Roger66

I am a VERY happy Buyer. Great communication, super easy to deal with and what a bomber packing job - I got the book lightning fast. Also a very cool guy to talk comics with. Thank you! Roger

I have seen horror shows but this is the George Romero of shipping. I am so sorry. If it's any consolation at least it wasn't a seriously expensive comic. Hopefully you get insurance to cover this.

start a fresh one

Perhaps this book

Interior shots of both covers is key to gauging the grade. Any interior tanning even light will be considered a deficit. Looking at the photos alone that you present my best guess is a 6.5 to 7.0. my 2 cents

Regardless of the final CGC grade call this book deserves a premium for its' dynamic front cover appearance - it has the dark colors with the desirable white background - also the preferable dark green boxes (as opposed to the light green variant more commonly seen). I have seen 7.0s that don't present as nice as this raw copy. As far as a grade call - overall it has solid structure, looks tight and has a clean appearance. Looking at the set of accumulative defects, none of which jumps out at you - I see this as a solid lean into 4.5 but with a press a likely 5.0. Again don't get hung up on the grade - look at how it presents. The reason why there is often such a wide price range or compression on book prices that sell with some frequency where a 4.0 sells for as much as a 5.5 for some keys - is simply because the winner at auction wanted a beautiful looking copy and didn't care about the technical grade. You lose sight of the beauty of owning a comic when you get hyper-focused on the grade call. Like people who get all hung up on owning white pages vs ow/white page - yes its' preference but in the end I find the presentation of a book is often the main selling point down the road not what some anonymous professional graders had printed on the blue label. My 2 cents.

Take ASM 50 per PM..

If you sold your collection with major keys prior to the RISE you expect a crash in a year or longer - it is almost a bitter cynical-tinged regretful hopefulness If you hoarded solid keys and held on to them through the years you honestly do expect maybe a minor to moderate plateau but not a crash - at least not pre-1975 keys, which are always a bit scarcer and more desirable than post 1975 keys.... If you collect late bronze, more so copper & modern keys (esp. variants) and have been paying today's exorbitant prices - I predict pain in your future if you don't unload them sooner than later - those books are so so commonplace if not boring - that their collapse is only a matter of the market waking up and realizing how over-priced and over-inflated these incredibly common keys are - the prices now paid on these books speaks of the death of intuition, where many collectors live in an echo-chamber rooting each other on, cheering final auction prices from the safety of the sidelines, creating online videos that speak like fact based market predictions but are nothing more than self-motivated propaganda - all giving each other a HUGE FAT thumbs up - all the while deathly aware in their deep subconscious minds that this is terribly wrong and truly a fools' paradise. - my 2 cents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

In the Olympics the difference between a gold medal and no medal is often scant seconds and in the collectible market those whom we tacitly authorize to judge criteria (i.e. CGC) create the framework from which we the public assign value to the assigned grades - some blindingly so without questioning. What's not to understand here? Perhaps you need to question the system and not the bidders, who most clearly subscribe to the rules of the game. Indeed by your very same logic one can question why someone pays 5k for say a 9.4 of a key but only $500 for a beautiful looking 6.5, when the difference might be something as innocuous as back cover staining and an interior issue on the 6.5. Straddling the fence and questioning why someone is willing to pay 11k+ for a 9.9 when you yourself might not value it more than say a 9.8 but would pay a chunk more for a 9.4 over a very similar looking 6.5 key is indeed your prerogative and your parameters but fortunately or unfortunately not those of the guy who won this book. my 2 cents

Just because a small but growing minority of collectors with very deep pockets can drop a huge sum of money on a comic-key you might personally value at say 1/3 the final hammer price - does not in any reflect the true value of said book. Comics are inherently valuable because we choose to place that value on them. As more and more rich buyers enter the market place with no real history or understanding of the past - we can expect seemingly outrageous prices - not to mention market manipulation and shill bidding on eBay. As far as stating why someone spent 10k on a very common 1980 Bronze Age key in 9.8 when they could've spent that towards a low grade blue chip grail Silver Ager, that is your preference not theirs. A $1,000.00 to one guy feels like a $100 to another guy and $10 to another guy. In the end getting caught up in or sucked into the apparently shocking final hammer prices is buying into them and joining an echo chamber of sorts, wherein you quote the prices online, make eye-rolling comments in threads like this, maybe even post a YouTube video about it and in the end you become part of the market cycle of perpetuating prices and pushing prices up with no real understanding of valuation. Personally my most fruitful buying was done in my own vacuum of sorts - I never asked for advice, I never knew of GPA - let alone how to find final sale prices on eBay and I bought out of love and instinct and it was glorious. For those out there looking at high sale price points as the true valuation of many books by constantly checking GPA etc - I say those buyers beware because then you give up your ability to distinguish truth from possible fiction by depending and waiting on a few to dictate the value to the many. My 2 cents.

If the front cover presents well - I would consider grading it with CGC thus entombing it for posterity. If not bag and board it appropriately and place in a hard plastic top loader for added protection

Take Avengers 6

If someone is seeking comic collecting advice from FB or even IG - you are already likely lost. I would as soon as quote them as I would a "Flat-Earther."

I would also add - a lack of true desire - a big pinch of laziness - a splash of 'not a priority now' the market 99% makes the man - rarely the other way around

My question to anyone and everyone in your shoes or predicament is why did you wait this long to buy the books / keys you desire when you could have bought them for potentially 25 to 60% less only 6 to 12 months ago? I think the feeling of defeat is mixed in with the feeling of regret and a sense of being "very late to the party." Rationality and economics dictates one values something at a certain price and your desire makes you pay that price. Why is the desire more now than it was 6 plus months ago for the same books? Perhaps the answer to that question might have less to do with "feeling defeated" as it does with "regret." my 2 cents.

