WernerVonDoom

Here is my full spoiler review Warning, Spoiler: The movie opens in a classroom and the purpose of the scene is to show how smart Reed is as a child and that Ben was in his class. The classroom is dingy, the kids and the teacher make fun of Reed for his crazy ideas. 15 seconds in, and I knew I wasn't watching a FF movie. The FF always celebrates science and intelligence. If this was in a real FF movie, the room would be bright, the teacher would be an arrogant sub who calls on Reed, and all the other kids are smiling because they know Reed is going to put him in his place (not in a vengeful way, but in a here are the "real facts" way). The initial intro to Ben is fine, he doesn't say anything, but is intrigued by Reed. Unfortunately it cuts now to Ben's home life, and his abusive brother smacks him HARD across the head and says, "It's Clobbering Time!". The Thing's fun catchphrase has now been linked to child abuse. Having young actors is tough, and they seemed to do a fine job except when given lines a child would never say like Reed's first words to Ben, "Don't kill me!" Being super-smart I guess makes you jump to the worst-case scenario, or in this bleak Ultimate FF world, people get routinely murdered for petty theft. Then a little later, Reed teleports a toy car. Instead of a normal kid's reaction, "Wow, that's cool!!!!", we get a quiet, "Reed you are insane". No one is allowed to have any fun in this movie. The film jumps 7 years to a high school science fair. It must be a small school that goes from K-12th grade, because Reed's 5th grade teacher is there judging the contest (not to mention there are actual 5th graders that Reed is competing against). The experiment works, but for some inexplicable reason it shatters a basketball backboard. No one seems to be concerned that if the wave had been aimed lower, it would have killed a bunch of kids. Franklin Richards and Sue suddenly appear at the science show with no explanation why they are there, I guess they are scouting talent at this odd K-12 school in the poorer part of town. Or maybe they saw the list of upcoming school science projects that every school announces in advance. Anyway, they basically say, "wow, your experiment is exactly what we are working on, what a coincidence, we would like to give you a full scholarship." in about 30 seconds of screen time. Fast forward again to the Baxter Foundation, and Reeds talks to Sue in the library. They discuss the music Sue is listening to and she blurts out "Pattern Recognition", like a slightly functioning autistic savant. That's how the character is played throughout the entire movie. You couldn't be farther from Sue Storm if you tried. Dr. Doom is introduced as a moping emo recluse who only agrees to return to the project because Sue will be there. Dr. Doom is in love with Sue in this mess. In the real FF, Dr. Doom's motivations are 1) finding a way to save his damned mother; 2) making Latveria prosper (in his twisted way); 3) increasing his power so he can control the world; 4) proving that he smarter than Reed. In this movie, there is no mention of his mother, you never see Latveria, he wants to destroy the world and move on, and he dislikes Reed, not because of his intelligence, but because he is jealous of Sue. WTF. Victor whines about the government destroying the planet. Sue says, "Look at Dr. Doom here". That line was probably filmed before the studio changed Victor Van Damme back to Victor Von Doom. Johnny Storm is introduced in street race. He says two lines, "You promise me we'll still be cool after I dust your ." and "bye bye" then crashes his car. A quick cut to Johnny and his Dad coming out of the hospital and Johnny has a broken arm. Franklin yells at him and says he has the I.Q. to reach his full potential. So basically Reed, Sue, and Johnny are geniuses. Johnny must have a mutant healing factor because his broken arm is never mentioned again. They build the transporter and the government stooges come in. The test works and the officials tell the group that it will go to NASA now to coordinate going to another planet. Totally reasonable next step. Victor gets mad and gives the official his middle finger. Let me repeat that, the dignified royal Dr. Doom gives the bird. So painful. Reed, Victor and Johnny get drunk, they decided to go to the planet on their own (leaving out Sue?) Reed calls Ben and tells him to come on down to the lab so he can go to another planet also. Ben not being drunk, of course agrees. They make it to Planet Zero (Not the Negative Zone - it has no creatures, just rocks and green energy goo). They decide to climb down a mountain to investigate. Johnny being the daredevil, gets scared and stays behind. Doom touches the goo, which starts a chain reaction of exploding goo. Victor doesn't make it and falls back into the goo. Sue brings the other 3 back. Sue apparently gets zapped by goo somehow, but it isn't shown on screen, which is really odd. A cut and the 4 are locked up in government facility. They show the "horror" of their powers. Reed hears Ben calling out to him and makes his way to Ben's cell. Ben asks for Reeds help, but Reed takes off and leaves him there when the alarm sounds. The real Reed would then use his mind to get his friends out ASAP. I kept expecting that to be the case. Turns out he just runs and hides for a year and is depressed. Ben gets pissed and makes a deal with the government, to be a soldier for them in exchange for a cure. A year passes in a cut, and Ben has been busy killing people for the military. On the last mission alone, he killed 43 people. Yes, the Ever-Lovin' Blue-Eyed Thing, is a mass-murderer. The Thing, who goes to the park and juggles laughing kids - yes that Thing. Sue betrays Reed and locates him for the government. Her motive is that Reed needs to send people back to Planet Zero so the four can be cured. Of course, there is no explanation on what would be accomplished by going back there, except for giving the government access to make more super-soldiers. Reed fixes the machine and they send a second team to the planet who finds Victor and brings him back. Victor's skin has turned to metal, which worked so well in the Tim Story movies, they decided to do it again. Victor then "Scanners" kills the base soldiers and Franklin Richards. Doom just wants to get back to Planet Zero so he can create a world of 1. If so, why the hell did he come back to Earth when he was already there?!?! Cheesy quick battle ensues, Ben throws one punch, Doom is disintegrated. The government gives them a billion dollar facility and they name themselves the Fantastic Four. Zero Stars

