miraclemet

sold a stack of trades to Ben, he paid in a timely manner, and let me know when the books arrived. Good buyer, sell to him with confidence! Charlie -miraclemet

and transformers as a comparison... well people aren't beating down the door for a Transformers #1 in 9.8, so while there's world wide recognition of the brand, the comic has not had any sort of bump because of the movies (at best it has a nostalgia bump with 30/40-somethings with some $$ to spare) TMNT is a better comp, and the books scarcity kept prices up even when the franchise was not active. Yes TMNT has a third of the books on census, and a much bigger condition spread, but it is a bronze book vs a modern, and it does enjoy a bigger price tag because of it... but the point is TMNT, after the TV show ended, after the movies came and went, after Vanilla Ice finished rapping about pizza, the book continued to maintain value with no (or not much) dip, and has been growing ever since as one of the iconic 80s books to have in an Copper collection Walking dead could very well be the book in "modern" (Or whatever we call this era in 20 years) that does the same thing.

That Slab's sold for $55 and $60 last two sales, no sales in last 90 days.

Agreed Sha', it's never a good idea for a seller (or buyer) to put the other party on ignore until things get resolved.... (now afterwards thats another matter I think $35 might be the cheapest mystery box offering I've ever seen, so with the cost so low, expectations should be been set accordingly. I dont think anyone would suggest a mystery box sale is the best way to get smoking 9.8 copies of modern books. And while there was one box that just had the CGC slab in it, the slab's value was not an outlier vs the estimated stated value of the other boxes (most recent sales of same slab were $60 and $55) so its not like take dreck for a chance to win a $200 slab. Its get a stack of comics worth $60 or a slab worth $60. Now the problem was the buyer didnt think the stack of comics was worth $60, but there seems to be some disagreement about 1st vs 2nd printings and variants included, and whether then Xfactor 5 was a 9.2 (as GoT supposedly first said to the seller) or an 8.0 as he posted here when complaining.... all of those factors influence whether the box is worth $60-70 as stated or less... I love mystery boxes for slabs and trades/hcs... speculative moderns that hold all their value based on Mint-ness and number of tics? not so much...

I read this through, and I'm not looking to reopen what looks like a closing wound, but I have to ask why did the seller not simply refund him his money in the first instance? That is the usual way to solve unhappy customers and avoid drama, yes? Refunds kind of go against the spirit of mystery boxes though don't u think? I get the desire to solve customer disappointment, but there's a little of that built in to mystery boxes right? Though the disappointment should be in the form of not getting exactly what you wanted (as opposed to not getting what was a stated value)...

GoT it should be pretty easy, post pics of the books that were 2nd print "junk" as opposed to the sellers assertion that they were first prints.

1. good on you for coming in and talking about this. 2. ignoring condition GoT had two boxes with (Im assuming even distribution) 13 books each. Your stated value was "$60-70 market value" which means essentially there should be 13 books that basically average $5 each. I only see one or two books that come in above $5, but Im not a big modern guy. How did you determine the $60-70 value of GoTs two mystery boxes? If you treated the books all just at modern list that would be 13x$3, so that's still only $39... which again means every book should be valued over retail. There were quite a few books in GoTs stack that were definately not valued over retail. Again, I dont think any comic is junk, or worthless, but I would like to see how you came to the $60-70 value you cited in your thread. and again see #1, good on you for coming in. [i wont get rid of my post, but I see two posts up that you are already answering this]

agreed... trades, HCs, and slabs are never worth "nothing"... raws... thats anoter matter.

yeesh... Might be worth PMing the other buyers to see how their boxes compare. Mystery boxes that are value dependent on high grade raws are a risky play... but it would be good to hear how the OP calculated his "$60-70 market value" that was cited.

were they worth the stated amount ($60-70)? How many books were in each box?

He hast completed payment (shipping), so if its been 30 days you should be able to void the sale due to nonpayment, and sell the book elsewhere. Keep trying to refund him, but there's only so much you can do...

Justin bought some of my books, paid fast, communicated well and was super buyer. sell this guy your stuff!

How are you defining flippers? Anyone willing to sell the book? Anyone who bought the book in hopes of it increasing in value for future sales? Considering the number of dealers on here I'm sure there are 50 "investment " copies in people's boxes... At the right price virtually anyone will sell almost any book.

"Seriously people this book is only going up in GPA" seriously, do we need such a hard sell? And seriously its not only going up (there are a few grades that is is going down), and going up in the last 90 days doens't mean its going to keep going up... and the sales are all in the run up to the ASM2 movie release, isnt it possible that buyers here know not to buy books at their high point (at the point of a movie release), but rather when they are under-performing, or due for a bump?

