Chillax23

I am more concerned about Bronze Age books like GSXM1 popping like they have versus X-Men 1 ........ just based on the abundance of Bronze Age graded books like GSXM1, but perhaps the demand is there and valid ..... who knows, it is quite interesting.

Good luck with the sale - and nice books!

3 hours ago, Pantodude said:

There appear to be many gems in DC that are relative bargains right now, as posted above.  Regardless, whatever can be said about DC's other stuff in general, it seems really short-sighted to lump SC4, BB28 and Flash123 into that mix.   Even as a mainly Marvel guy, it seems obvious to me that SC4, BB28 and Flash 123 should not need a catalyst.  They are holy grails for all SA fans, including Marvel fans.  SC4 (1st Flash in SA) started the whole SA, for crying out loud, and Flash is super important to the entire DC universe.  All you X-Men, Avengers, FF, and Justice League fans out there, BB28 kicked off the team concept for the entire SA.  And Flash123 introduced the multi-verse to comic books!   The multi-verse has been very important to both DC and Marvel for how many decades now?  And it is clear that the multi-verse will be taking center stage going forward for both Marvel and Disney.  These three DC books are pricey, but then again, they are arguably the most important SA books (regardless of publisher), with obvious impact on SA's development even 60 years later and with no end in sight.   Just writing this warms my heart to DC.  I for one look forward to exploring DC keys.  

Those big 3 aren't common, but I was surprised to learn that they are scarcer than all the early Marvel SA keys, with the sole exception of TTA27.  BB28 and Flash 123 only have like a thousand universal in the census, and SC4 only 363!   I didn't know it was THAT low.  

This is very true - there are some really important DC Keys that are really overlooked and their relative scarcity make Marvel keys look abundant.  Plus there are just some awesome books - in addition to those mentioned above like: Showcase 22, Green Lantern 7, Action 242 and 252, Superboy 68, Adventure Comics 247, Flash 105, MGA 80, Batman 121 and 181, Tec 359 - the list can go on and on.  So while not rising as fast as Marvel keys - I also see their value as more secure given it is not speculation based and there is a much smaller supply (in most cases).

I collect both DC (Superman and Batman) and Marvel (X-Men and Iron Man) - so Marvel keys going nuts right now, I am focusing on DC - not that I won't grab a great Marvel Key if a good opportunity presents itself  

to the OP - the answer to your question will also depend on whether you are using disposable income that you do not need and whether you are buying books that you will be happy to own and not need to sell.  If you are buying books for your personal collection with no view to a profit then the rising prices are less of a concern (especially if just with disposable income). 

That being said, if you are buying books for growth potential and/or short term holds (i.e., these will not be in your personal collection for several years) then it gets harder -a s the current market is crazy right now.  I haven't seen price increases like these in terms of volume or in terms of reach (as it appears sports cards, comics and other collectibles) are experiencing rapid growth across the board.  That is not to say it is a bubble or isn't sustainable - just that it is a bit uncharted.

That being said - DC keys are not going as crazy right now and I have managed to squeak out fair deals on a low grade copies of BB28 and Action 242 (both books I have wanted to own for quite some time) from fellow boardies.  So there are still opportunities for fair deals that aren't outdated price wise the next day

Is this first Gladiator as well?  Weird it is not on the label.

Congrats on the sales! Wish I had seen these in time  

33 minutes ago, october said:

I think it's odd that people are twisting themselves into pretzel logic and trying to rewrite 50+ years of backissue history because in the last six months speculators have chosen X-Men 1 as the book dejour to run up to the moon. 

The 80s was 30-40 years ago. Where were all these rabid X-Men 1 fans just three years ago when prices were a fraction of what they are now? Did they just wake up, en masse, and say "hey, those comics I read 25 years ago and the cartoon I watched when I was 12 were awesome"? This is movie speculation run amok, pure and simple. Movie speculation doesn't make one comic more significant than the other, it just makes the market for one more irrational. 

X-Men #1 was the first big Key I bought 8 years ago when I got back into collecting and discovered the whole CGC thing.  It was a book I always dreamed of owning and was so happy when I did.  I always wanted it much more than any other Silver Age Key and when I sold my entire collection a few years later for a house purchase it was the lone book I kept (don't feel bad I have rebuilt the collection since then ).

I also don't think saying GSXM1 should be THE key for a 80's X-Men fan is correct - as I think that the GSXM1 team and those stories were largely shaped by Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, and Xavier (think of the run from 94 to 142 and how integral Jean and Cyclops and then all of the 90s stuff was Magento focused throughout).  All that is to say, GSXM1 is a monster book but not as important as X-Men #1 (but Magneto is one of my favorite comic characters - so I admit my bias here )  

5 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

There is a lot of truth to this. 

My position, as a collector, will always be IH1 >X1.  IH1 was a book I plotted and planned for. Sold books and saved $$ to get. It was a big deal. 

