VintageComics

Avengers #69 CGC 9.8 White pages (Shipping included, 1st appearance of the Grandmaster., 1st app. of Squadron Sinister in cameo, on last page. Kang and Growing Man app) Asking $1700

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Shipping: Certified books, shipping is included FREE within North America, ROW we split it. Raw books, include $10 for shipping within North America. ROW I will split with interested parties.  Who wins: Time stamp seals the deal as to who wins regardless of the form of communication (including PM, in the thread, text or phone conversation). A negotiation is not a deal until both sides have agreed on terms. If there is an unconditional posted (or communicated) it will trump all negotiations unless we have already both agreed to terms before the was posted. In that case, the will have been in vain. Except that it will give you street cred and look cool to passers by. No House Of Shame or Probationary members or any others of ill repute. Returns: I am considered a very good grader among my peers ( Here is a link to my kudos thread ) but since even CGC is inconsistent I will not guarantee a CGC grade. I will guarantee to be within one grade increment in either direction - so if I am calling the book a 9.4 it could go 9.2 or 9.6. If it falls outside of those parameters (and it does happen that they go in both directions), I will offer a refund. But I don't expect anyone to complain if I undergraded it. I will accept returns if item is otherwise not as described. Consider all books pressed. Payment: PayPal, Bank wire, check or MO.

Who exactly are you talking about? Overstreet? They didn't change the rules. They clarified it. It was silly to have pressing notated as restoration because it isn't, and it was only notated as restoration because it was done in association with other restoration work. CGC? CGC wasn't an authority back in 2000. They were rejected by most dealers. And since they havne't published their grading standards EVER you can't accuse them of changing any rules. Like I said, nothing happens in a vacuum. why (it changed) is just as important as the what (changed). Dealers are dishonest because they press books? Should I also declare when I pressed my books as a kid with an encyclopedia? Evil child that I was. Pressing is an innocuous, benign operation. It adds nothing to the book and removes nothing to the book. It's literally 'nothing'. The only reason it raises people's ire is because of the dollar values. Let me give you a story. I picked up an original owner silver age collection where the books were stored raw, in very tall stacks in a very humid and warm climate (Hawaii). Every single book was pressed flat because of the storage conditions. Should I declare them pressed? First of all, please don't accuse me of trimming books. 2nd, drawing a comparison between trimming and pressing is a no-go. Pressing DOES NOT quantitatively change the book. It's THE SAME BOOK. Trimming DOES quantitatively change the book. It's NO LONGER THE SAME BOOK. Very simple. This conversation was had a zillion times over since this board started. The answers are alwasy teh same. Like it or not.

The "A" encyclopedia was the best one. Fat and thick. You guys are weak. I used an entire stack of encyclopedias.

I will see him in Heroes and I've emailed him. I'd keep an eye out from NYC all the way down to Virginia if anyone knows local store owners in your respective areas. Thanks, All.

Actually, every single comic book is heated and pressed during the printing process. But no, you are taking the conversation in a different direction by trying to blame CGC for either suppressing the idea (even though the idea was prevalent before CGC) or blaming CGC for the proliferation of pressing (which is simply a product of economics - nothing more). If anyone was suppressing the idea, it was individuals who didn't want to share a business advantage. And CGC had no obligation to proactively announce anything. They were largely rejected by people - even dealers - in their first few years. It wasn't until several years after they opened their doors that they got a foothold in the hobby (after the chat forums, after they started showing up in real numbers on eBay, after people started deferring to them in the market) And I ironed my comics as a kid to flatten them out. My parents were right, they always knew I'd turn out to be evil!

For the same reason that someone realizes they could have sold a book for more. Because money.

