Petey's Wheatcake

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not. No, they are so expensive because they are first appearances and the major keys of their time. Kevin76 is correct on this one. Demand is significantly more important than print run. Sure, we could imagine hypothetical instances where this would not be true, but they would have to involve outlandish, record-breaking numbers to have any impact on the first appearances of some of the most popular comic book characters of the last forty years. Spider-Man #1 is not comparable to Incredible Hulk #181.

Close and this book is sought after for that reason and one other combined. I think he was going for the first "impressive" appearence. The #28 seems more impressive than the "stay off my lawn" window appearance Ha, nice. Yes, but the topic is question was first cover appearance. We can argue that we like Spider-Man #1 as the best cover but that doesn't make it more valuable than pretty much an ASM from the original run. I'm pretty sure the last 25 posts or so have been arguing what *type* of cover appearance is *more important*...ASM #315 has Venom's head (which, by the way, TOTALLY ruined #316's jive...could have been, and should have been, a nice, slam-dunk, no question first cover...but nooooo!) And, the "disembodied head" thing that was all the rage from the 60's to the 80's, versus the "full body shot" cover. CM #26 is just a shadow window appearance. #28 has him dominating the cover, whether it's silhouette or not. I doubt anyone would make the claim that #33 is "more impressive" than #28, but I'm always surprised.... And Gamora's appearance in ST #180 is a cameo. So take THAT, alla youse! I don't know about more impressive, but I've always preferred the cover to 33, it was one of my favorite covers as a kid. I've always loved the cover to #33. It's a dynamic battle cover that grabbed my attention when I was a youngster as well. Actually, it was the first Captain Marvel back issue I ever bought, mostly due to that exceedingly "impressive" cover. I can see where a case can be made for #28 though. It's an extremely dramatic cover with a little more storytelling going on, and it features Thanos looming in the background, making what would eventually become his go-to Marvel movie expression. And shouldn't that signature grin earn the cover bonus points? It's kind of like the first time The Rock raised his eyebrow or Miley stuck her tongue out.

It won't. The thing that amazes me the most about this book is it isn't even the first appearance of the character(obviously she originated in the cartoon.) yeah it is kind of amazing the way comic collectors brush aside non-comic appearances. So should we be slabbing DVD's? I want a 9.8 first appearance of Bill Paxton. "Nice night for a walk, aye?" First appearance in continuity.

This was the original question. There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved. What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book. Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not. I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue. As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact. The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe. You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc. This is a great post. And it's a better conversation than the one we've been having! But perhaps beside the point. The question is not where the name The Teen Titans first appeared it is where the Teen Titans first appeared. If you are interested in the Chicago Cubs history you don't say they started in 1902 when the news papers coined the name "Cubs" or in 1907 when they officially took the name The Chicago Cubs. They were a team before that with a different name (The Chicago White Stockings) since 1876. Yeah, but they weren't the Cubs. I was going to use sports team analogies because I think they prove my point perfectly, but I felt that I'd already rambled on long enough. :-) If you really love that team, then 1876 is an important date to you. Great point. I agree 100%. If you only collect Cubs memorabilia though, then all you care about are references to the team known as The Chicago Cubs. It's really up to the individual. I think BB 54 matters and I want it in my collection. I cannot refer to that issue as the first appearance of the Teen Titans however, because it simply wasn't. In a hobby where collectors agonize over cameos, computer screens, framed pictures in the background, hands in the shadows, and various house ads, I think that distinction really matters.

This was the original question. There can be no other answer than BB 60. The name Teen Titans did not exist prior to this. Despite 36 pages of evidence to the contrary, there is nothing to be debated here. The first time a group of heroes is referred to as the "Teen Titans" is BB 60. Question answered. Problem solved. What can be argued is whether the answer to this question matters or not. Maybe only "people who collect trademarks" care about such silly nonsense as official team names. Maybe BB 54 is the more important book, and maybe it will always be the more valuable book. Those are fun things to debate, but they are entirely separate discussions which have no bearing on the original question. Maybe the group of heroes that eventually went on to refer to themselves as the Teen Titans first appeared together in BB 54. Okay. That can be debated (although it is debatable due to Robin's use of the word "after" and most importantly - Wonder Girl). Doesn't change the fact that the Teen Titans did not exist until BB 60. Maybe a team existed, but the Teen Titans did not. I think sfcityduck makes some great points regarding the formation of the team, and the only obvious inaccuracy in his statements is when he refers to BB 60 as the second appearance of the Teen Titans. That's impossible due to the fact that the name did not even exist until that issue. As a Titans collector, I think 54 is a must have issue. If I could only have one? That's an extremely tough call, but I think I would have to choose 54 over 60. I'm probably biased because it's always been the more sought after issue, but I also really enjoy that particular story. This, of course, is a matter of opinion. But almost everything debated in this thread has been a matter of opinion presented as fact. The official team name matters because comic collectors love the details. Minutiae matters in this hobby, and to be fair, this is a fairly significant point. It also matters because of $$$, but money has been an extremely important part of comic book collecting for as long as I've been alive. This should come as no surprise, and it's not really as nefarious an aspect of this hobby as some would lead us to believe. You can always collect whatever floats your particular boat, regardless of value, CGC labels, etc.

