MagicMasonry-migration

Anyone have a link/list of what's considered the rarest variant titles? Top 30 or so? edit/ just skimmed through most of this thread and finally found this... bronze marvel variant blog Fantastic blog!

Thanks. To clarify though, it was an OBO listing, not a BIN. I never expected anyone to pay 200k, that was just to put it at the top of search results and draw attention to my store, which has been doing extremely well btw. Now it's gonna be all up to buyer demand

Thanks! I'm definitely excited as well! A lot has happened since the last copy sold 2 years ago. Afterlife with Archie in 2013 has been huge and to top it off, they just killed Archie, kind of a big deal. Probably the two biggest things to happen to Archie comics in decades. The OSPG just gave Pep 22 the biggest percentage increase for a Golden Age title this year despite 0 copies being sold (as far as I'm aware, got anything on that G.A.tor?). 25% on the high end and 40% on lower grades. Granted the guide is largely irrelevant in terms of actual market value, as I would hope since I expect the book to go for way above guide, but it's been receiving these increases for 6 years straight and shows no sign of slowing. It's now above More Fun 52 on the OSPG "tier list" and I'll bet dollars to donuts it goes above Flash Comics 1 next year, maybe even above Detective 31. IMO it's only behind Action 1, Tec 27 and maybe Marvel 1. If in 10 years it's still as rare as it is now in relation to the other titles, then I think it's easily #3 or #4. It will certainly be an interesting auction none the less. Hopefully Pep 23 gets the respect it deserves finally. Archie 2 and Jackpot 4 have been getting insane prices for even very low grades, and they aren't nearly as hard to come by at auction or as significant imho, especially Archie 2. J4 with the first minor cover appearance is sweet, but having the first teenage issue to me is far more significant, I feel it could even serve as an alternate 1st appearance for those who can't quite afford a Pep 22, kinda like when a superhero appears for the 1st time "in costume".

Thanks Surgeon Btw, if you look in the new OSPG next to Pep 23 they specified "on sale 11/41". A little more detail like "2nd appearance of Archie" would have been nice, but I guess it's a start. Since Jackpot 4 says "on sale 12/41" people can at least figure it out now. But it still bugs the heck out of me that they have Archie 1, 2, and 3 listed as "scarce", but not Pep 22 or 23 which are, you know, only about 3 TIMES more scarce.

Move over J4, the updated label is in!

Got the new label on it! Here it is!

Has anyone explained how to ship lots, say in increments of 50, 100, 250, or even a 1000 comics or more in this thread? If so, you should probably add it to the opening post. If not, let's see what we come up with here and then maybe add it? I currently have 100 long boxes I'm going through and am curious how people ship their runs safely and in the most cost effective way. I see sellers on ebay charging like 7 bucks to ship 50 books and it boggles my mind. It costs me 9 dollars to ship 4-9 comics to Cali (I'm from CT). Granted I pack my comics in a box properly. Still I see people shipping huge lots on ebay, like 100 books for 10-15 dollars shipping and can't figure it out. Are they getting away with media mail or something? p.s. Don't know if anyone has said this, but the best secret out there for (basically) free cardboard...Costco. If you have a membership (55$), just go in, grab a flatbed, walk around the foods aisles and grab slip sheets. They're everywhere. Usually between the pallets of items. Or if a product is running low on the top layer, just grab the slip sheet underneath it, shouldn't be hard. No one will say a word to you. I work there, and of course I get TONS of it, but customers come in all the time, buy nothing and just take cardboard.

That doesn't seem relevant since all copies are now recognized as the 2nd. Mine will just be the first at auction with the new label.

I don't know if it will be in the 2014 guide or 2015. From the sound of it, it might be the 2014. We'll see soon enough. I'm definitely getting my label updated as the current label is an eyesore in my opinion. I don't care about the 100 bucks it'll cost to ship it back and forth. I think it's cool that it will be the 1st copy officially recognized as the 2nd appearance at auction.

Here is the update from CGC... "We are going with: Pep 23- On the stands before Jackpot #4 2nd appearance of Archie. Statue of Liberty cover. Jackpot 4- First appearance Mrs Grundy. First Archie cover appearance. Archie begins." Also, I received word from Bob Overstreet that there will be a note in the new guide stating that "Pep 23 was on stands 1 month before Jackpot 4". Good work to everyone who contributed to preserving the historicity of these important books.

Yeah, if mine only said "Statue of Liberty Cover" I probably wouldn't have even thought anything of it(and maybe that's why no one has since they only recently labeled 23 incorrectly, and obviously none of the J4 owners were gonna complain!), but the fact that my copy is already consigned and is mislabeled is very frustrating. When you give a company thousands of dollars to grade your books you just expect them to come back labeled properly, particularly when it comes to major titles worth thousands. My books will be in the August event auction at Comicconnect. It's a fairly Archie-centric auction with my Peps, a full run of Archie's, another Pep 22(8.0 EP resto), Archie 1 (7.0 MP resto), Archie 1 NG, and a bunch of other early Peps and Archie's. I'll resubmit my 23 as soon as I get official word from CGC. Hopefully sometime soon, not sure what more needs to be determined.

