mike-honcho

You think people would notice these things before posting these links... the book sold though, so whoever wanted it felt like 350 was an acceptable price no, it didn't really sell. just because something sells for a a certain price doesn't make it real. chances of this book not being paid for is slim and it will be relisted. price manipulation and shill bidding is a huge problem on ebay. I've heard the arguments, but you can't ignore that there are probably a few folks out there that heard about the astounding PP gold-rush recently and had no prior Ebay history....that ended up listing for auction. That doesn't make it a shill, but it does make it appear to be so. Someone selling with 0 feedback doesn't set off alarm bells as much as people with 0 feedback or little feedback bidding like crazy. I've never sold a single thing on Ebay....ever......and I've been registered for years. My feedback has only come from purchases. If I dropped some PPs up there, would I be getting slammed for shilling? Probably, and it would be a falsehhood. I'm not saying there's no shenanigans on the bay, cause there surely are. Some of my first posts on the forum were about these issues: ie-price manipulation of the GPA via the bay, etc. I believe it's ongoing, but then again there are literally hundreds of other auctions to view and see what the general consensus is. Those outlier sales are always suspect but not necessarily shills. I've been guilty myself of getting caught up in a bidding war for something I want, and have overpaid significantly...only to find the same item way cheaper later. So this is really an insoluble situation. Shill or no shill, it will influence the sales the same ways legitimate sales do and vice versa. Sales are sales even if they're fakey sales. i feel almost 110% confident calling that 350 ebay sale a shill fake sale, and it has nothing to do with the seller having 0 feedback. i have been involved in buying and selling on ebay for a long time. i am also a collector of basketball cards, particularly kobe bryant cards, so i am very aware and do my research on auctions to make sure it's just not someone trying to pump up the price of their comic, and to me this is clearly what looks to be going on here. you are right though, even fake sales will move the market, which is exactly what people involved in shilling want you to buy in too, so they can make more money off of you and others, so your last sentence sums everything up and couldn't be a more jacked up way to look at things imo. because once you get price manipulating involved it's bad news for all collectors. people involved in this type of thing are nothing but scum and end up just ruining the hobby for others in the long run, not to mention it is illegal.

You think people would notice these things before posting these links... the book sold though, so whoever wanted it felt like 350 was an acceptable price no, it didn't really sell. just because something sells for a a certain price doesn't make it real. chances of this book not being paid for is slim and it will be relisted. price manipulation and shill bidding is a huge problem on ebay. though not as prevelant in comics. it has run rampant on other hobbies especially basketball cards.. for a while there were a small group of buyers who were driving costs of michael jordan cards through the roof in a attempt to manipulate the prices of their very high end collections and it worked, really well. so don't think it can't and hasn't already possibly happened in the case of some comic books. just be careful and don't take the sell price of things as ebay as gospel, that is how price manipulation works. look at every auction you see objectively and study the bid history first, before you just buy in and assume that is the price of the book.

i see your point but pm'ing a few people to give fair warning to stock up before you post isn't a big deal either. everyone likes to share info and get recognized for it anyway, so it will never stop, but i do see what cbt is trying to say. you are also right in the sense that this thing we all do isn't rocket science and with a little time, leg work, and trial and error you can become fairly proficient at it all on your own, however there are a lot of lazy lazy people in this world looking for a free lunch. .

i get what you're saying here, and don't think it's a bad thing. i know you guys over here hate blowoutcards people for some reason, but i had the same exact idea in a thread over there a few weeks ago and got blasted by many for the idea too. both these boards this one more so of course, tend to get a ton of lurkers that wait for news and then run to whatever site as quick as possible and load up their carts. what you want to do is tip the people that you feel contribute and deserve it more off and give everyone some time to get theirs before you post it here for public consumption, and then let the vultures pick the carcass clean after the fact. i get it, and totally agree.

i'd imagine pretty significantly. every shop i go to and ask about this says how it has completely taken them by surprise and they are increasing their orders by a lot. they have caught up to this much quicker than they have to the panzerfaust demand imo. i imagine there will be plenty on the shelf ala saga 9.

well said sir. another well written post, and your're 110% right.

