deep down inside that it was not right to make something that it is not..just to make profit. It is because of our dedication that we have CGC in existence today to help determine what is real and what is not in terms of "fixing" or restoring..a easier way to put. I will never restore, press, or alter for a higher grade any GA/SA comic book no matter how much profit is to be made and you had better thank the others who agreed with me, otherwise every GA/SA book would have undergone a steroid upgrade. Our GA/SA comic book world would not be as fun or discoverable with a bunch of juiced up GA/SA books getting upgraded every 5 years as the plastic surgery gets better and better. Quality might be the wrong word...how about "Real".it is what is and thank god the GA/SA comic book market prices have recognized that there is a difference...a Big one. 2-There is nothing narrow about my advice, it is universal to both GA/SA, Key, semi Key, or Action #275.. Apparently you have not been reading my most recent posts in Ha about how I thought the large Carl Barks painting in in the last Ha auction reserve price was way too high..it sold at reserve to my surprise. The only book I have raved about since I came on the boards in 2011 was Cap 1 and I still think it is a good today. If you have the opportunity to able to purchase a Cap#1 especially unrestored do not let that pass by you in 2020 and beyond. You are confused, I have not told any collector to buy any specific titles and nobody is ever going to be 100% spot on. My advice both on the buying and selling is simple, buy what you want, what you need but with the abilty to keep that material for 5 years thru unknown times and still be able to maintain your life style prior to the virus. Simple, safe and sane.Cap# 1 value has held and it is not gonna go up every single year, month or day...overtime it will trend upwards. GA is rarer than SA which is rarer than Bronze and that that is the generic structure of our comic book world and cannot be changed. prices should follow accordingly. 3-you should be on board with me on my previous comments on mid range X-Men going for 10x guide as being potentially dangerous with 6/10/15 copies available in the same grade and I agree with you buying 50 variant covers of the same 2019 comic book is going turn to be a loser down the road. 4-Tough advice for tough times, that is what is needed here and together with all of our comments, thoughts, and insight we will make our GA/AS comic book world safer, smarter and closer.

sorry that you lost, but check out the Sat auction for GA/SA there is some good stuff there, something bound to get lost