The latest rumor that I've read. http://badassdigest.com/2014/10/14/that-crazy-old-wizard-ewan-mcgregor-is-in-the-running-for-doctor-strange/

wouldn't pick it up if i were wearing a hazmat suit and asbestos gloves I just traded one in 6.0 for at least $200 worth of great books(if I'm being extremely conservative), so please let me know if you have a 5.0-6.0 copy available for $50. I like money.

I despise u but This is my new favorite quote. I will try to use it in conversation whenever possible.

Thank you, bronzejohnny and hippiecop. Such kind words, and you saved them for the 100 Page Super Spectacular! I think anyone who compliments me displays an aptitude for sound, logical reasoning, an unbiased understanding of all the relevant facts, and an extremely high level of class and sophistication. Okay, so who is going to start the "What will the Overstreet 2019 Top Ten List Look Like?" thread? I have a feeling that blazincomics has an opinion or two on this.

Haha. Thank you. That's exactly what I thought the first time I read Origins of Marvel Comics. I still annoy my kids to this day when I offer my them wheatcakes for breakfast. My son also requests that I don't refer to him as a milksop in public, but I can't help it.

SOTI book, classic cover Lot's of PCH fans/collectors and this has always been one of the "trophies". So, basically, for more reasons than just having a featured character in popular media. I see what you did there.

A "price variant" of a regular issue cannot be the "king" of the BA. Maybe the star wars 1 issue ( a comic book adapted from a movie) can be considered the "King of price variants", sure. But not all of the BA. That title is deservedly and indisputably hulk 181- the book that trades on a daily basis, and is one of the primary engines (if not THE primary engine) of the BA market. Just because something is more "expensive" the few times it sells in a year does not automatically make it the "king". It just makes it more expensive. Whether or not there is any rational basis why it actually is, is a whole other discussion. -J. Sure, if you are talking about the most important character - it's Wolverine. No other Bronze Age creation comes close. If we are excluding variants and discussing the most important book, then I agree with RMA. I'd go with GSXM #1. I thought we were discussing value, and if so, I was simply stating that Star Wars #1 deserves to be where it is. What I like about Star Wars is that demand and desirability play such a large part in it's value. If not for the fact that they originally printed ten copies for every man, woman and child in North America, the regular edition would be worth more than it is as well. At five years old I had multiples of this issue. It was everywhere. I wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating how many people want this book in their collections. It's a different beast than the other variants, and it is a beast. Do you think a book where most readers/collectors were precluded from ever having the opportunity to purchasing it on the newsstand (1977 was pre-direct market) should be categorized as a mainstream book in terms of value? I have no problem with separate lists(not that we need any lists at all, but then think of the many entertaining discussions we would miss out on), using different criteria. Wolverine is an extremely important character, and I am certain that IH181 will eventually be the most valuable non-variant Bronze Age comic book.

A "price variant" of a regular issue cannot be the "king" of the BA. Maybe the star wars 1 issue ( a comic book adapted from a movie) can be considered the "King of price variants", sure. But not all of the BA. That title is deservedly and indisputably hulk 181- the book that trades on a daily basis, and is one of the primary engines (if not THE primary engine) of the BA market. Just because something is more "expensive" the few times it sells in a year does not automatically make it the "king". It just makes it more expensive. Whether or not there is any rational basis why it actually is, is a whole other discussion. -J. Sure, if you are talking about the most important character - it's Wolverine. No other Bronze Age creation comes close. If we are excluding variants and discussing the most important book, then I agree with RMA. I'd go with GSXM #1. I thought we were discussing value, and if so, I was simply stating that Star Wars #1 deserves to be where it is. What I like about Star Wars is that demand and desirability play such a large part in it's value. If not for the fact that they originally printed ten copies for every man, woman and child in North America, the regular edition would be worth more than it is as well. At five years old I had multiples of this issue. It was everywhere. I wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating how many people want this book in their collections. It's a different beast than the other variants, and it is a beast.