If Menace had approached CBLDF before the show and bought 40% of the run (which is essentially what he's done) and then flipped them, I could see a beef. But this is a compromise where CBLDF gets an additional benefit and Menace is compensated for his time. And boardies get a shot. Is it perfect? I agree, no. However, as you note, con exclusives get flipped, one way or another. At least this way, CBLDF gets some of that secondary market value. The other point, though, is that you and Jimmy have said that Menace should be providing this service for free (with Jimmy saying he would have done this for nothing). Fine sentiments, but actions speak louder than words, so please let us know which cons (SDCC? WWLA?) you'll be attending so we can provide our lists of charity exclusives to pick up. In the case of comic variants, make sure they're 9.8s and pack them well for shipping. Thanks! first let me point out that i think menaces intentions were 100% good. but it was handled poorly, and he wasn't ready or even expecting the avalanche of requests and criticisms he got. i have no ill will towards him at all. second my point to you would be this. why did any boardies here even deserve a shot in the first place to purchase this book before release? this wasn't a exclsuive for cgc members, this was a exclusive for protland con attendees. i wish i was attending the sdcc but i was like number 47k in line last saturday. i might be going to the wizard world l.a. haven't decided yet. but you keep glossing over the fact that i said multiple times i would have no problem of menace flipping for a profit like everyone else when he actually attends the con and stands in line like everyone else to purchase, and i;m sure he will attend the con and get copies and probably even get copies for many members here, and i say good for him and anyone who gets some. I still havent figured out the point of your posts Technically he would have been the first in line and all the purchases would have been his what????? . how do you figure that?

i think he had the 200 before he actually managed to resell them. There is a big backlash playing out behind the scenes to all this. If he gets capped at 100, it will be in response to pressure from others. wow, quite the s-storm while i was out . For the record, I didnt say where my opinion lay. I simply said, there was a backlash playing out behind the scenes (which clearly came to foreground while i was gone). I was also pointing out that those saying the order would be limited, were correct ONLY if external pressure caused it (which also seems to have occurred) I think all comic books sold and talked about in the modern section are being "flipped" in one way or another, and Menace didnt do anything different or "wrong". Where the problems seemed to stem from, and what I alluded to in my other post, is that pre-selling a convention exclusive, OUTSIDE the convention, (even if the person picks them up at the convention) is fundamentally undermining it BEING a convention book. If Menace had bought 200, and made the offer on the thread with the books in hand, I doubt the backlash would have occurred. I do think the service he provided, and the price he offered, were both fair and kind. Only the timing caused the big chaos. i agree with everything you said 110%. well said.

If Menace had approached CBLDF before the show and bought 40% of the run (which is essentially what he's done) and then flipped them, I could see a beef. But this is a compromise where CBLDF gets an additional benefit and Menace is compensated for his time. And boardies get a shot. Is it perfect? I agree, no. However, as you note, con exclusives get flipped, one way or another. At least this way, CBLDF gets some of that secondary market value. The other point, though, is that you and Jimmy have said that Menace should be providing this service for free (with Jimmy saying he would have done this for nothing). Fine sentiments, but actions speak louder than words, so please let us know which cons (SDCC? WWLA?) you'll be attending so we can provide our lists of charity exclusives to pick up. In the case of comic variants, make sure they're 9.8s and pack them well for shipping. Thanks! first let me point out that i think menaces intentions were 100% good. but it was handled poorly, and he wasn't ready or even expecting the avalanche of requests and criticisms he got. i have no ill will towards him at all. second my point to you would be this. why did any boardies here even deserve a shot in the first place to purchase this book before release? this wasn't a exclsuive for cgc members, this was a exclusive for protland con attendees. i wish i was attending the sdcc but i was like number 47k in line last saturday. i might be going to the wizard world l.a. haven't decided yet. but you keep glossing over the fact that i said multiple times i would have no problem of menace flipping for a profit like everyone else when he actually attends the con and stands in line like everyone else to purchase, and i;m sure he will attend the con and get copies and probably even get copies for many members here, and i say good for him and anyone who gets some.

i'm sure menace will still be getting copies and there will be plenty available for people to get after the fact. it's just nice to know that the people who deserve a shot at these, and include menace in this statement because he is attending will be able to get a fair shot at purchasing. and too anyone who thinks that it was a bunch of internet nobodies whining and being "butthurt" about missing out or whatever, no chance. if you think this was anything else but the publisher of image being pissed off about what was going on here, and calling the cbldf and putting the kibosh on this whole thing then i don't know what to tell you.

