vaillant

Those covers are fun, vaillant. Thanks for posting the links. Do these books have puzzles, text stories etc. like the US do? Did the contents evolve over time to become more focused on comics, like Mickey Mouse Magazine turned into Walt Disney's Comics and Stories?

Yes, some of them have games, especially "Nel Regno di Topolino", they also had contexts to obtain four-color trading cards, and games and coupons are often cut-out. The majority of pages is comics, anyway.

The US market is so focused on CGC grades today, and one downside of assembling a super high grade complete run is that one purple label or "incomplete"/"brittle pages" 0.5 sticks out like a sore thumb if you have beautiful blue label copies of the other 59 issues. So, I felt like I had to buy every nice copy that came up for sale. To me, the substance of collecting high grade will always be the thrill that I feel when I look at a beautiful book, regardless of the CGC score.

I simply mean’t such grades with the italian Disney books of the 1930s-1940s just don’t exist. It’s because of the paper used. Inside pages may be similar to US comic books, but the covers are in some half-cardboard uncoated paper, which was raw, porous, and thus it tended to get worn already off the press.

In fact, I‘d like to submit some of them in the "spare a grade" section to see how they are valued by users used to the mostly coated US paper.

Damn. Here I was hoping that Il Duce had some sort of censorious finger in the pie, so to speak.

Il Duce loved Disney shorts, he used to hum the "Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf" tune – anecdote reported by his son Romano in an interview. His older son Vittorio was a movie enthousiast and used to think "this war will finish, so we’ll be able to watch and discuss films and listen to the music we love" (Romano became an appreciated jazz pianist, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano_Mussolini)

I have to add, that your written English is very, very good and embarrasses me no end when I compare and contrast my own poor "other language" skills.

Thank you, but in fact I constantly fall short of terms. My vocabulary is "patchy" and I have often to figure out how to translate certain words. Plus, english is maybe amongst the easiest languages to learn. I’d be a lot harder to learn italian or french for an englishperson.

Are there completist collectors in Italy who have runs of all these books? Sounds like it would be a hard task to take on and accomplish. TB, perhaps your next goal?

Well, some collectors prefer the original "giornali" runs, some others prefer to collect the "album"/comic book titles. It must be said that both contain the original US stories, translated, and then later on the original italian production, but the "albi" (comic books) are desirable to collectors, often in a higher degree.

I started collecting these 1930s issues when I was 16, in the mid-1980s, but then stopped as I often collect various things.

Have a look here: http://vintagecomics.forumcommunity.net/?t=41727414

Problem with these runs is the fact the later issues of both titles I have shown are virtually impossible to find outside complete collections, since late issues had probably a lower print run, they were published close to the war, and they were costly compared to giornali (a price of "2 lire" means an "Albo d’Oro" was priced at 4x the price of a "Nel Regno di Topolino", so parents were less likely to buy those to kids).

Ah, with these you must forget, once for all, things like 9.2, 9.4, 9.6 etc…

While I don't really want to set a precedent, I agree with Duffman. Those 1930s Italian books are great. Thanks vaillant.

I did not mean to stray from the original post intent, but as I’ve seen there was more than Donald Duck here, I guessed the italian school, for the woldwide importance by which it’s regarded, ranked side-by-side with the US classics.

Scarpa and G.B. Carpi, two of the leading authors, picked up the magnificent long-story tradition of the Goddfredson syndicated classics and of Barks' ducks family development in comic books, and brought it to additional heights.

Suffice to say Scarpa created various new characters, one of which has found the spotlight in US publications (Brigitta, a troublesome occasional wannabe-fiancée of Uncle Scrooge, after Glittering Goldie).

So, to get back on the Duck track, an historically important issue, which features "Donald Duck and the mystery of Mars", the very first – still rather crude and very much mimicking Al Taliaferro – original italian story:

The original edition has been published starting December 30, 1937, on the pages of "Paperino Giornale", but this is the first comic book edition. A "key" issue, so to speak.

Wow

These are terrific vaillant, and I dare say never seen here before.

Do you know anything of the publisher, circulation, distribution and all that "nitty gritty" stuff?.

Hi Duffman, thank you.

Arnoldo Mondadori (which changed occasionally his publishing name from "Edizioni Walt-Disney Mondadori" to "A.P.I." – acronym for "Italian Anonymous Periodicals") has been the italian publisher for all Disney material uninterruptedly from August 11, 1935 up to 1988, when Disney took on directly the publishing founding "Walt Disney Company Italia".

All Disney publications have always had huge print runs, so these are mostly rare because of the poor paper and the war events, which afflicted Italy and Europe a lot more than the USA.

Mondadori, mostly thanks to leading figures like Federico Pedrocchi and later on Mario Gentilini, established the world-renowned italian "school", whose stories have been published worldwide, but unfortunately they started to appear in english merely around 1988, with this 1955 story:

http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL++116-AP

an early Guido Martina/Romano Scarpa key classic (which re-intoduced the Blot as an even more disturbing figure).