Just got through watching it. What a piece of garbage from beginning to end. I'll write a full review tomorrow if I can stop retching.

I just had a crazy thought: Josh Trank did say he had a comic collection. What if he is a huge FF fan and decided to make the worst adaptation possible to force Fox to sell the rights back to Marvel? What a sad, tragic, and heroic tale that would be. He knew he was going to take massive heat but decided to suffer in silence for the good of us all. Now that is a story that needs to be turned into a movie.

How about they pull their heads out of their asses and do a proper Fantastic Four movie first. And why would you have to use the horrible Ultimate FF as the base? There's no problem with the Marvel Zombie universe being alternate to the main storyline.

Indeed, sticking to the source material, the original costumes, etc. is a key lesson learned. But this movie failed epically for reasons well beyond deviation from the iconic Lee/Kirby mythology. There is a story behind the movie that at some point will be told in clear detail. Based on the rumours about Trank over the last 12 months, the reshooting that took place in the Spring, and what -- based on what many of the critics have been pointing out -- appears to have been a completely redone/reworked final 25% of the film -- which perhaps suggests that Fox Studios didn't like the original director's cut that maybe lacked sufficient action (?) -- this was a production and -script train wreck that Fox Studios and the film's producers are as much responsible for as anyone. I'm not defending Mr. Trank, but I'm sure if he could speak freely about WTF happened, we would hear an interesting side of the story. you seriously think if the costumes were more similar to the originals that would have had ANY impact on the reviews or the box office? How many people 18-49 in America do you think have read Fantastic Four 1-5. 10K? What percent of movie critics do you think have read Fantastic Four 1-5? A marginally higher percentage than the general population? I know I haven't, and I like comics. A LOT. The movie didn't fail because the ideas because the ideas weren't true to the original, it failed because the ideas were bad. How similar was Cap 2 to anything we've read? Or Spider-Man 1, or the good X-men movies? You take the ideas and assemble and add things in a way that makes things fun and relevant and entertaining, hopefully. That doesn't mean there isn't a good TRUE movie out there to be told, just that I wouldn't count on the lesson learned from this to be 'stay true to the source material'. Obviously nothing is a direct link to comic, but are you telling me you can't see the difference between Captain America in the Marvel movies and Dr. Doom in the Fox movies? Seriously? Sure, the majority of the audience of the movies doesn't read comics, but if you burn down the characters look and personalities, a not-so insignificant chunk of comic movie-goers will hate the idea and possibly not attend. Not going to happen again after this debacle.