I understand, but things can digress into madness quickly. Just curious, were you wait listed for this book, hence the frustration? If so, I'm sure you will be able to get a copy from someone. lmao, nah i didn't try to get in on this. i saw all the orders going on and was reading the threads. at first i thought it was on the up and up, then as i read the threads the more i saw what was going on and it got me a little perturbed. i wouldn't have joined in based on how i saw things playing out, and especially once i realized that a profit was being made of of it. call me a liar or whatever you want but that is not how i operate. these posts are not coming from any frustrations of missing out, as much as others are trying to paint it. i'm just the type of person who hates to see things like this happened and people get the short end of the stick like this. i mean in all reality try to spin this as you want, but this book wasn't meant for the people on this board to buy before release. it wan meant for the attendees of the portland comic con. everyone says they are grateful to menace for giving them a chance to get these titles and i believe you guys are, but if you weren't attending well guess what you shouldn't be able to get one unless you buy on the secondary market after they were distributed to all the attendees who stood in line. call it sour grapes or whatever you want, but that's just the way i see it sorry.

wasn't calling him names just expressing where i'm coming from on why i think it is a raw deal. i do not think he is a bad guy. sorry if things were worded to strongly i guess, but i was just trying to express where my thoughts were coming from on this.

I think this was handled really poorly, and I have let both Menace and the CBLDF know that. It doesn't matter if it's for charity or for profit, making show exclusives available prior to the show is not good form. Many people paying to get into conventions are doing so with the intention of buying things they can only get at the con. 500 copies are going to the convention, and I think it's really $hitty to create a situation whereby scalpers lay claim to a large percentage of those copies in advance. -e.s. Eric Stephenson Publisher Image Comics, Inc. www.imagecomics.com i like how everyone just glances over the post from the publisher of this book itself expressing how he thought this whole thing was a terrible idea. kudos to you good sir. good to know me and few others aren't the only ones bothered by this whole mess. also in response to nexus i think. i'm all for buying multiple copies at a lcs and flipping them. this is a completely different scenario though, so don't try to spin it like that. this would be akin to the shop owner letting 20 of his buddies come in on a tuesday night and stockpiling all the hot releases before he opens the next day, which for all i know probably does happen often, and would be wrong. this book was meant for one reason and now almost half the print run has been allowed to be pre-sold and slipped out the back door for a marked up price. this is just flat out wrong and a disservice to all the people that go to cons for exclusive events like this. bottom line. Would you have been OK, then, if Menace (or whomever) went to the show and bought out every single copy and then flipped them? Is that close enough to buying multiple copies at the LCS on Wednesday to flip? I don't see anywhere where the CBLDF set any limits, so it's highly conceivable for a small number of people to buy out the entire run at the show. Someone could theoretically buy all 500 copies for $5K. Believe it or not, that's a pittance for some of the wheeler-dealers here and they'd kill for an opportunity to corner the market on an exclusive like this. As I said, nothing perfect about the current situation, but it could have been worse. As it is, I'm happy to pay Menace $10/copy for his trouble and will do so again in the future. Especially since it's cheaper than attending the con, the charity benefits, and I have as of yet to see any of his critics offer to do the same for free. like i said in my previous post if he stood in line like everyone else the day they came out then fine i have no problem with him flipping them for 300 bucks each if he wanted to. point is he went under the table and called in a favor to get 200 copies set aside before it is even released and anyone else has had a fair chance to get any. a big plus for comic cons is too attend to get all the free and exclusive swag. some get it to keep and some to sell. i have no problem with that. the problem i have is going through the backdoor like this. it is unfair and underhanded. if i attend a con near me like sdcc or wizard world la, yeah i'm gonna get in line for things like that and i may even sell them for a profit, but if i show up and find out that some dude on the internet already got 200 and sold them before the doors even opened i'd be super pissed off, and you and everyone else here would too if you were going to that con.

I think what you are missing is I had made MORE than this with private PM's offering me $30-50 per book to pick them up. One option I had was to go to the booth buy as many as I could and re-sell them right? Seems like a whole lot easier than contacting the CBLDF asking to set something up to greater benefit the charity and deal with this fallout. Anyone who wanted to rent a house, buy a $300 tables, pay to travel to a show,plan months in advance to go to a show, dedicate their lives to a studio and industry they believe in, quit their jobs, Quit going to school to be a doctor... feel free... jump up and say I was doing something wrong here. the problem lies with you co-horting and conspiring with a connection you had at cbldf to prearrange 200 copies of this to sell at a profit. it's not like you stood in line for 2 hours to get some and then came on here to sell them after the fact. if that was the case then sell them for 300 at that point and i'd pat you on the back and say well done. fact is you went through the back door to secure these weeks before they are available to the public and sold them for profit. to me this is the main problem i have with all of this. i understand that cbldf made more money but it still doesn't make it right.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even the unpopular ones (thumbs u yeah well money does funny things to people. always has always will.