But as a comic fan, X-Men were a much bigger part of my childhood.  That was why I commented earlier about younger collectors caring more about X-Men than Hulk.  That's what my generation grew up with. That's what we talked about at school and remembered (I'm 38 for reference).  

For the record, I agree with everyone @Pantodude said. He's 100% right.  IH1 is a much more important book. JIM83 and TOS39 are all books I enjoy and prioritized above X1. 

But I also understand why we are seeing the momentum. It's not just speculation $$, it's the fact that for decades X-Men have had better written stories combined with more compelling characters. 

 

Interesting - and I also grew up with the X-Men being the main draw (and am also 38).

Why do you say that IH1 is and always will be the more important book - is it based on it being first and therefore having more impact on Marvel's history and evolution?  Would you also put FF1 ahead of AF15 and Marvel Comics 1 ahead of Cap 1?

12 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

I hear you Chillax23, all good points.  But your comments about AF15 suggest you are missing the point regarding what I said about X-Men #1 relative to IH1.  I was referring to "relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots".   FF1 is more important than AF15 in that respect, tor the same reasons that FF1 and IH1 and JIM83 will forever be more important than X-Men #1 to Marvel's comic book roots.   Popularity changes over time, and depends on catalysts more often than not.  But history cannot be (or at least should not be) rewritten.  Any book could become the flavor of the day, although to be fair any of the books we are talking could be the flavors of the century.  That is all I am saying.  

I understand your point - and I don't necessarily disagree with it - but I also don't agree with it either

I think many would argue that AF15 is more important to Marvel than FF1 and even more important to Marvel's History - and I am guessing that group gives weight to FF1 being first, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.  IT is the same debate for Marvel Comics #1 vs Cap #1.

I can see both sides of the argument - and not really sure where i land on it - but I wouldn't outright dismiss X-Men 1 being viewed as more important than Hulk 1.

7 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

SOMEONE must nip this crazy talk in the bud, so here goes.  

Seems silly to attempt to rewrite history based on spec activity.  Certain books are making more gains for spec purposes right now, but that does not make the book suddenly more important to Marvel than IH#1 or the other earlier SA books, which are currently higher on the Marvel podium.   The early "Marvel Age" intros (the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Thor, Spidey) have always been special compared to Marvel's subsequent 1st appearances, and for very good reasons having nothing to do with spec.  In the case of  X-Men #1, we have Disney's recent acquisition of X-Men rights and the buzz of potential movies.  But up until very recently, there was never any question that IH1 (and FF1, JIM83, AF15, and even ASM1--despite being a 1963 book too) is the more significant book to Marvel.  

Let's take an extreme hypothetical to make this point clear.  Let's assume X-Men #1 goes ballistic nonstop for a decade and overtakes FF#1 (another team-up book) on a per point basis.  NO ONE in their right mind would ever say that X-Men #1 (the book) is more significant to Marvel (and thus Marvel collectors) than FF#1 (the book).  The Marvel Universe was born with FF#1, arguably the most important Silver Age Marvel comic book ever published, even more so than AF15.  And IH1, JIM83, etc also helped put Marvel on the map in 1962.  All those books, especially FF#1 as the first Marvel team-up ever, paved the way for X-Men #1 in 1963.  So X-Men #1, like Avengers #1, can never overtake that special group of 1962 early Marvels in terms of importance to Marvel, no matter how important it becomes to our individual pocket books due to spec.  Full disclosure, I own X-Men #1 and of course wish it the best on a per point basis going forward.  But I remain rational about it's relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....  

It is a fair point - and I agree that certain books helped pave the way for Marvel early (FF1 etc.).  That being said, while Hulk 1 is a big key, and a very recognizable character - for the last 30-40 years the X-Men have been far more popular to the average reader than the Hulk has. The bronze age set the X-Men on fire and their run/popularity has continued since then.  So while the Hulk may be first and more popular in the 60s and 70s - for the majority of the life of Marvel the X-Men have been more significant IMO.  So there is a strong argument that when characters are more popular and more integral to Marvel for say 2/3's of Marvel's existence that those characters are ultimately more important.

Its the same argument as to why AF15 is more important than FF1 - sure FF1 started everything - but Spider-Man is by far the most important Marvel Character and has been for decades.

That being said I am not sure where I land on a top 3 or top 5 etc. - but I wouldn't necessarily object to people saying X-Men 1 is the third most important Marvel book (AF15 -FF1 - XM1).  However, Hulk 1 is a great book and I would LOVE to own one and I do expect it will have a run up soon based on its importance but also its relative scarcity.

Thoughts on whether the Zack Snyder Justice League release in March may renew some interest in this undervalued key?