No, that's not it. The first effort was low-budget and pre-CGI; you get what you pay. The second effort was lazy (rubber Thing suit; Galactus-as-a-cloud) and miscast (bubble-bleach-blond playing Sue Storm; hyper Reed Richards; metrosexual version of Victor Von Doom with trimmed eyebrows). This third effort, based on the 8 or so reviews that I have read on RT, point to two problems: a bland -script and a director who was in over his head. (Fox thought Trank was the next Steven Spielberg, gambled and lost.) If GOTG can be one of the greatest super-hero films ever made, FF -- done correctly -- can be an outstanding franchise. At this point there is no doubt Fox will pull the plug on any sequel plans involving the current iteration. The real question is whether Fox will throw in the towel and work out some deal with Marvel Studios. I sort of disagree. I think the FF have aged really poorly. In the 60s, they were groundbreaking. They were the glue that held the universe together. Into the Byrne era, that was still partly true. Since then, we've seen a book that has never maintained sales and their role in the universe has dwindled to the point that their own book was cancelled. The elements that made the FF so great in the 60s were applied to everything. Now they just aren't unique and storylines and characters in The Avengers can serve the main purpose. I honestly think the FF just don't reach the same level of interest and haven't in a long time. Personally, the thing to do in my mind is make them part of the larger universe. Use Reed as the scientist and expert going into the Infinity Gauntlet. Bring Skrulls and Galactus into the Avengers universe. I'd also play up Sue Storm. Marvel has been criticized for being sexist- Sue is the perfect catalyst to that idea. That is all dependent on Marvel getting the rights back or Fox making a Spidey like deal with Marvel. I can't disagree with you more. If way back, Marvel had sold the rights to Avengers instead of FF, Fox and Tim Story would have made horrible Avengers movies and Marvel would have made epic FF movies. Real Galactus, real Dr. Doom, Inhumans, and on and on. Trank would have cast teenagers in a reboot for the final Avengers bomb movie and your paragraph above would be saying the exact opposite. I think you're right if the situation had been flipped, but I still think the FF have been a declining property since Byrne left. When was the last time the book was in the top 25 outside of a number 1? Maybe the Millar/Hitch run that lasted a dozen issues. Even during Hickman's run I don't think the book sold all that well. Marvel has been dominated by X-Men and Avengers since the early 90s with spurts of successful Spidey runs here and there. FF have been intricate part of events, but outside of that, they don't really dominate the universe or sales. X-Men yes. Spidey yes. Avengers - their enhanced recent popularity stems directly from the success of the films. If the films were reversed, the popularity of the books would likely be reversed as well. The quality of recent FF runs is very high.

No, that's not it. The first effort was low-budget and pre-CGI; you get what you pay. The second effort was lazy (rubber Thing suit; Galactus-as-a-cloud) and miscast (bubble-bleach-blond playing Sue Storm; hyper Reed Richards; metrosexual version of Victor Von Doom with trimmed eyebrows). This third effort, based on the 8 or so reviews that I have read on RT, point to two problems: a bland -script and a director who was in over his head. (Fox thought Trank was the next Steven Spielberg, gambled and lost.) If GOTG can be one of the greatest super-hero films ever made, FF -- done correctly -- can be an outstanding franchise. At this point there is no doubt Fox will pull the plug on any sequel plans involving the current iteration. The real question is whether Fox will throw in the towel and work out some deal with Marvel Studios. I sort of disagree. I think the FF have aged really poorly. In the 60s, they were groundbreaking. They were the glue that held the universe together. Into the Byrne era, that was still partly true. Since then, we've seen a book that has never maintained sales and their role in the universe has dwindled to the point that their own book was cancelled. The elements that made the FF so great in the 60s were applied to everything. Now they just aren't unique and storylines and characters in The Avengers can serve the main purpose. I honestly think the FF just don't reach the same level of interest and haven't in a long time. Personally, the thing to do in my mind is make them part of the larger universe. Use Reed as the scientist and expert going into the Infinity Gauntlet. Bring Skrulls and Galactus into the Avengers universe. I'd also play up Sue Storm. Marvel has been criticized for being sexist- Sue is the perfect catalyst to that idea. That is all dependent on Marvel getting the rights back or Fox making a Spidey like deal with Marvel. I can't disagree with you more. If way back, Marvel had sold the rights to Avengers instead of FF, Fox and Tim Story would have made horrible Avengers movies and Marvel would have made epic FF movies. Real Galactus, real Dr. Doom, Inhumans, and on and on. Trank would have cast teenagers in a reboot for the final Avengers bomb movie and your paragraph above would be saying the exact opposite.