I think this was handled really poorly, and I have let both Menace and the CBLDF know that. It doesn't matter if it's for charity or for profit, making show exclusives available prior to the show is not good form. Many people paying to get into conventions are doing so with the intention of buying things they can only get at the con. 500 copies are going to the convention, and I think it's really $hitty to create a situation whereby scalpers lay claim to a large percentage of those copies in advance. -e.s. Eric Stephenson Publisher Image Comics, Inc. www.imagecomics.com i like how everyone just glances over the post from the publisher of this book itself expressing how he thought this whole thing was a terrible idea. kudos to you good sir. good to know me and few others aren't the only ones bothered by this whole mess. also in response to nexus i think. i'm all for buying multiple copies at a lcs and flipping them. this is a completely different scenario though, so don't try to spin it like that. this would be akin to the shop owner letting 20 of his buddies come in on a tuesday night and stockpiling all the hot releases before he opens the next day, which for all i know probably does happen often, and would be wrong. this book was meant for one reason and now almost half the print run has been allowed to be pre-sold and slipped out the back door for a marked up price. this is just flat out wrong and a disservice to all the people that go to cons for exclusive events like this. bottom line.

in the case that this were being done for a charity, yes. i would expect it to be done gratis since it's for a good cause. that is the very definition of the word charity. not hey i'll do this for a good cause only if it puts a couple bucks in my pocket. also imo these should not have been allowed to be backdoored like this in the first place, period. but if they were going to at least all the money should have went to charity. btw i sell on ebay a lot, comics and sports cards and know what pain shipping is. but i would create invoices, sort, and ship all day for 2k, i'll tell you that much. 2k is a lot of money and it's not like this guy as to go dig 200 ditches for the money. he is shipping comic books. How about for free? If any of us had a problem with him making a few bucks per issue I dont think the list would have filled up so quickily. I understand what youre saying though but is it not just as easy to not purchase them from him if you dont agree with him profitting?? look not trying to get in a fight with you or anyone here. it is what is. but obviously the reason people had no problem buying them from him was because everyone saw dollar signs. they saw a opportunity to get in on something and make a profit, which is the purpose of flipping comics, buy low sell high. i understand that and am all for it. i just disagree with the method and motives of this particular venture is all. this was meant for the comic con and meant for charity. now it is being backdoored to a select few who have knowledge of this board for profit. now the masses who were going to stand in line for a hour or more are left out with almost half the print run gobbled up. no doubt i'm sure many of them are lining up and buying for fun and profit too, but i guess i just think rules are rules and should be followed sometimes. just leaves a bad taste is all.

in the case that this were being done for a charity, yes. i would expect it to be done gratis since it's for a good cause. that is the very definition of the word charity. not hey i'll do this for a good cause only if it puts a couple bucks in my pocket. also imo these should not have been allowed to be backdoored like this in the first place, period. but if they were going to at least all the money should have went to charity. btw i sell on ebay a lot, comics and sports cards and know what pain shipping is. but i would create invoices, sort, and ship all day for 2k, i'll tell you that much. 2k is a lot of money and it's not like this guy as to go dig 200 ditches for the money. he is shipping comic books.

hi, just a newbie and will probably get slammed, but i feel the backlash this is causing is justified. also, i was under the impression that the whole 30 was going to the charity, and i was kind of okay with it knowing more money was going to a good cause, but now i see that menace is also profiting handsomely of this. it just seems wrong to me. maybe a lot of 100 should have been allowed with a limit of 1 and the whole 30 going to charity, i could be okay with that. but it was just a free for all with everyone buying multiples for a quick flip, and now it is screwing the people who might actually want to get one at the convention it was created for. i just think this is bad ju ju all the way around, and i am kind of disgusted by the cbldf for allowing these books meant for a convention and charity to be backdoored like this for a quick buck. i like to buy comics and flip them just as much as anyone else, but this shouldn't have been allowed. , i hope i didn't just make a bunch of enemies here with a controversial first post like this, but just wanted to speak my mind. i really do enjoy reading these boards and hope to contribute more in the future.