I believe Roy would like everyone to conveniently forget this. If X pressed 10 comics from a collection of 10,000 books, he "pressed the collection" is the spin despite it not holding true for 99.9% of the collection. And even then, it's unusual for the day. The Pacific Coast collection was more typical of the day, with none of it having been pressed before being put up for sale. Since the advent of CGC, it's another thing entirely when, in contrast, the Twin Cities or Rocky Mountain pedigrees come to market with issues pressed by the hundreds. The point of the conversation was never whether the entire Mass collection was pressed or not. You sent it in that direction. The ENTIRE point of the conversation was whether pressing was a hidden art that CGC kept secret. And it wasn't. Books were being pressed by individuals before CGC even existed. I only mentioned Marnin because it was convenient and common knowledge but he wasn't the only person doing it. Others were as well. My bad, as usual you are once again correct as it was not 5 years as I had incorrectly stated: Year 1 2000 Year 2 2001 Year 3 2002 Year 4 2003 Year 5 2004 Year 6 2005 Looks like it was in actual fac,t 6 years before CGC retroactively announced to the collecting world that pressing was no longer considered to be restoration as everybody had thought at the time. It was instead, really nothing more than "maximizing the potential of a book" and this was in fact, how CGC had always viewed it. Opps, did we forget to inform everybody about this tiny little insignificant point. I thought you were talking about the original in house pressing service. I thought you were saying THAT ran for 6 years. I was specifically talking about the in house pressing service and that only ran for a year or two before they shut it down to my recollection. CGC was not an authoritative standard. It's not like they had an obligation to educate everyone on their standards and send an announcement on pressing, preceded by trumpets. To this day, they still don't publish their standards. There is a difference between 'common place' and 'hidden' as you are making it out to be. It was commonplace to those who thought to do it. Just like it was commonplace to look for miswraps among those who thought to do it. But I personally didn't even recognize miswraps until I started hanging out with people who started talking about them. Then I started seeing them everywhere. So pressing grew organically as a) word spread and b) as economics made it profitable to do so And it was probably guarded closely by individuals who did it pre CGC because why share a way to make money? It's just bad business in ANY business. Why did it take until Dr. Martin Luther King for the population to realize that segregation was wrong? Because when we are raised a certain way, sometimes the most obvious things are not obvious until we actually think about them objectively. EVEN THOUGH MANY WERE IRONING/PRESSING UNDER ENCYCLOPEDIAS/TRYING TO FLATTEN THEIR BOOKS IN SOME WAY pressing was never restoration, no matter what Overstreet said. It was just conveniently lumped with everything else because b) it was a service performed with other restoration and b) most people didn't think to press individual books And why would they? Most comics were worthless junk 40-50 years ago when those Overstreet rules were written and it wasn't economically feasible. And why is it that people conveniently raise some things from Overstreet but conveniently forget others? Like in Overstreet the older the era, the greater the size of some defects are allowed. But they conveniently forget that when the same people argue that CGC should grade books of all eras the same? You can't pick your points and make them in a vacuum. Things changed over time and the reasons they changes are just as important as the changes themselves. Pressing wasn't prominent because it wasn't economically feasible in the past. It's as simple as that. Everything else is just noise.

This is what it has always been about to me. Holding the comic (especially high grade comics). Handling them delicately. Smelling the paper. Seeing the dated advertisements. Even the risk of damage is appealing, knowing that you're handling something fragile. And at the same time, reading them. Even better is reading a vintage book knowing that someone 10, 20 or 50 or 60 years ago read that same comic and enjoyed it. The entire point of it for me is to read the comic, not just see the pictures. It's like holding and enjoying an album, reading the notes and admiring the art vs. just downloading the songs digitally. They are worlds apart.

I get it. But handling/storing single issues as opposed to a book/books of 6+ issues can be daunting after a certain threshold. There are board members on this forum with not only 10,000's of comics in their homes but 100,000's of comics in their homes. That's what old school collectors did. They collected. It's not a burden, it's the whole point. But this discussion is making evident the differences in mindset between the old school and the new school (no disrespect intended). There's an underlying theme in the new generation that is probably perpetuated by the onset of digital media, which has changed how we process information. And we are becoming less patient because of it. The same patience that allowed people to enjoy the intro on an 8 minute song, or spend a lifetime collecting, or speak on the phone for 2 hours with someone has been replaced with 3 minute 'hits' that are hollow and artificial, or the Adrenalin rush of owning something cool for a short time or many messages with everyone but no real conversations that leave a mark on you. And I know I sound like an old guy yelling 'get off my lawn' but that's not really it. I'm young enough to 'get it' today and still old enough to remember the entire transition from the 70's to today. Imagine wanting to fill a run of comics for your collection, snail mailing a check - a frigging hand signed check, then waiting 4-6 weeks for a reply and then getting sent back either your check or a substitute book because the one you wanted wasn't in stock? As silly and frustrating as it sounds, I think it may have been more satisfying than the instant gratification of today. If only because it wasn't about accomplishing the run, it was about the journey and the pursuit of putting it together. Back then it was mostly about the pursuit because the accomplishment took so much time. Today is all about the accomplishment and everyone gets there quicker so it's not appreciate as much.

Of course, collected editions bring with them their own collecting woes I actually almost NEVER read trades. I prefer to hold and read actual comics. To me part of the satisfaction comes from knowing I'm reading a comic.