Also, I believe that Star Wars #1 is the deserving king of the BA, not IH181. It's much harder to find, and also extremely popular. Checks both boxes unlike the IH181 or Cerebus #1. I highly doubt that anything will ever catch it value-wise, because unless Machine Man reaches Iron Man levels of success sometime in the next 20 years, nothing else combines relative scarcity and popularity the way Star Wars does.

I think, more than anything, that's precisely the thing which people cannot agree upon. Which is a ridiculous argument, because it's personal preference, and there is no arguing against personal preference. For the record, since it's been brought up by others, I like BOTH characters equally well...but while I have owned 3-4 Hulk #181s, they always end up for sale. My Cerebus #1s? I've owned them for closing on 10 years. I know which book is harder to get. That's the real problem in this entire thread: people wanting to convince everyone else that Wolverine is a cooler character, which no one has ever disputed. But these people are personally offended that Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181 in 9.2 and above, which is irrational. Indeed, but 99% of arguments on the internet seem to involve hurt feelings over a difference of opinion. Collect what you enjoy reading, searching for, whatever. As a collector, who really cares what OPG says? As an investor, irrational attachment to favorite characters is a great way to lose money. Honestly, I've always been a Spider-Man guy, but if someone else prefers Batman, I respect their right to be a clueless insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

I think, more than anything, that's precisely the thing which people cannot agree upon.

Do you really think any movie with "The Rock" cast is going to do well? Take a gander at his past movies,epic fails every one. I don't really care if it does well. I am more concerned about the lead up to the movie which will determine back issue sales. I'm worried that this is what we will be dealing with when it comes to the DC films. More Green Lantern than Guardians of the Galaxy. I'd be very surprised if Captain Marvel books don't get a bump in the short term, though.

Did I somehow imply that? I better edit my post if I did because, if so, that would be the stupidest thing I've ever written(and you'll be shocked to read this, but I've written some really stupid things in my time). I was talking about the BA specifically. Historically significant books lacking important appearances of popular characters will be trumped by key first appearances. I only mentioned the GA and SA books in reference to the original observation concerning the differences between the top books in the various ages. There was a time when AF #15 was not the king of the SA, but that changed when the character's popularity overwhelmed any other considerations. One quick caveat. I would take a VG 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over a VG AF #15 any day. Spider-Man is far and away my favorite character, but I've had plenty of low grade AF #15s. My opportunities to get the Scooby are limited. So in certain grades, there are a few bronze books that I would prefer to own.

I should mention that I don't think this will apply to the variants though, because they are the perfect way to satisfy the demands of different types of collectors. You can collect books that are more difficult to obtain, but also feature Marvel's most popular characters in many cases. The best of both collecting worlds.

Rarity is such an important factor for the Bronze keys because all the major first appearances have always been so plentiful. I do think blazincomics made an interesting point the other day though when he predicted that some of the popular books were destined to surpass the books that have traditionally been in the top 10. In my early Atari 2600 years, Marvel Comics #1 was worth more than Detective Comics #27, and FF #1 was more valuable than AF #15. A decade from now, my crystal ball tells me that the BA top 10 will be a better reflection of what the fanboys are wearing on their pajamas than it is now. First appearances of popular characters, specifically, will begin to supplant harder to find books with more of a niche interest.

I really wish that I had been online this morning. Probably would have needed to start a new thread reminiscing about my many hours spent playing the original Castle Wolfenstein, and Beyond Castle Wolfenstein(where you actually blew up Hitler Inglorious Basterds style) on my Apple II+. There's a fair chance I would have doubled my post count in a day on that one.

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately. So would I Your signature pic is hilarious. Makes me think of Valentine's Day. I suppose that I should clarify and say that it was the heart shape that made me think of Valentine's Day. Wouldn't want to imply that my February 14ths were that successful.

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately. So would I Your signature pic is hilarious. Makes me think of Valentine's Day.

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion. I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.