Nice!

Nope it's not because it is Fox. It's because of the choices made by Fox and the director. I'd actually prefer it if Fox could get it right (or even better - cooperate with Marvel) then it going back fully to Marvel, since there would be more comic movies to watch. The reason that people have so much hate is simple, they perverted something cherished. I think even for the average comic fan (non-die hard FF), the original storyline/characters are something sacred, mainly because of Lee/Kirby and the fact that it was first. You can change it up a little bit to have it make sense on the screen, but they went way too far.

So you are saying if it completely tanks in the U.S., it can still make $400M worldwide. I guess that means whoever has never heard of the FF will go see it. I'll skip why you seem to think that is a good thing, but you mean to tell me that a handful of "FF nerds" can completely take down the domestic box office? There are millions of casual comic/pop culture fans out there that know a little bit about the FF - they go to comic cons, watch the movies/cartoons, talk to hard core collectors, and maybe even read the books. And I would guess that most of them have heard a little something about how this movie is not true to the original. I guess we'll see what they have to say this week.

Chronicle was good. I seen it twice. Put it in the Kick- 1 movie category. Back to Josh Trank now. It`s a huge red flag when the Star Wars guys parted with him. A huge Red Flag. Who would turn down Star Wars after being hired for it? Maybe Trank tried to change Star Wars like he did FF,but the Star Wars guys told him to take a hike? The real reason was that Trank was pushing for Michael B. Jordan to play a young Han Solo.

The first Fantastic Four movie was a financial success, making over three times budget which is why a sequel was approved. And even with any 'low result' Fox movie, they did better than The Incredible Hulk's 1.8X results. Origins did just as well as Captain America: The First Avenger, and that movie was a missed opportunity throughout. Fox have a $3.1 billion franchise that only cost it $1 billion to create is most probably why they won't let go of the X-Universe Franchise. I don't understand, you're saying this is all about money? That people make these movies to make money and not to cater to old fanboys preferred interpretations which retell stories from the 1960's? And that they keep doing it in order to make money, even though in some/many cases they're not putting out the best possible product? But what about the 300 white dudes who are 60 years old who have been collecting Fantastic Four since the beginning? What if they don't come to see the movie?? I have no idea if the movie will be good, the trailers honestly haven't appealed to me that much. BUT I do think that Michael B Jordan takes his roles seriously, and probably wouldn't be in it just to be in it if he didn't like the -script. Sounds like a fantastic movie executive. Exec: "Profits go up .003% if Bruce Wayne is a delivery boy instead of a rich billionaire. Let's do it!" Batman Fans: "That's ridiculous!" Exec: "Stop complaining. You think we make movies for you, we make them for profit!".

So then you have read Ultimate Fantastic Four? The cast didn't have to read it, so neither should I. Ultimate FF is the source material... You can't say it's disrespectful of the source material if you haven't read it. The overall source, is of course, the original Fantastic Four. The Ultimate FF wouldn't exist without the Original. The Ultimate FF is based on the original FF. It is a perverted version of the FF. Trank made a perverted version of a perverted version. Which makes him a insufficiently_thoughtful_person. If somebody reads two chapters from some dingleberries interpretation of Lord of the Rings, and That's ALL, then decides to make a movie about it, tells the cast not to bother reading any of it, including the original source material, adds a bunch of characters not originally in it and the director's OWN interpretation of what little he had read - people would go ASB. The 'B' stands for Ballistic. There'd be a mutiny. Because literature is respected. Comics aren't. At least not by Trank. And you could argue 'but it wasn't from the SOURCE material', but the way I see it: If Bilbo Baggins is in a story, I know what it should be based upon. I feel the same way about Reed Richards. First, it will have to work really hard to be worse than FF 2. Second, what's wrong with using Ultimate FF as source material? The books were really good, and arguably the best thing to happen to FF since the Byrne run 20 years earlier. Besides, we've already gotten Ultimate Nick Fury in the movies and that's worked out fine. As others have said, I'll withhold judgment until seeing the actual movie, which looks like a fun popcorn flick -- and far better than the latest Terminator or Mission Impossible sequels. Comparing Ultimate FF to Byrne FF is like comparing the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special to Empire Strikes Back.