Okay, I just got word that they are leaning towards making the changes, but it won't make a notation in the next Price Guide as it's too late. I pretty much figured that, but like lou pointed out, technically Overstreet doesn't need to change anything, although a distinctive designation would be appreciated in the future. Now just to wait and see if CGC has made a final determination. Also, what do people think the notes should say exactly? Aside from the obvious "2nd appearance of Archie, Betty, and Jughead" and "Statue of Liberty Cover", I feel there should be a nod to the fact that it's the 1st time they are depicted as bonafide teenagers. It should be significant given the success of the franchise was because teens resonated with the gang being depicted as teenagers, not little kids. Granted, I'm sure it was probably intentional to debut them as younger in the first issue as a sort of lead-up/intro, but I dunno. Either way, the difference in Betty is unmistakable.

It's funny. They're not explicitly noting Jackpot 4 as the 2nd appearance, but as far as I know, every copy they've graded says "Same month as Pep 22", which is of course implicitly incorrect since it's implying that it came out the same month, which it didn't. So while it's not an explicitly incorrect statement, it's definitely deceptive and should have no bearing as it signifies nothing. And although they've never labeled any book as the "2nd appearance", at some point in the last 2 or 3 years, someone at CGC saw fit to change the notes on Pep 23 to "3rd appearance of Archie". Now, aside from being incorrect, what bothers me is that someone recently made this change without consulting Overstreet, anyone on here, or doing any kind of research. But now that it has been brought to their attention they suddenly have to run it by Overstreet before they make a change.

Minor update. Apparently we're still just waiting on Bob and Jeff at Overstreet. They're of course busy with the new guide coming out. Hopefully they squeeze in a more detailed clarification into the new guide from all this. 'Cause not for nothing, but I'm going through the guide and I can't find a single instance where they specifically state the 'on sale' date for any other quarterly title. So why did they specify J4? You would think it was so people could distinguish what appearance it was since it was an early appearance that intermingled with another title. But why go to the trouble of noting the 'on sale' date and then not designate the exact appearance? Pretty strange when you consider the guide will list the 3rd, 4th and even 5th appearances of less significant characters like Enemy Ace or S.A. Spectre, but it won't designate a definitive 2nd appearance to one of the most important characters of all time, especially when it's not explicitly clear.

The current guide does not say it, and that's the only copy I have on me now. I'm actually not sure which issue started saying it, but all CGC'd copies of J4 that I've seen say "same month as Pep 22" and I'm fairly sure they got that from OS like Shield said in the opening post. Maybe we're both wrong though and it wasn't OS and it was just CGC that decided to note it. But I thought I could swear I remember seeing it in the OS guide at some point, anyone have older copies they can check? edit/You know, now I'm thinking my memory is playing tricks on me. Maybe it was just CGC, like if they saw J4 say "(on sale 12/41-also see Pep comics 22)", then when they go to Pep 22 it says "12/41(also see Jackpot)". Which is how someone at CGC could have mixed up the on sale date of J4 with the indicia date of Pep 22 and drawing the inaccurate conclusion that they we're "same month". All apologies to OS if this turns out to be the case!

Basically this whole mess of confusion stems from whoever decided to add that notation of "same month as Pep 22". Like yeah, the month of December is the same month shown on the cover of Pep 22. It might as well say, "same color as Pep 22".

No worries. This is relatively 'big' news and I'm sure they'll want to get it right. Haspel in particular is what I'd call a GA knowledge buff and I'd be surprised if he'd heard about it but wasn't interested in getting to the bottom of it. Keep us posted! Roy; Not sure why this would be big news? I just pulled out an old Overstreet from the mid 90's and it clearly states that Jackpot #4 was on sale in December 1941. Since comic books have always been distributed with cover dates 2 months in advance, it already clearly implies that Pep #22 with a cover date of December '41 must have been on sale in October of 1941 and Pep #23 with a cover date of January '42 must have been on sale in November of 1941. Not sure why CGC would have to verify this with the folks at Gemstone since this has already been in the guide for the past couple of decades if not longer. They are correct in stating that pencilled in arrival dates are not definitive indicators. Especially since distribution to the newsstand were based upon the schedules of the local distributors and most likely not consistent across the country. The guide states that J4 was "on sale" Dec '41. But they are incorrect in saying "same month as Pep 22." This is because the "on sale" date for Pep 22 is Oct as you pointed out. J4 however does not have a cover date of Dec. Instead it has a cover date of "Winter". This is why it was "on sale" in Dec. Likewise, Jackpot 5 is the 2nd appearance of Veronica (with a cover date Spring) and was on sale in March, one month after Pep 26 (1st Veronica, cover date April) which was of course on sale in February. So if anyone thinks J4 would have been on sale in October, then that would put J5 on sale in January making it the 1st Veronica, which is of course absurd. And it's no mere coincidence that there no copies of J4 with arrival dates of Oct, or even Nov. for that matter. Yet, incidentally there are NUMEROUS random copies of all these titles mentioned with arrival dates that do support what I, Shield, and others have been saying.