Original splash page, side-by-side with the english edition (published in three parts on Gladstone’s "Mickey and Donald" #6-8, which I strongly recommend to Disney fans):

Any idea why the story(s) were censored? (I'm guessing "political" reasons)

No, no. Disney material was almost untouched by the restrictions imposed by the MinCulPop (the organism which looked over the press during fascism). They were cut simply because they did not fit the format or the scheduled number of pages.

This indeed very interesting. Is it in the Sunday newspaper format with text balloons as shown in my scans or does it have black and white illustrations with text underneath?

While I was at it, a cover from the "senior", magazine-sized publication, which printed the longer, mostly Mickey Mouse stories, "Gli Albi d’Oro" (pre-war, "golden age" series), issue No. 39, from April 1939.

As americans would say… "bondage cover"!

While going through some of my early Walt Disney's Comics and Stories, I came across a Bucky Bug story in #25 that is unlike any Disney comic I've ever seen. It's so unusual that I ended up reading it a couple of times. The scans below represent 11 of the 28 pages and give an idea of the storyline.

 

"War with the Flies", which appeared along with Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse Sundays, was written and inked by Earl Duvall starting in 1932 and ending with his departure from Disney in April 1933.

Isn’t also "War with the flies" a Silly Symphony adaptation?

Surely the InDucks database has indexed the story and its whereabouts.

Here’s the italian edition (insides are in two-color), from antological publication "Nel Regno di Topolino" (the very first italian Disney publication in "comic-book" format). Issue is from December, 1936.

I guess the story is heavily cut here as well, since it starts with the cannon fight on page 4.

50 cent first edition (a "well-loved" copy… ):

60 cent second edition:

Both covers should be by renowned italian cartoonist Antonio Rubino.

Ah, I have seen the "If bombs fall".

But is the other one "It’s the difference that counts" actually a comic?

@Bo_Hogg: Is that a comic?

Hi, This Godless Communism was published by Treasure Chest Comics which was "PFLAUM" --- NOT the Catechetical Guild. I've mentioned that to Bob Overstreet dozens of times??? Probably copyright protection.

Phil Levine

As far as I seem to get, George Pflaum gave his name to the publishing house at some point, but the Catechetical Guild was his own publishing house (maybe with associates, don’t know). as well.

The later issues of Treasure Chest where "This Godless Communism" was published are indeed published by "Geo A. Pflaum", but at that point the Catechetical Guild no longer existed as a publisher. Correct me if I am wrong.

(Thanks, BTW )

Sounds like the book is not VG and you should ask for a return.

I know 0.5, but for me it’s always the same problem.

Being in Italy, returning a 70-100USD book is more expensive than other. I’ve seen a seller has a coverless copy for 15USD, so I rather may be going for that. At least, I will have just a brittle cover…

Besides, the book was bought to cash a discount on a previous purchase, where another book wasn’t adequately described (Good, but with a missing centerfold and a half-torn out page ), so I guess for me it’s just curtains with that seller.

Now, an easiest question would be: how many golden age collectors there are in Italy? I would like to meet some other, but while there are people collecting silver age in original edition, I know of none collecting GA. (Biggest reason is the 98% of the production has never been published here).

Hope that works out well for you, "paizon"

Hmm… I think it’s "paisan". Should be some northern dialect.

But, hey… thanks, indeed.

This is a super rare Lev Gleason giveaway booklet. The guy I bought it from said in his 40 years of collecting golden age, he has never seen another one. It has no comics. It is all text but the back cover is cool, mentioning some of Lev's comics.

Hi Bo,

if it was the copy auctioned on eBay I thought about bidding on it, but then I gave up, I’m glad I didn’t, otherwise I would have uselessly raised your price…

I think these books are rare, but less rare than what one might think. Simple reason is that people very likely looks for comics-related things along comics' venues, while those are books, and thus more likely to be found in bookstores or antiquary book portals.

I started my interest in golden age thanks to Lev Gleason and Charles Biro’s Daredevil. Would you mind, just in case, describe the booklet's content for me in case I deepen the research with the Crime books (not in my current plans, now I am more on the war-related things)?

Nice pickup, anyway!

Oh, yes I’m italian.

I understand your advice about using CGC as a warranty, but to me it’s a hassle, plus the shipping cost is more.

My question was slightly bitter, but more humorous than tragic, I have already focused a roster of sellers I see I can trust, I was just heavily disappointed to see a known seller grading so poorly that he does not even mention brittleness.

I never think badly, but since I already had problems with this sellers, and since it simply seems he’s unable to grade (I think I would grade better than him, and this speaks a lot, considered my small experience) I will stop buying from him.

Thanks, o'mighty G.A.tor!

Oh G.A.tor, I have my first question for your oracle:

how do I get rid of the brittleness plague paranoia which has started to grow on me?

I just received a book which was advertised as a VG: it‘s solid but is so brittle I am fearful even to look at it.

As a veeery new (and broke) golden age collector this is not only an unpleasant surprise, but a thing which worries me.

How can you trust sellers you have not done business previously with, as long as brittleness is not disclosed?

