VintageComics

We've gone on a tangent now and you're talking about something different than we were discussing earlier. Nobody is saying restored books shouldn't sell for less than unrestored. Every market reacts to how information is disseminated. That is the discussion.

The Qualified label is not just about missing stamps though. They are about one significant defect on an otherwise much nicer book. Writing, missing pieces, switched staples (which, incidentally Overstreet allows on Vintage books) and other defects are all things that are covered by the Qualified label. Personally (and as a collector) I like the idea of a green label because it conveys more information than just a universal grade does. I suppose in an an ideal world, you'd have all of this stuff in grader's notes and they would be free. In that sense, the Qualified label is a compromise.

Of course not. It's why we see a large variation in pricing because you can have an ugly 1.5 or a pretty looking 1.5. There is a significant difference between a 1.5 and a 1.5 incomplete. I like the idea of a Qualified label. It catches a LOT of defects where the universal grade doesn't tell the whole story. It's more information, which is always good. They should just always have provided the Universal grade with the Qualified grade.

Because not all 1.5s are the same.

They need to offer both grades. It's that simple.

Of course not. I'm saying that the purple label created a stigma that has created an un-natural price difference, and this huge price difference has caused savvy buyers to unrestore restored books for profit. I'm saying that if all labels were equal from the start, that this 2ndary market wouldn't have formed.

The market is fluid and it's also a collective. This discussion over the years has always yielded a mixed response. But it was generally fifty / fifty. Many people see the benefit of not having a different coloured label. My point isn't really directed at you as much as it is towards what CGC's responsibility is in the market. CGC is responsible for levelling the playing field by rooting out scammers who try to deceive by hiding resto (among other things, including over grading, etc) and offering an impartial grade. But once a company becomes so large that they dictate the market, they have a responsibility to also give the market a fair representation because they now affect the market. It's the same in most industries. Once a company becomes so large that it becomes a monopoly the rules change for that company. having different colors has created a stigmatization that prevents market perception from being impartial, if you will. One color is thought of as being better than another. Ironically, the Canadian cigarette market has actually gone this route of removing flashy colors from packaging. Cigarette sellers are no longer allowed fancy packaging to differentiate their brands. It's the same brown label for everyone with just the name brand printed on the label. Why? Because colors affect the way people choose. https://globalnews.ca/news/5226488/canada-plain-packaging-tobacco/

Actually, it depends on what the goal of the marketing is. CGC did a disservice to the hobby as a whole in the long run by using a purple label from the gate. It seemed like a good idea but it had the negative effect of stigmatizing restored books in purple holders and creating such a large gap in the market that unrestoring books has become a secondary industry (something people disapprove of). And there are many people who feel this way. Borock did 15 years ago but CGC wouldn't make the change. It's why they went with it at CBCS. Other long time collectors feel the same way. I have no doubt that if CGC had started with a blue label for both restored and unrestored books, that nobody would feel they need to be separated but we are looking back after 20 years of having it this way and it's hard to separate ourselves from 20 years of habits.

This is only because CGC initially started with multi-colored labels. If they had started with a blue label for restored and unrestored books, you'd have been programmed to read the label first. When you go to buy Bick's Dill Pickles, do you just walk up and pick a bottle by the color of the label? They all look the same. Of course not. You choose the brand by the color of the label but you READ the label and choose the specific type you want. Why? Because you expect the writing to be different on the labels even though all the labels are the same color. Baby Dill with Garlic for me, please.

Yes. Seller's responsibility. The seller pays for the return postage. And, if I understand PayPal's new rules correctly, they don't refund you the fee they took when you sold the item. Is that correct?

Agreed. The masses are generally reactive to their surroundings and adapt to whatever is provided to them. Had they been forced to differentiate between blue label unrestored and blue label restored, they'd not only learn to read the labels, they'd be forced to learn to understand resto better. People need to be motivated to learn new things and when you dumb stuff down you remove the motivation.