Hey Paul and everyone, another thing to consider, and I can't believe I totally forgot to point out. In the last panel of Pep 22 it says "There's another barrel of fun awaiting Archie and his pal Jughead in the next issue of Pep comics!" It makes no mention of Jackpot. If both magazines were using last panels to promote one another, and this 1st issue only mentions the next Pep comic, I think it's clear that Pep 23 was the next comic to be released. If Jackpot 4 was to be next then Pep 22 would have mentioned to look out for it, but it doesn't. It is from this that it seems clear that the statement in the final panels was always being used to promote the NEXT issue. Hence Pep 23 AND Pep 24 (which both have copyright dates before Jackpot 4) promote Jackpot 4, calling it the NEW issue. Although it says "on sale now", I'm pretty sure they knew they were jumping the gun promoting it with Pep 23 on stands in November, which is fine since Pep 23 was expected to be on stands into January and could still be of use to promote J4 in December and January. Worst case scenario you have readers looking for a comic that isn't coming out for another month and they're all ready to buy it when it does. And maybe they pick up Jackpot 3 for the heck of it in the mean time. Same with Pep 24, which of course was only a few days early. Meanwhile Jackpot 4 says to "check out Pep comics every month" which is of course a general statement since Jackpot would be on sale all winter long during which 3 more issues of Pep would be coming out, so it didn't specify a particular Pep issue to check out.

Glad to hear it Paul. I (and I'm sure all of us) appreciate you taking the time to look into this matter to help preserve the historicity of these significant titles. As to the arrival dates being in pencil, I agree. I wouldn't even consider them as evidence if it was only one or two, but with 7 or 8 books accounted for in this thread alone by reputable members, I feel it poses a strong argument. Granted, the photos in the OP are no longer available, I think it's very safe to say they were once there and were verified. I look forward to hearing from you next week.

It also says that same message at the end of Pep 24 which also has an LoC copyright earlier than Jackpot 4. I would also point out that at the last panel in Jackpot 4 it says to check out Archie "every month in Pep comics!"(if only one issue had been created at the time this would be a strange statement, no?) It appears that the creators and publishers were aware of both magazines releasing issues around the same time, so why not promote Archie in both mags, free advertising! They knew Jackpot would be on shelves throughout the winter, and that releasing Peps 2 months before their cover dates retailers would keep them on shelves longer. The nail in the coffin on this issue to me though is Veronica appearing in Jackpot 5 exactly 3 months after Jackpot 4 in March. Pep 26 (exactly 3 months after Pep 23) is Veronica's undisputed 1st appearance and has a cover date of April. This proves beyond any doubt that the monthly Pep issues were released 2 months early, and the Quarterly Jackpot Comics were being released at the beginning of their respective seasons. That, coupled with this thread providing arrival dates on all these books confirming exactly this point should be more than sufficient.

Okay guys, I just spoke with Paul Litch at CGC and he was far more receptive and willing to listen. He says he's seen the thread and that he will speak with Mark Haspel when he's available and they will discuss the making of any changes and that I should email him next week to find out what happens. I'll give the update next week. edit/Thanks Roy for the advice.

Yeah, speaking to the CGC is like pulling teeth. The guy on the phone wasn't the least bit interested in what I had to say. Hey Shield, do you still have the pictures that were in the opening post? Maybe I can send them in along with my submission. Or does anyone else have any photos of arrival dates for verification that I could use?

So I just spoke with CGC and they are under the impression that Jackpot 4 came out a week earlier than Pep 23 based on the indicia dates. I told them well, in that case you better change Jackpot 5 to the 1st appearance of Veronica because Pep 26 has an indicia date of April and Jackpot 5 came out in March. They didn't want to hear that. The guy on the phone just brushed me off. Apparently both logic and empirical evidence are irrelevant to the CGC. They said I could submit my book again with my notes and they would research it again but for now they are not budging on their stance on the book. Any ideas?

Yeah, my dad thought he was gonna be in deep doodoo, but the supervisor was apparently amused and kept walking. Ya know, in retrospect, that was actually a lot of money at the time for a VG+, especially from a completely unknown seller. This was at the infancy of the internet and there was little to no info on the book. Really quite a gamble. Which of course worked out favorably

Here you go David. I only have Pep 22 and 23. I read all those other books off the online database. These are my father's books. He won them off eBay back around '95 when eBay had just come out. He was at work when the auctions were ending and was using his work computer. Right when he won the Pep 22 his supervisor walked by and says "You just spent 2 grand on a comic book?!?" I can't get my own file attachments to upload and the only online examples I have are thumbnail size. How can I upload larger images?