It’s an old thread but… I just love that MMM issue 5.

The whiteness of the paper is amazing.

@Timely: they are too good to be entombed in CGC cases. I would break them out, no matter the commercial value.

It's considered a cool motor cycle cover.

It’s not just a "cool motor cycle cover". It’s a "cool, Cap and tommy-gun shooting Bucky leading russian-tanks towards Berlin while trampling nazi soldiers on the run".

It really has everything. Everything but being in my collection…

These are the covers of the collected edition of the trilogy, published 1945-1949 (collected in 1948-49). These are 1970s-80s reprints, but the covers are the original ones (except the added typography). I post those because they’re better quality images.

It’s worth of note that Jacovitti as a youngster was close to fascism (in the early Pippo story, the "kid gang" of Pippo and his friends got rescued from English spies by a Nazi submarine!) but was also among the first to see the dangers and illusions of fascist government, and so Pippo started to comment as early as 1945 about the illusions just swept away by the war.

I met Jack Kirby in person, and since then I felt him even closer than before (he’s been a huge influence on my education). Sooner or later I’d really love to buy that Foxhole issue with the bandaged soldier, which reflects a real-life experience he had after landing on Normandy's beach after the D-Day.

Pippo has been the first, and possibly most genuine, character by Jacovitti. He started drawing it at the age of 16, as catholic publisher A.V.E. proposed him to work on "Il Vittorioso", one of the few comics' titles based entirely on italian productions.

Unfortunately his work is largely unknown in English, but I’d love to attempt some translations, as I dream about a possible antologic "fanzine" publishing cross-referenced comics from the wartime years (Lou Fine's work has been one of my most delightful discoveries).

@Boot: Wouldn’t the Jack Kibry war-themed titles like "Foxhole", which recollected generic war memories of his own experience, although not based on actual facts, quailify?

We have a very interesting, I would say quite unique, example of this in Italy, with our cartoonist Benito Jacovitti, which published his first story in 1940 (at the age of 16) whose character, Pippo, ends up saved by German navy, then got enrolled, went close to be forcedly listed in the SS (if I recall correctly), and then, in 1945-1949, slightly after the war – now artistically mature – produced an unforgettable trilogy of the same character which deals with dictatorship, war, and peace.

An example of the second episode collected in a comic book (originally presented in magazine):

L’Uomo Ragno #1 featured a collage with Romita artwork. Spidey has those little "sparklings" around his head, and if no one knows, might think it’s his Spider-sense tingling, while it’s taken from the inside pages of the "non-Comics Code" drug-themed issues.

 

Actually it's from the inside pages of Amazing Spider-man #48. Spidey is not drugged, he is just dizzy from a cold. The drug-themed issues were not until four years later,

Oh, thanks, I remembered vaguely, as a friend of mine told me that years ago, but very likely I made confusion.

It has nothing to do with the content anyway. A thing which has been common to almost all the italian #1 issues.

BTW, for those who may be interested, I have seen an acquaintance of mine has acquired copies in high grade of the italian "Nembo Kid" (one of the earlier titles which published Superman and Batman stories of the 1960s), here:

http://vintagecomics.forumcommunity.net/?t=50348403

(text is in italian, but if you scroll down you can see some pictures)

It´s funny cause its true

 

http://nick-caputo.blogspot.pt/2011/08/rejected-covers.html

Hey, that's great. However, see that the author recognizes the dramatic quality of the original pose. Not only Spidey descends from above, but he’s also doing that by webs. Either Goodman or Stan were too sensitive about such a silly idea. And I’m sure who did it wasn’t enthusiastic about redrawing Spidey for these reasons.

I think it’s definitely the cover it should have been.

I’m sorry but… – at least in this case – italians do it better.

Update

 

Midtowncomics.com [Gerry Gladston]

Thank you Norrinn,

it seems they don’t have so much golden age…

Hello. This thread is so people can talk about how great I am.

I think this was already chronicled in your Lev Gleason-titled comic book.

\(shrug\) Not wanting to go further on the definition itself, here is a good read about what might be considered, or not, a variant:

@Barbarian: My reasoning: I think we already have the definition in meaning of the word. Otherwise, we would define any foreign edition of a local comic (either way, from any starting language/culture to another) as a "variant", which is a too much vague definition for a concept for which we already have the term: "foreign edition" (as related as its country of origin).

Any idea what year this came out? I'm wondering if it predates the Italian version of this book

@Bill: Italian edition came out in May 27, 1971. So the Brazilian edition it’s the first use of the different Ditko cover (although it’s been recolored not following the original color scheme). Would be interesting to know more about the cover story.

I actually prefer the other one. The one that was used in the US doesn´t have Spidey´s *spoon* pointed at the readers while he´s clutching his hands

May just be that I’ve always been exposed to the italian edition, but I always thought that pose quite dramatic, with some tension which is lacking in the more conventional original cover. I find it weaker, like Spidey’s very relaxed in tackling Molten. Don’t know what is a *spoon* but I guess is Spidey’s "backside"…