55 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Just picked up a 5.5 recently. Didn't realize how popular the book was, just saw an opportunity. I don't know how many will agree with me, but Magneto is my favorite first appearance in the book. Also something very few will agree with I enjoyed X-Men Apocalypse 

Magneto is easily my favourite appearance in the book - such a great character. 

Here is my new copy - downgraded from a 4.0 to the 2.5 below and just got it back from reholdering (needed to get it into the new slab): 

Sorry for the bad pic - but it’s a good looking 2.5 in hand (the colours are quite nice - but it is the lighter green “variant” hahahahaha). 

55 minutes ago, Batmanis#1 said:

The X-Men the only team I never got bored of. Great story line and characters. Magneto one of the coolest villains of all-time. I enjoyed every movie they made and I am looking forward to new cartoons and movies. Maybe even a cool video game would be nice even for this old man.

Pizza + Ice-T + X-men = awesome evening!!!

Agreed - and I feel like the best part of X-Men #1 is that you get the team and concept of the X-Men PLUS Magneto.  I will admit my bias and state that Magneto is a top five comic character of all time for me - just a really complex villain turned anti-hero, turned villain, turned hero. #Magnetowasright

I am also looking forward to the MCU version of the X-Men - I felt Fox really nailed it with First Class and Logan then it fell apart a bit - so excited to have the rights in the hands of Disney/MCU.

I think this book still has room to grow - even though I downgraded my copy from a 4.0 to a 2.5 recently  

Depends what you think a big key is ..... it will likely follow the lead of Cap 100 and Iron Man 1 - raise in price up to a movie appearance and then drop down.

I think it will settle around where Cap 100 is and be cheaper than Iron Man 1 and certainly cheaper than Silver Surfer 1 (which will be the most expensive of the 1968 books IMO).

Even if it settles to Cap 100 pricing it is still overpriced IMO (but I have zero interest in the character/book so perhaps I am being too harsh). 

Bump

On 1/29/2021 at 7:23 PM, PKJ said:

Biased...Obviously since you used a F4 villain to compare Magneto.....  But if F4 is behind X-Men their villains should not count either, I am kidding as I feel like this has been argued through the halls of every con there has been. 

I agree X-Men are due, I only mention supply based on how many shows I have been to that had multiple X1 available on day one and last day of a show versus 1 or 2 dealers with FF1. That and I guess I now hate it will cost 10K for a nice X1 that was 5K last year.

 

Hahahaha ....... my point was more Doom and Magneto are fairly equal in terms of popularity. The X-Men are far more popular than FF and in X-Men 1 you also get Magneto who is at least the #2 villain in the Marvel Universe.

The only thing holding down pricing on X-Men 1 is its relative abundance but I would think demand far outweighs supply especially when they enter the MCU.  So no reason it can’t be up there dollar wise with The big boys AF15, IH1 and FF1 - especially if you consider the X-Men are likely more popular than 2 of those 3. 

41 minutes ago, PKJ said:

Agree, FF1 is also from an era when people still were not keeping comics. Having grown up in the 80's (Born in 73) X Men were way cooler than FF but I personally put the original XMen in the same category as the Fantastic Four. To me Giant Size X Men 1 was the true first appearances of the XMen I loved so the original Xmen were like a bygone team to me. That being said as I got older I grew more like to the Fantastic Four mainly due to heritage and as I read some of the stories, found them better than Wolverine going nuts every few issues of Xmen. 

But don't forget X-Men 1 also has the first appearance of Magneto - arguably a villain to rival Doom.  So in X-Men #1 you get the original team and concept and a top two Marvel Villain (or maybe anti-hero if you believe "Magneto was Right" ).  So to me X-Men #1 easily deserves to be in the same breath as the other top Marvel Silver Age keys (except AF15 which is a cut above) - but I am also a big X-Men fan, so likely bias

Been looking for awhile for a Reign of the Supermen page - please message me if you have one you are considering selling or if you have any leads.

4 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Have the two books fallen in value since the thread began? Looks like it.

 

MOS 18 has fallen in value - however, the 4th and 5th print variants still demand a healthy premium over the other printings especially in 9.8. In addition, the 4th and 5th are hard to price as they don’t sell/change hands a lot in 9.8 so pointing at one sale is tough.  

I need to get a Superman 75 CGC 9.8 Platinum - I keep putting it off, but need one for the collection - they look so great in the new case as well .......

Shoot me a PM to discuss price/make an offer. Happy to chat. 

Looking for a panel page featuring Omega Red and the X-Men, would love something with Wolverine and Omega Red. Something  by Kubert would be great (as a Jim Lee page is likely too expensive) - but something from X-Men 18 for example would be perfect. But happy to take a look at anything that may fit  

Also looking for a panel page from the Reign of the Supermen - ideally something with Eradicator or Cyborg Superman - but will look at anything!

PM me if you have something that may work. Happy to pay a fair price.