Old school collectors looked at it as a marathon. For some, it took a lifetime but it was always the thrill of the chase that kept them going and not the end of the race.

Marnin pressed the Mass books. He just didn't press the entire collection. But again, the point of the statement was to show that pressing was being done before CGC was around. Pressing became commonplace because profit made it so. It's a natural progression in any economy. If someone finds money to be made it will be exploited. As it become more profitable to press books (as the rose in value) the incidence in pressing increased. If values didn't rise the way they did, you wouldn't have as many pressed books.

That's because 26 years ago it wasn't worth pressing most of the collection. You could buy a high grade Hulk #181 for $200-300 at the time and a Daredevil #1 wouldn't have been a very expensive book (I can't remember what it would have cost in grade) so it seems that he pressed anything that would be worth pressing - which would have been the earliest ASM and FF books as those were the two most expensive runs. Fast forward today and people still generally only press books that are financially viable to press. There were just less books that were financially viable back in the day.

But that isn't really the point. The point is that it wasn't some secret thing. It just wasn't well known, but those that knew did it. No, but it is a well known (and popular example). Others did it too. The main point is that it was going to be a public service. And I don't think it went on for 5 years but I could be wrong.

I'm on the road so I'll fill in more details later when I have a minute, but there was a box of books stolen from a board members porch in the Baltimore area this morning around 11AM.. The books were originally in a White Fed Ex box and in Mylars and the contents are as follows. Amazing Spider-man #2 (CGC 8.0, cracked out) Amazing Spider-man #11 (raw, extremely high grade copy - roughly 8.5/9.0) Avengers #71 (raw, high grade copy) Hulk #141 (CGC 9.4, cracked out) X-men #15 (CGC 9.2, cracked out) The ASM #2 and #11 and X-men #15 would stand out in particular as they are extremely nice looking copies that you don't see very often. Real eye catching copies. If any local stores get offered the books or you have any leads, please contact me asap. I will offer a reward if they are found. More details when I get a chance.

Got a ton of new books in and I will be posting them as I have time over the next few days, hopefully. If you have any interest or questions, feel free to message me and I'll get back to you with the best of my ability. Amazing Spider-man #300 CGC 9.6 White Authentic Police Cases #24 CGC 8.5 White (Matt Baker) Avengers #69 CGC 9.8 White Batman #153 CGC 9.4 OWW Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 CGC 9.8 White Black Panther #1 CGC 9.8 White Crimes By Women #1 CGC 7.5 COW Daredevil #52 CGC 9.8 OWW Eternals #1 CGC 9.8 White Giant-Size Spider-man #4 CGC 9.8 White (Punisher app.) New Mutants #98 CGC 9.8 White New Teen Titans #2 CGC 9.8 White Secret Wars #8 CGC 9.8 White Silver Surfer #5 CGC 9.6 OWW Special Marvel Edition #15 CGC 9.6 White Wolverine Limited Series (1982) #2 CGC 9.8 White Wolverine Limited Series (1982) #3 CGC 9.8 White X-men #103 CGC 9.8 White X-men #104 CGC 9.8 White X-men #109 CGC 9.8 OWW X-men #116 CGC 9.8 White X-men #129 CGC 9.8 White X-men #130 CGC 9.8 White X-men #134 CGC 9.8 White

Charlie didn't buy that book. Pressing wasn't a secret. Books were being pressed before CGC was ever opened for business. From what I understand Marnin pressed the Mass books before they were brought to market in the 1990s. CGCs pressing service was kept under wraps for a shot time but that's normal with any product launch as stuff gets ironed out. The only reason it became controversial was because people felt left out (and that it was considered a conflict of interest) but it was going to eventually be a public service. It just didn't' make it that far at the time.

I used to think that and yet people continue to buy run books that I slab in high grade. There's still new people making inroads to the hobby. People I have never heard of in 10 years of being a full time dealer are buying stuff regularly.

Oh dear God, what have I done? What have I started?

That's what I'm talking about. Thank you !

Let's just rename the Forumite of the Year award to the Greggy award. Then, the people who won could say they have a Greggy. @Flee-Marquette I'm begging you now.

We need a statue of greggy to give to Forumite of the Year. That way nobody will be jealous of the winner.

Ah, you're one of those people who used the wrong emoticon then because that one was a curse word AND it was emotional. Considering this has been discussed ad nauseam since this forum began, I doubt it. Here's another flower (this means I agree to disagree).