Here's another great quote from Trank: "I'm a really big fan of Bryan Hitch and everything he has done. A big thing that inspired me from his work in the Ultimates was seeing Reed in a garage. I absolutely wanted to tell the story of a young Reed Richards." A. Ultimates was a comic about the Avengers, not Fantastic Four. B. Bryan Hitch never drew Reed in a garage. It was Adam Kubert.

I think most everyone is aware of that... maybe not, maybe there are some who aren't. I always considered the 'Ultimate' titles to be flash in the pan, speculation concepts, put together by Marvel because they were too afraid to do anything to 'risky' with their 'properties'; and only did a short term amount of business because the people they were aimed at were primarily the ones too lazy to read the original material and understand and respect it in the context it was created. It would comparable to someone, thinking Alfred Hitchcock's version of 'Psycho' was 'outdated' and instead wanted to create a new story for comics based upon the Gus Van Sant version. They'd be laughed at. They'd be laughed at. They wouldn't be taken seriously. Comics, even ground breaking, industry changing CLASSICS, still don't get the respect they deserve from the rest of the world. And I don't like it. I look at what Jack and Stan did with that original run as respect-worthy in a Hitchcock way or a Beatles worthy way, at the very least within the field it was created in, and so, to ME anyway... when I look at how this KID Josh Trank has approached it, by ignoring it for this LAME knock-off version, and the CLEAR DISRESPECT he has for the original material.... I will NEVER in any WAY, SHAPE, or FORM EVER SUPPORT it. I agree the FF movie will probably bomb which is good for Marvel to get the FF back, but sorry man sometimes you really come off that if the stories are not like your childhood then you completely shut down. You do realize that most of the SA comics are impossible to read anymore without being bored right? Ultimate FF ran from 2004-2009. Stan and Jack's FF has run from 1961 to 2015. Pick up any FF from the past 5 years and it obviously looks nothing like SA FF - it's been 'modernized' for lack of a better term. But the comic still has the same bedrock that Stan and Jack built (personalities/structure/style). I don't know about anyone else, but that's why I won't see this movie, it's just not the Fantastic Four. I disagree. Reed from Civil War didn't have any of the personality of Reed from the 1960s - 1980s. Like Tony Stark, they updated his personality and lost the original character along the way. About slutty Sue, I'm guessing that has more to do with comics that feature her with Namor, Dr. Doom, and Black Panther. Did she cheat on Reed during Civil War? Yep, I agree with you. When I read Civil War I remember throwing the book across the room in disgust. Luckily, the writers since then have been ignoring that (as much as they can). The two lowest points in FF history are Civil War and Ultimate FF. And what do they have in common? They changed the core characters. Looks like this movie joins the list. I don't know where Trank's slutty Sue comment came from. Since he knows nothing about the comics, he probably just made it up. I've been thinking about it, and you know where Sue was dressed up and acting somewhat like a slutty secretary? In the first two movies. She would wear those glasses, and proper clothes, but have that hot pink lipstick on, and her shirt open one button to many. He's basing it off the movies, and has probably never even read the comics Yep that's it! Good call.

I think most everyone is aware of that... maybe not, maybe there are some who aren't. I always considered the 'Ultimate' titles to be flash in the pan, speculation concepts, put together by Marvel because they were too afraid to do anything to 'risky' with their 'properties'; and only did a short term amount of business because the people they were aimed at were primarily the ones too lazy to read the original material and understand and respect it in the context it was created. It would comparable to someone, thinking Alfred Hitchcock's version of 'Psycho' was 'outdated' and instead wanted to create a new story for comics based upon the Gus Van Sant version. They'd be laughed at. They'd be laughed at. They wouldn't be taken seriously. Comics, even ground breaking, industry changing CLASSICS, still don't get the respect they deserve from the rest of the world. And I don't like it. I look at what Jack and Stan did with that original run as respect-worthy in a Hitchcock way or a Beatles worthy way, at the very least within the field it was created in, and so, to ME anyway... when I look at how this KID Josh Trank has approached it, by ignoring it for this LAME knock-off version, and the CLEAR DISRESPECT he has for the original material.... I will NEVER in any WAY, SHAPE, or FORM EVER SUPPORT it. I agree the FF movie will probably bomb which is good for Marvel to get the FF back, but sorry man sometimes you really come off that if the stories are not like your childhood then you completely shut down. You do realize that most of the SA comics are impossible to read anymore without being bored right? Ultimate FF ran from 2004-2009. Stan and Jack's FF has run from 1961 to 2015. Pick up any FF from the past 5 years and it obviously looks nothing like SA FF - it's been 'modernized' for lack of a better term. But the comic still has the same bedrock that Stan and Jack built (personalities/structure/style). I don't know about anyone else, but that's why I won't see this movie, it's just not the Fantastic Four. I disagree. Reed from Civil War didn't have any of the personality of Reed from the 1960s - 1980s. Like Tony Stark, they updated his personality and lost the original character along the way. About slutty Sue, I'm guessing that has more to do with comics that feature her with Namor, Dr. Doom, and Black Panther. Did she cheat on Reed during Civil War? Yep, I agree with you. When I read Civil War I remember throwing the book across the room in disgust. Luckily, the writers since then have been ignoring that (as much as they can). The two lowest points in FF history are Civil War and Ultimate FF. And what do they have in common? They changed the core characters. Looks like this movie joins the list. I don't know where Trank's slutty Sue comment came from. Since he knows nothing about the comics, he probably just made it up.