I did the same thing, buying a restored CBCS book without realizing it. There are two reasons for this. 1) we were already programmed to associate blue with unrestored, so introducing a blue label for restored books caused some confusion. 2) the restored notation wasn't very clearly notated - the print / font was small and the label wasn't well designed. They've since cleaned that up.

It sounds like under eBay's rules you have no option but accept the return, even if you did nothing wrong and the buyer is a dork. Until a true competitor arises to compete with eBay, eBay will continue to make life difficult for sellers by favoring with the buyer to keep the bottom line in the black. I thought that Alibaba was going to be one of those competitors for sellers but it hasn't proven to be a viable platform for small time guys like us. If the hobby banded together and all decided to support another online seller in some united fashion, that might help steer people away from eBay. But for now we give eBay all the power and they continue to hold all the cards. Even when they are wrong they are right.

They apologized a few years ago at a high school reunion. No need to muscle 'em any more!

None. Remember getting beat up and bullied because you were a collector? I do.

Continuing that heresy: Captain America was not even the first patriotic hero (Shield), was not the Marvel hero who appeared in the most comic issues of the GA (Subby), was not the Marvel hero who was published for the longest timespan of the GA (Subby), was not the first Marvel GA hero by S&K to debut in his own book (Red Raven), was not the first anti-Nazi cover (Amazing Man), and was not the first anti-Nazi cover on a Marvel/Timely comic (look at MMC 11 as one of many examples). So CA 1 brings nothing new to comics, but a character, and he's not one of my favorite characters. And for me the cover to CA 1 is not in my personal top 10 favorite covers for GA Marvels (I much prefer Schomburg). So I'd much rather have an MC 1. Marvel #1 all the way. Marvel #1 is an old school collector's comic book. Cap #1 is a new school collector's comic book. Not that I dislike Cap #1 but to my recollection (and I will readily admit to being a noob comparatively speaking to other old timers) it wasn't nearly as sought after before the growth of the Marvel Cinematic universe as Marvel #1 was. Marvel #1 was the book I always dreamed about as a kid (not Cap #1) and it remains my favorite comic book of all time.

This is a puzzle that's been dropping pieces here and there the last few days.I'm still confused. It's possible that bocabill is Bill from Miami Comics? Boca Raton is right above Miami FL.

It was sad, but I can understand. The owner wanted that Blue label I think it's more than just wanting a blue label. It's wanting the value that a blue label brings. The main reason this happens is pretty simple and has been discussed on here a lot in the past. People don't know enough about evaluating restoration to value restored books properly and that price gap between restored books and unrestored books makes restored books very attractive to people who unrestore them for profit. I still believe that the stigma of the purple label has exaggerated the effect that restored books have had on the market. Until that changes, that gap will continue to spurn the industry for those who remove restoration.

Can anyone answer that question? Honestly, it's one of the things I dislike about the hobby most because while everyone professes 'love for the book' it's really become 'love for the profit' so I tend to not get involved with discussions like that.

The title of the thread would have you believe that the book is falling off a cliff and never returning. But Bob is right in the sense that most people take a very narrow (or even selfish) view of the market through GPA (or whatever 'last sale' info you use) and base their opinion on that, rather than zooming the lens out a little, factoring in a little 'thinking' and knowledge and then coming up with an entirely different opinion. I was just trying to add some perspective, which a lot of posts seem to be lacking. If there is a downward trend in any traded market, it's usually led by fear...and those with the narrowest view usually lead with the most fear because every movement downwards triggers a panic.

Well, you almost never quote posts and you mentioned 'experts come back out' right after I posted for the first time in a while so I wasn't sure. And I proclaim only to know what I know.

Was this directed at me? I haven't checked GPA on AF #15 recently (or your site). I was commenting on how this thread is wrong and why price corrections happen. Just like they did back in 2010 when Comiclink broke the $200K mark with an AF #15 9.4 - it's a normal economic cycle that people have been griping about. And yes, the taxes also changed everything.

Anybody intellectually honest that has been following this conversation between you and I has already seen history bear witness. So says the comic book dealer. I've never said that comic books only go up. Does that make me a bad dealer or a good dealer?

You're exaggerating a bit on both points.