Moondog

Steve (or Vinnie): 1974 pre-dates Joe Desris' association with Sol by over 10 years. The Double Action 1 ashcan came from Sol then? I think he was still employed at that time so I highly doubt he would be raiding DC's archives for his own gain. Are you positive about this? You never mentioned this to me before... --Gary

I love to read threads about ashcans...except they seem to spur Raven to post his nonsense. Harvey's right about the 2 Superman ashcans. I won't part with my 7.5. Along with the Wonder Woman and the Action Funnies, it was the first ashcan I ever owned. I'll be interviewed on Vinnie's radio show next Tuesday. I'm sure one of the topics will be ashcans... --Gary

I'm sure we can work something out if they are available, Mark. Thanks for the peace offering.

Sheesh, Mark! I've only been trying to buy them for nearly 20 years! You gotta cut me a little slack!

Kat: I don't have my notes at hand - and don't remember the name of the owner of the Supergirl and Superhombre ashcans - but are you saying that he's ready to sell? The fellow who owns them is a real nice guy - but very stubborn! It would be very interesting to see how these books would do in today's marketplace. They are both the only known copies to exist. I'd be interested in them...as would many others. --Gary

Pimp: You're paging the wrong guy...Davidpg is the fellow we're waiting for...

There is one Superman/Superhombre ashcan known to exist. It's owned by a collector who also owns the only known Supergirl ashcan. It's a low-grade book - probably Fair/Good. The cover art is the same as the small Superman/Superhombre logo that ran on the cover of Action 302?, 303?, 304? near the DC bullet. It's dated April, 1945 and the interior is Superman 31. There are only 2 Superwoman ashcans that are know to exist. DC has one in there archives and I own the other. There is no Superwoman content in the book. The cover is More Fun 73 and the interior is Action 38. It's dated January, 1942. My ultimate goal was to own the Superman, Superwoman, Superboy and Supergirl ashcans. When I could not acquire the Supergirl, I sold the Superboy back to Joe Desris, and I sold one of my 2 Superman issues.

Mark: Alan (Pedigree Man) has made the pilgrimage, as have a few others. I'm in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. If our schedules mesh, I'd be happy to take you to the bank vault and show you my collection. Seeing so many ashcans in one place, a friend once commented that it was almost a "religious experience." --Gary

Mark: To answer your question on how I acquired them... Most were purchased directly from Joe Desris, at one time the foremost Batman collector in the world. The first lot was purchased at the Chicago mini-con in October, 1985 and I got the rest over the next year or so. Joe was the agent for Sol Harrison, the retired president of DC. I acquired the 2 war issues from Sparkle City Comics in the late 80's at the San Diego Con. They were the only DC ashcans I ever found for sale at a con. I got the All-Star from Jack Mallette, a long time collector/dealer. I purchased the Champion, Cyclone and O.K. directly from the publisher's daughter. And I have a couple of Fawcetts that I bought from Will Lieberson's son. I always hoped that when I started selling some of mine, others would come out of the woodwork as the prices increased. That's why I had my fingers crossed that Raven's was legit...The Batman ashcan is my holy grail (Green Lantern a close second...). --Gary

There are 2 in the census. One that Heritage sold a year or so ago (the 9.0). I own the 9.2...

Mark: I think they just missed it. I'm sure they'd add it if you sent it back, but I don't think it's necessary. The existence of the ashcan itself is proof that they wanted to trademark the title. Even modern ashcans (those from the 90's) were produced to secure trademarks. I have 3 or 4 ashcans given to me from various DC execs of modern titles. Mike Gold gave me one when he was at First Comics. Now the Image ashcans from the 90's are more s/n collectibes than true ashcans, but they COULD have been used in a traditional sense if Image wanted to. BTW, I wanted to post my scan of Action Funnies, but I keep getting an error message that the file contains nothing...I'll keep trying...Still don't know how to post the actual image though... --Gary

And not to split hairs or pick nits, but it's important to know that ashcans were created to secure trademarks - not copyrights. They had nothing to do with characters - just titles. --Gary

Mark: Wow, I owned all those DCs at one time... If you have access to Mastronet catalogs you'll find the All-Star, Cyclone, and O.K ashcans. Comic Book Marketplace has all the DC's pictured as well as a census. Here's a couple I have scans of... --Gary

Mark: Was distracted and let this slip by. Very nice price for this book. If you want a quick flip, let me know! My CBM # 71 article has a census of DC ashcans. I also own a Champion ashcan and bought and sold a Cyclone and an O.K. Again, congrats on a great book at a great price (I estimated it would sell in the $1,500 - $2,500 range...). --Gary

Davidpg: Thanks for Part 1. I'm looking forward to more. I'm a bid confused about one thing: did you get all the stuff you mentioned for the initial fee of between $10,000 and $30,000? Or was that payment just to get started and you had to pay for the cash register, painting, carpet, back issue stock, etc. separately? I'm assuming so, but just want to sort out the facts. While reading your account it started to bring back memories of the horror stories that circulated through the industry back then. Hopefully your mom didn't lose her home or savings over this thing... --Gary

House: I don't know all the details, but Ross and Crestohl were selling 1,000,000 Comics franchises. For a large down stroke and monthly payments, you were sold an inventory of "hot selling" back issues and you were able to buy new comics at the "1,000,000 Comics price". I believe finding the location of your store was up to you. So basically they'd sell you some greatly overpriced back issues and membership in a buying cooperative...but I believe you had to buy the new books directly from them, meaning that you got drop shipped but if there were any problems with your order, you couldn't deal directly with the distributor (Heroes World?), so many of these guys were SOL each week. There may have also been a greatly over-priced point-of-sale system you had to buy... That's the basics. I'm interested in hearing the details.

Many of you know my background: Opened the first comic book store in suburban Chicago in 1978. Sold the 6-store Moondog's chain to Classics International Entertainment in 1994. Partner in the Chicago Comicon. Developer of the ComiCovers and the ComiCare line of collector supplies, Overstreet advisor, Windy City collection, etc...blah, blah, blah... Of all the weirdos, jerks, crooks and other ne'er-do-wells I've come across in all these years - in all the different facets of the comics business - Crestohl and Ross rank at or near the top. We're talking rarified Dupchek territory here. The fact that they actually sold a 1,000,000 Comics franchise is beyond belief to me. The slime just oozed out of them. I would think that it had to be obvious even to those with stars in their eyes... Not to open old wounds, but how much did it cost you in the end?

Thank god she didn't belt in the Batman and leave the baby on the roof!

Steve Fishler was in my office looking at a pile of Windy City # 1's. I had the WDC&S # 1 in my hands and was explaining how "fresh and supple it is". I then let it drop from my hand a few inches from the top of my desk to let it gently flop on my desktop to show the "suppleness" of the book. It was not in a bag with a board. Instead of plopping gently on my desk, somehow the book just glides right off my desk - like it was floating on air. We watched in horror as it landed on the top of the spine. It left a noticeable ding at the top of the spine. My guess is it went from 9.4 to 8.0/8.5. Steve simply said, "Why did you do that?" I stuttered and stammered and almost got phyically ill. I had no reply. To this date I've never seen anything happen like that again. Thank God, Steve bought it anyway. I've never told this story before because the action was very difficult to rationalize and I was so embarrassed. But heck, after nearly 20 years, I can almost laugh about it now. --Gary

Uncanny X-Men # 20. When I was a high school freshman. In 1966.

Oops. I thought this was a thread on the Prince Valiant Club.