Agreed. Although NM 98 is a true first appearance, but alas, BA 12 is not. I do believe that will hinder that book in the long run. -J. Whether it's "first appearance in a comic" or "first appearance in the DC universe proper" the market has already spoken and they (as a collective) don't seem to care about splitting the hairs. The fact that Harley was first introduced in cartoon form is what helps cement BA12 as the go to Harley book (because the cartoon is consistent with the animated stylings of the Batman Adventure line). 90 day GPA average for a 9.8 BA12 = $666 Batman:Harley Quinn OGN = $251 Batman 570: $46 So when faced with choosing between 1st comic book appearance (BA12), 1st in continuity appearance (B:HQ OGN) or 1st appearance in an in continuity comic book (Batman 570), the overwhelming choice by the market is BA12 Its like the IH180/181 argument. Sure Wolverine first appears in IH180, but the market has shown that it cares MOST about IH181, so that's what matters. You could have made the exact same statment about IH180/181 back in the 80s (as in "The fact that IH181 is not Wolverines true first appearance will hinder the books in the long run") and that would not have held up. I think there's enough evidence on BA12s performance so far that we can say it's growth will only be affected by the level of popularity that Harley maintains in comic books and general pop culture. Respectfully, the hulk 180/181 analogy is not entirely applicable in that regardless of whether or not the hobby values his first "full appearance" more than a "cameo", is not the same as the first appearance of a cartoon character in a comic book. A better analogy would be transformers #1. The first appearance of the transformers in a comic book. Basically a very inexpensive book in a 9.8, even with all the toys and movies. I think when Harley became popular people wanted to find a book to go after that featured her early comic book appearance. BA 12 is obviously the best anyone could come up with. But regardless of what it is currently selling for, I give NM 98 the definite edge in importance because it actually is the first appearance of deadpool, and not just some cartoon character retconned for the first time into a comic book. -J. respectfully I only think Transformers #1 would work as a better analogy would be if Optimus Prime was later brought into the Marvel Universe and became a member of the Avengers, gained widespread marvel comics fandom and was the obsession of lots of cosplay/con/comic book fans (and yes I know there was a Transformers vs Avengers mini a few years back, but that wasnt in continuity). Harley was a DC Animated character that was included in that Animated shows DC comic book line, who was then brought into "proper" continuity by showing up in the mainstream Batman titles. She never existed outside of DC (unlike Transformers, which existed on their own, in their own universe, in their own continuity for decades), so it's not like they are trying to shoehorn in My Little Pony. Harley is a DC character who got popular in her original animated format so she moved into the main universe to continue to grow. DC has many animated titles right now (Teen Titans, Justice League) so I imagine something like this could happen again... I agree with everything you just said for the most part. But I still stand by my assertion that BA 12 is a weak example of a character's "first appearance". As much as I like harley we just have to accept that there is no real first appearance of her that will ever exist in a comic, and that's why it is not on par with a NM 9.8. -J. wouldn't you consider either Batman:Harley Quinn OGN or Batman 570 her first appearance in comics since you seem to be anti her animated version, and the OGN and 570 are not the animated version, and Batman 570 is a comic book for sure. wouldnt that be her first appearance by your thinking? (since BA12 isnt?) She's in continuity now so at SOME point she had to first appear... the market thinks that its BA12, or to a lesser degree the OGN... but somewhere it had to start. Do we have other examples of this? where the first appearance seems out of continuity? Maybe something from an OGN?

Agreed. Although NM 98 is a true first appearance, but alas, BA 12 is not. I do believe that will hinder that book in the long run. -J. Whether it's "first appearance in a comic" or "first appearance in the DC universe proper" the market has already spoken and they (as a collective) don't seem to care about splitting the hairs. The fact that Harley was first introduced in cartoon form is what helps cement BA12 as the go to Harley book (because the cartoon is consistent with the animated stylings of the Batman Adventure line). 90 day GPA average for a 9.8 BA12 = $666 Batman:Harley Quinn OGN = $251 Batman 570: $46 So when faced with choosing between 1st comic book appearance (BA12), 1st in continuity appearance (B:HQ OGN) or 1st appearance in an in continuity comic book (Batman 570), the overwhelming choice by the market is BA12 Its like the IH180/181 argument. Sure Wolverine first appears in IH180, but the market has shown that it cares MOST about IH181, so that's what matters. You could have made the exact same statment about IH180/181 back in the 80s (as in "The fact that IH181 is not Wolverines true first appearance will hinder the books in the long run") and that would not have held up. I think there's enough evidence on BA12s performance so far that we can say it's growth will only be affected by the level of popularity that Harley maintains in comic books and general pop culture. Respectfully, the hulk 180/181 analogy is not entirely applicable in that regardless of whether or not the hobby values his first "full appearance" more than a "cameo", is not the same as the first appearance of a cartoon character in a comic book. A better analogy would be transformers #1. The first appearance of the transformers in a comic book. Basically a very inexpensive book in a 9.8, even with all the toys and movies. I think when Harley became popular people wanted to find a book to go after that featured her early comic book appearance. BA 12 is obviously the best anyone could come up with. But regardless of what it is currently selling for, I give NM 98 the definite edge in importance because it actually is the first appearance of deadpool, and not just some cartoon character retconned for the first time into a comic book. -J. respectfully I only think Transformers #1 would work as a better analogy would be if Optimus Prime was later brought into the Marvel Universe and became a member of the Avengers, gained widespread marvel comics fandom and was the obsession of lots of cosplay/con/comic book fans (and yes I know there was a Transformers vs Avengers mini a few years back, but that wasnt in continuity). Harley was a DC Animated character that was included in that Animated shows DC comic book line, who was then brought into "proper" continuity by showing up in the mainstream Batman titles. She never existed outside of DC (unlike Transformers, which existed on their own, in their own universe, in their own continuity for decades), so it's not like they are trying to shoehorn in My Little Pony. Harley is a DC character who got popular in her original animated format so she moved into the main universe to continue to grow. DC has many animated titles right now (Teen Titans, Justice League) so I imagine something like this could happen again...

