Katchoo

Good It's not by any means the worst case of refrigeration I've seen. From memory, Michonne had a personality before it happened so that's more than some cases, and shows how low the bar can really go. Often the woman is raped just so the brave boyfriend can go and get revenge or some other nonsense. The woman isn't even a "character", just a thing to move the plot forward. A similar question has been asked and I answered it in the very post of mine that you quoted. Also, I never read that far. Google I only really included #4 and #5 to show how much more 50 Shades sold to whatever came next. And to scientifically prove that EL James is one of the best writers the world has ever seen. Even better than Kirkman.

oh man, i actually did a little lawl.

..........or racist comments in some cases. I did this morning, 54 mg of it. So either you're just randomly making stuff up, and coincidently were correct. Or, you've been stalking me, or illegally accessing my medical records, in which case, I would stop that immediatley.

Did anyone order the box set thingy with all 7(?) covers? Are there any pictures of it yet? Also does anyone buy the hardcovers? I just noticed you can buy the 6th volume with a slipcase to fit all of them in

Good grief. It's clearly not a story about rape. It was thrown in as a plot device. Why do I have to keep repeating that? What do you mean by reading content like this and moving on? The fact hardly anyone ever calls this stuff out, especially guys, is part of the problem. The fact it is to be expected is part of the problem. You're completely oblivious to what you're saying, aren't you? Hey, it's just a rape, no big deal, I've seen worse, and anyway it's horror - what do you expect? I mean, really? And you studied gender in film & lit? Puh-lease. Yes sexism. The fact it's not even recognised as such is part of the problem. Refrigerating women is sexism. The Glen and children remarks you made are as nonsensical as the reverse racism argument. I'd love to hear about how you came to that conclusion. (No, not really)

Wow even with that Hack writing the books seems to be going strong

Not sure what your point is? I don't know what you mean by that? Why should I have to accept sexism? Why should I have to accept the sensationalistic use of rape in a book just for a bit of shock factor? I don't even know if that's what you mean by taking "the good and the bad". You really missed my point.. Or you just didn't read what I wrote. I'm saying the story, as a whole, is being written for entertainment purposes. It's not always going to be philosophical or deep. I also said that I was emotionally affected by the rape scenes, so please stop painting me to be an insensitive, misogynistic, rape enthusiast. If you're going to include rape in a story I'd hope you'd have something intelligent to say. You know, a point of including it other than for entertainment purposes. Otherwise it's not unreasonable for it to be called lazy, sensationalistic, gratuitous, sexist refrigeration and appealing to the lowest common denominator. When I claimed it was lazy writing earlier you pretty much said "So what? It's meant to be entertaining." Making you feel "emotional" by throwing in a rape scene is the work of a hack.

Really? I posted a link mainly because you said "So Rape is a lazy, brainless plot device?" like it was the first time you had ever heard the claim, and also because, if you were truly interested in it rather than just arguing blah blah on a forum then you could go and read a piece that is well thought out. BREAKING NEWS: Man thinks rape of woman as plot device is not offensive. BREAKING NEWS: Man doesn't understand what the problem of using the rape of a woman as a plot device is. "So what if it's lazy writing?" he says. "It's meant to be entertaining" he says.

Having rape in a story could be ok if you're commenting on sexism or perhaps showing the very real devastating effects of rape (but who would want to watch that? not very "entertaining"). It could start with having the rapist as not some evil monster of the film but actually just the normal guy next door. I don't know if that would be too dull or too uncomfortable for people. It's hard to answer because I can't think of any book/movie/tv show that's done it in an earnest, intelligent way. I haven't seen or read TGWTDT and I don't know if Stieg Larsson got flack for it or not. The media only ever latches on to a particular story every now and then. I've no idea why some are ignored and others are criticised. Mark Millar was an easy target cos he's always getting criticised for something.

Sometimes I can't tell when people are being serious or sarcastic online but assuming you're serious... It is pretty much refrigeration. I'm getting more interested in watching the show now, just to see how they can take the comic and make something a bit different out of it. Rape is so entertaining! Do you really just not understand the argument at all?

Like I said, other people can argue this much more eloquently than me but you can read about the backlash Mark Millar recently got for pretty much the same thing. http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Kick--2-Creator-Mark-Millar-Rape-Comments-Have-So-Many-People-Angry-38950.html - that article puts it quite well but it was the first one google found for me so I'm sure there are better. I think the argument of including rape so that the story remains realistic is problematic for a number of reasons but in this case I find it hard to believe that this extra bit of realism is needed in a zombie book. By the way, the person who said that Kirkman wanted to make people angry by including the rape scene - that's pretty much the hallmark of a hack.

yeah Kirkman really sucks LAWL what I meant to say is that Kirkman is an awesome writer and that is a fact that can be proven with SCIENCE. etc

Oh wow.

so, what you're saying is that kirkman obviously did a great job because he got the response out of you that he probably wanted. Kirkman wanted me to be angry that he used a sensitive topic like rape as a plot device? yes. that's what i said. and it worked perfectly. I don't think you're making much (any) sense. It made me stop reading TWD and see him as a terrible writer. Why would he want that? You're saying he used rape to get a response out of people. What kind of spooned up is that? It's not :censored:ing edgy or smart. It's pathetic. It's something I'd expect from a teenager writing their first "shocking" essay.

so, what you're saying is that kirkman obviously did a great job because he got the response out of you that he probably wanted. Kirkman wanted me to be angry that he used a sensitive topic like rape as a plot device? He wanted me to think of him as a lazy, terrible writer appealing to the lowest common denominator?