I think most everyone is aware of that... maybe not, maybe there are some who aren't. I always considered the 'Ultimate' titles to be flash in the pan, speculation concepts, put together by Marvel because they were too afraid to do anything to 'risky' with their 'properties'; and only did a short term amount of business because the people they were aimed at were primarily the ones too lazy to read the original material and understand and respect it in the context it was created. It would comparable to someone, thinking Alfred Hitchcock's version of 'Psycho' was 'outdated' and instead wanted to create a new story for comics based upon the Gus Van Sant version. They'd be laughed at. They'd be laughed at. They wouldn't be taken seriously. Comics, even ground breaking, industry changing CLASSICS, still don't get the respect they deserve from the rest of the world. And I don't like it. I look at what Jack and Stan did with that original run as respect-worthy in a Hitchcock way or a Beatles worthy way, at the very least within the field it was created in, and so, to ME anyway... when I look at how this KID Josh Trank has approached it, by ignoring it for this LAME knock-off version, and the CLEAR DISRESPECT he has for the original material.... I will NEVER in any WAY, SHAPE, or FORM EVER SUPPORT it. I agree the FF movie will probably bomb which is good for Marvel to get the FF back, but sorry man sometimes you really come off that if the stories are not like your childhood then you completely shut down. You do realize that most of the SA comics are impossible to read anymore without being bored right? Ultimate FF ran from 2004-2009. Stan and Jack's FF has run from 1961 to 2015. Pick up any FF from the past 5 years and it obviously looks nothing like SA FF - it's been 'modernized' for lack of a better term. But the comic still has the same bedrock that Stan and Jack built (personalities/structure/style). I don't know about anyone else, but that's why I won't see this movie, it's just not the Fantastic Four.

I'm so glad I got Arch to add this emoticon a few years back. But I can understand the passion and sentiment. You liked things just the way they were from the beginning because it felt right. Meanwhile, there are going to be others that appreciate change more. That doesn't make them less of a fan because they can appreciate change over time, including modern social themes factored into the story. I gotta ask, why is Ultimate FF a modern retelling of the story? Because Josh Trank says it is? As far as I can tell that heaping pile of garbage was cancelled in 2009. The main universe FF was still being printed in 2015 - and the recent writing has been excellent (and very modern).

I think most everyone is aware of that... maybe not, maybe there are some who aren't. I always considered the 'Ultimate' titles to be flash in the pan, speculation concepts, put together by Marvel because they were too afraid to do anything to 'risky' with their 'properties'; and only did a short term amount of business because the people they were aimed at were primarily the ones too lazy to read the original material and understand and respect it in the context it was created. It would comparable to someone, thinking Alfred Hitchcock's version of 'Psycho' was 'outdated' and instead wanted to create a new story for comics based upon the Gus Van Sant version. They'd be laughed at. They'd be laughed at. They wouldn't be taken seriously. Comics, even ground breaking, industry changing CLASSICS, still don't get the respect they deserve from the rest of the world. And I don't like it. I look at what Jack and Stan did with that original run as respect-worthy in a Hitchcock way or a Beatles worthy way, at the very least within the field it was created in, and so, to ME anyway... when I look at how this KID Josh Trank has approached it, by ignoring it for this LAME knock-off version, and the CLEAR DISRESPECT he has for the original material.... I will NEVER in any WAY, SHAPE, or FORM EVER SUPPORT it. That could not have been more perfectly said. Thanks.