Agreed. Although NM 98 is a true first appearance, but alas, BA 12 is not. I do believe that will hinder that book in the long run. -J. Whether it's "first appearance in a comic" or "first appearance in the DC universe proper" the market has already spoken and they (as a collective) don't seem to care about splitting the hairs. The fact that Harley was first introduced in cartoon form is what helps cement BA12 as the go to Harley book (because the cartoon is consistent with the animated stylings of the Batman Adventure line). 90 day GPA average for a 9.8 BA12 = $666 Batman:Harley Quinn OGN = $251 Batman 570: $46 So when faced with choosing between 1st comic book appearance (BA12), 1st in continuity appearance (B:HQ OGN) or 1st appearance in an in continuity comic book (Batman 570), the overwhelming choice by the market is BA12 Its like the IH180/181 argument. Sure Wolverine first appears in IH180, but the market has shown that it cares MOST about IH181, so that's what matters. You could have made the exact same statment about IH180/181 back in the 80s (as in "The fact that IH181 is not Wolverines true first appearance will hinder the books in the long run") and that would not have held up. I think there's enough evidence on BA12s performance so far that we can say it's growth will only be affected by the level of popularity that Harley maintains in comic books and general pop culture.

are they 9.6 not 9.8?

looks like about half of his thread has gotten un-kudoed... wonder if he'll be linking to his kudos thread anymore...

we're about 2 weeks away from someone having a sale titled "CGC It!" or "9.6 not a 9.8"

As opposed to when? The 80's X-men run by Claremont and Daredevil run by Miller is up there - I don't recall seeing 5 variant covers, embossed, poly bagged issues during that time. There has never been a time in the history of the company when a good product was more important than a punctual product. At least not in continuity. Quality of writing trumps style back in the day. Readers were more into substance. As I've said earlier, "they were in MORE for the money" during the 90's. Marvel tried making money by pandering to insufficiently_thoughtful_persons. Every company's goal is to keep shareholders happy. Everybody knows this. They were making money without the cheesy gimmicks - they just got greedier in the 90's because the market allowed it (speculators). I could be wrong, but wasn't it DC who started the 90's debacle. With 5 different covers for Robin 1, that was followed by Marvel and bagging X-Force 1 with 5 different cards, then X-Men 1 had 5 covers, then foil covers, then Bloodshot 1 had Chromium and Marvel went nuts with Chromium, and so on and so forth, and somehow we ended up with X-Statix, and Doop. Wow, I just had a horrible flashback. Doop is amusing agreed, and X-statix is an interesting read as a criticism of current pop culture both inside and outside of comics...

As opposed to when? The 80's X-men run by Claremont and Daredevil run by Miller is up there - I don't recall seeing 5 variant covers, embossed, poly bagged issues during that time. Not really a fair argument, since those things weren't around during the Claremont/Miller era you referenced. It is fair to say that there's not much "great" reading in and among those holo foil, poly bagged books... Some loved Valiant in that era and they had some of that stuff. Robinson's Starman was able to avoid the mess ... But the 90s were style over substance, and art over writing.

Thank goodness!

I dont think any of those mentioned titles will catch up to NM98 ...two of them are bronze age (so fewer 9.8 grade copies, and maybe fewer all together) ....walking dead had a smaller print run for sure, and most have been slabbed due to popularity and press. ...BA12 probably had less produced/kept, even though they were produced in the same era, the BA line was less "mainstream" than NM. Also NM copies are still sitting in plenty of 90s long boxes, sure some BA12s are too, but the NMs far outnumber the BAs.

with the popularity of the book, and the price potential, and the press that the 10.0 got last year I would assume that of those 1400 9.8s a decent percentage (more than the average book) are duplicates due to the sub, resub, press, resub, press with someone else, re-re-resub game. decent percentage in my guestimation.... 15%