.

The rape revenge was the laziest writing I can even imagine and I don't think I should have to expect that (lazy writing) in any book. In this case, most definitely 100% yes. I'm not the first person to say this stuff. There are loads of blogs etc on rape as a plot device. Here's one example: http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/can-we-stop-using-rape-as-a-plot-device-20130812-2rrwh.html. They usually say it much better than me. Or look up how much flack Mark Millar got for the rape in Kick 2 or Hitgirl or whatever it was. Builds character development? Because she threw up and cried? Kirkman needed to have her raped in order to build her character? Has the show suffered from having this cut out? Is Michonne a lesser developed character? There was nothing mature about what I'm complaining about. That's my problem with it.

Nah I'm not interested in getting back into the comic. To be fair I wasn't enjoying it anyway so the Michonne thing was just the final nail for me. It's maybe the most addictive book I've ever read though because trade after trade I was thinking it was but kept reading. It's a fast read though, I think I was maybe patiently waiting for it to get good. (Sorry TWD fans) Still interested in the tv show though since it sounds like it has better writers . It is a horror comic book. :shrug: It's funny though. Some people love that stuff, and some people hate it. I know people that stopped reading after issue 48 because the Lori splash was too much. To me, it was ballsy of Kirkman to do it and have it pay off. I'm not sure what you mean. It's a horror comic so I should expect it to have lazy, brainless writing? Oh, I just looked up the Lori thing - it's not that I'm anti-gore. I don't put a book down in disgust because someone has their guts splattered everywhere. I mean, I love the Saw films. That wasn't my problem at all with the whole Michonne Governor thing. It's bad enough that rape was used as a plot device (Mark Millar got lots of flack for that - Kirkman gets a pass for some reason), but the best, most intelligent response to it he could dream up was for Michonne to have a whole issue of torture porn. It's a guy writing about something he has absolutely no understanding of for no reason other than to shock and to show what a bad bad man the governor was. Argh, it actually makes me angry thinking about it. It's like if Beavis and Butthead were obsessed with shock and gore instead of sex and decided to write a horror comic. "Huh uh huh and then the Governor rapes Michonne huh huhuh uh. Brutal huh uh" "Yeah, huh uh huh and then like Michonne is all angry huh uh huh and scoops his eyeball out with a spoon huh uh huh" Anyway, I don't wanna get into a big discussion about that stuff here, I really just wanted to know how it was changed in the tv show and I'm glad it was handled in a more adult manner. Yes it works from season to season. There are similar scenes, near parallels and enough complete differences between the comic and the show to make it work as a fan. I only started watching it in earnest recently and was glad I did. Pretty much like you I got distracted for a long time but have almost caught up now. They manage to keep the whole zombie threat thing tense enough and it doesn't get too tired 4 seasons in. Once or twice a season so far there have been some really outstanding episodes as well. You should give it a real try. Cool. I mean, I assume it works for people who have never even read the comic too cos I doubt the only fans of the show are fans of the comic. So I guess it's possible to like the show even if you don't like the comic. Which season is the governor stuff in? And whereabouts in the comic is the show currently at, in terms of issue number (roughly)? Just read there's a recent episode called Too Far Gone - assume that's featuring stuff in the 13th trade? What happens when the show catches up with the comic?

Thanks. I'm glad the rape was cut out. I assume the torture porn that went on in the comic as Michonne's revenge didn't happen either? I think I've mentioned it before in here but that was what made me stop reading the book. It was some of the laziest and most brainless writing I've ever endured. I might give the show another chance. I watched the first few episodes and thought it was ok, if a little slow, but lost interest/got distracted by other stuff. Does the quality of the show hold up from season to season?

Can someone tell me what happened in this show regarding the governor guy and Michonne? Someone mentioned in the Preacher thread that the gov was tamed a bit for tv. I don't watch it but was wondering what they changed. Cheers.

p666

It's not your prediction - that Saga will end up being better than Y - that I find ridiculous. It may well end up being better, though that's subjective anyway. It was the reason you gave for your prediction. I thought I was pretty clear on that.

I think "ridiculous" was the word I used.

who said that? You did.

The idea that Brian and Pia didn't do their best possible work on Y The Last Man just because they didn't own the rights is utterly ridiculous. I guess The Pro and Back to Brooklyn are better than Preacher because Garth Ennis owns the rights to the former. Chin Music is going to be Steve Niles' best work ever. Ten Grand and Protectors Inc are going to be better than Midnight Nation. Jeff Lemire's Sweet Tooth and Trillium obviously aren't as good as his Top Shelf work. Scott Snyder is most definitely not doing his best work right now. He's waiting until he puts out an Image book.