I'd say 645 issues or so.

So Sue Storm's extra ability is that she's "hyper-intelligent"?!? You've got to be kidding me. Here's a quote from Josh Trank: "There have always been two categories of Sue – the slutty secretary version, and this brilliant scientist version. This is a really, really smart Sue, and one that is dignified and has integrity." Always? Except for one brief moment, when Sue was corrupted (Malice), she has never been "slutty". And, while she is dedicated, loyal, protective, and powerful (as well as being dignified and having integrity), she has never been a "brilliant scientist" or "hyper-intelligent" (Except in the horrible useless fake Ultimate FF).

*ahem* John. Freakin'. Byrne. I put Byrne's run just under Lee/Kirby's FF and Lee/Ditko/Romita's ASM run for all-time greatness. More than Miller's DD, Simonson's Thor, Mignola's Hellboy, McFarlane's ASM or whatever else you want to throw at me. Byrne FF is simply awesome. I love the Byrne run as well, that is why I said they have not been relevant since the 80's. Nope... Lee/Kirby run, then up and down until Byrne, a deep dip, then some highlights (Simonson), A mixed bag with Heroes Reborn, then pre-Civil War was good but not great, Civil War sucked, then everything after that has been extremely high quality.

People are picking those apart, but those facts seem to not be dwelled on for too long, and I think it's because there's enough other stuff going on for those movies to defend such changes. And both changes were made for very specific reasons. 1) Hank Pym wasn't introduced because Marvel Studios had no reason to believe Ant-Man would do well for movie audiences until after seeing the combination of Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America (at a minimum) do well. BUT, Hank Pym is undeniably important in the formation of the Avengers, so they are forced to retroactively include him in the backstory (and us common folk will find out exactly how in the next two days!) 2) See above; Hank Pym isn't a major player yet, but Ultron needs to be, so it's natural to turn to the next top scientific minds as creators: Banner and Stark. PLUS, Stark's motivations developed since Iron Man 1 make logical sense when considering the leadup to Ultron's creation. Those are minor compared to how the Avengers were formed in the first place. SHIELD didn't form the Avengers via some initiative, the Avengers got together without SHIELD's involvement. Tony Stark footed the bill for the Avengers. Jarvis was Tony Stark's butler, not a computer. The Avengers found Captain America's frozen body, not SHIELD. My biggest problem with the MCU has to do with SHIELD being the driver behind all of it. Apparently, the Marvel cinematic superheroes wouldn't be able to function without handlers. And Marvel has gone to great lengths to align the current comics with the movies. We have people complaining about using UFF as the source for the FF movie, look what Marvel did to the Avengers. Read the first 200+ issues of Avengers and show me how what we are seeing in the movies has anything to do with the comics. Everyone has different tolerances what they'll put up with in a movie, but I think what has many people upset with Trank's FF is that the core personalities/concepts of the characters are changed. In Avengers, Thor is still Thor, Hulk is Hulk, etc. Most people can put up with background detail changes to make the movie better or make more sense. I'd have preferred to have seen Banner get hit with a gamma bomb saving Rick Jones, but zapping him in a lab is ok, as long as he turns into the Hulk we all know. The FF is not the FF in any way shape or form - they went the Ultimate route and it was a big mistake.

Also, I think there's something to be said regarding taking just elements of the source material, for exampled tone (from Ultimate FF), and not necessarily facts and exact storylines. I think that's where this movie will nail it. I read literally just the Marvel Zombies issue of UFF and LOVED it, and not just for the zombies parts. I guess what it comes down to for me, is that I have absolutely no desire to see an "alternate reality" b.s. ultimate version of the FF (baby team members, non-lovable Thing with no junk, black Human Torch, weird metal Geek Squad Dr. Doom, Thing's soprano voice). There are 645 issues of main run FF. What, they can't find any good storylines from those 645 issues? I want to see a good FF movie before I'm dead - the only way that is going to happen is if no one pays money to see this movie. Please don't.