I personally would consider using all that money you might pay for all these incredibly common books and buying one solid cool key. I also have found (in my long experience) if you are asking the public for advice on whether something is 'worth it' it could mean you need to do more due diligence and homework on your own to learn the hobby. Regarding the books you just showed me - I wouldn't pay 1/2 that price if offered to me but I am nobody to you. my 2 cents.

IF a year or 3 from now prices drop like a rock in a pond to where they were a year ago now - you will have perhaps one answer. Prices don't 'explode' as much as a small group of investors ignore past sales and bid each other up - then the mob takes note of that sale - and everyone seemingly jumps in on the feeding frenzy as speculation, greed and flipping run rampant. 'IF a tree falls in a forest and there's nobody around to hear, does it make a sound?' applies here. IF a key comic sells for an insane price and there's nobody else who gives a damn, does that high price make a difference? or as a wise man once said "It is the job of the market to turn the base material of emotions into gold." - my 2-cents

It really is not a debate - a cameo vs a full appearance - a forgetful cover vs a fantastic classic cover - a very short history of increased value vs a long dedicated history of rising value - is how I compare issue #180 to issue #181. As the expression goes "high tides raise all boats." What we are seeing across the boards (no pun) is secondary and tertiary keys getting more of a spotlight as every collector looks for today's bargains for tomorrow's flips. Except in super high grades, Hulk #180 should remain relegated as it is "a cameo." And as noted by others in this thread, with the ever increasing costs of owning great keys - collectors understandably want their fix and thus look elsewhere at cheaper alternatives. Personally I refuse to get sucked up into the mob-mania that permeates these days. I stand firm in my conviction that historically Hulk 181 is the standout must-own Bronze Age key with Hulk #180 not cracking the top 50 to 75 of important Bronze Age keys. What we are witnessing now is a tiny snippet of time compared to the entirety of this hobby and for some to put so much money into some of these suddenly hyped up minor keys is risky to say the least. And don't get me started on Star Wars keys or variants My 2-cents.

The real question I have for you is how much money are you prepared to drop today? If you told me you had 50k disposable income and you don't mind buying SA keys and holding them for awhile (perhaps a couple of years at least if not longer) - I might steer you into a mid-grade X-MEN1 and mid-grade TOS39 and with your approx 5k change I would buy whatever nice looking lower grade Hulk 181 (blue label) you can afford. If you told me you had 5 to 10k - I don't think you are going to make much of a dent in the SA keys these days and thus will not be happy. As you should know you are buying during a very hot streak (not the smartest time to buy IMO ). Golden Age has many choices - so you have to know your GA niche and maybe stay devoted to it while working within a budget (assuming you have one). Seeking advice on this publicly like you have indicates you might have to sit back and observe for awhile before diving in. All in all - I would not recommend anyone getting into SA keys now because you are paying premium prices. A lot of collectors jumping in very late now are trying to make up for lost time / missed opportunities and I think that unwise. My 2 cents.

I disagree. Everyone is pan-handling in the same narrow river. There are no surprises or nuggets to be found any longer. Your above sage picks are an example. Everyone knows or should know of them by now. I would avoid collecting SA keys as a rookie now unless you have a ton of disposable income. Unless you want to drop 35k and own every important SA key in say a point 5 or 1.5 range - go ahead - but truth be told - if and when the market adjusts - it will be those ragged often incomplete looking over-priced low grade keys that take the first big head on impact. Jumping on a bandwagon is just that.. you are bound to fall off from all the company next you. When I read a lot of these online comments I don't sense joy or happiness but regret, frustration and annoyance with how much it costs to get back into this hobby. I feel the great joy ride in this hobby is over for the average collector who loves buying the cream of the crop type books. What I see now on IG for example are big spenders posting their latest acquisitions (alongside the latest auction results) and showing off their wares - pumping up the volume - so as to keep this insane rave party going on and on and on and on. My 2 cents.

For those of you who haven't guessed or intuitively figured out by now, there is a lot of new money being parked in the collectible market. Covid19 factors including rich folk not spending money on travel, fine wines, expensive dinners, clothing etc - are looking to park their money in collectibles. What we are experiencing feels unprecedented for sure. It is very easy if not simple to sit on the sidelines and call this a bubble ready to burst as opposed to continuing to collect and enjoy your comics. Only time will tell where this hobby will be in a year or more - only time and not peanut gallery predictions. My 2 cents is I am sitting with what I have collected and doubtfully buying any books at today's prices. My cautionary advice for anyone starting off in this hobby as a SA collector of keys or those trying to claw back their long gone Silver Age Marvel Keys - is don't right now - move on and watch - the train has left the station and may or may not one day return. Here is an excellent recent article in the NY Times that illuminates this further. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/style/spending-rich-people.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage

Pedigree vs Non-Pedigree. I have seen enough non-pedigree books, which look as good as a corresponding designated Pedigree. I would not pay a premium-bump in price if I can own the same looking book in the same grade with the same PQ for less money. Many collectors had and still have exceptional looking raw copies of Golden Age books but will never ask for (let alone receive) a Pedigree status upon submission. While it can be nice to see that tiny print (Pedigree) on the label and feel a swell of pride - I am not spending more for such a copy when I can get my fix with a similar non-pedigree status. my 2-cents.

That will have to be one hell'of'a'crash for prices to come down that low. And if so perhaps most will be too busy buying week old bread and questionable cold cuts to bother with the complete inanity of buying comics.

Your succinct take on why you collect is likely a common one these days. For many collectors it doesn't matter about 'the films, appreciating assets or interest rates" since they are emotionally invested. So it will indeed be very interesting to see what happens to this hobby once the films either stop or go bad and the economics of investing money into comics is no longer a viable alternative for those inclined to see this hobby only as an investment vehicle.