VintageComics

Me and some friends were just chatting about this a few days ago via PM. This place used to have DOZENS of new posts every hour and on a Friday night there would be boardies having drinks and chatting the night away in one thread or another. There were regular sellers on Friday nights that would start sales threads, just as Friday night entertainment and those threads would have dozens of pages in an evening. For people that have just joined in the last 3-4 years, you wouldn't recognize this place, it used to be so busy. Where have all the good times gone?

Small chips are allowable but it's always going to depend on the size of the chip and what the rest of the book looks like. If the book is a 9.6 before factoring in the chips, the book will likely downgrade. If the book is much nicer than a 9.6 but those two tiny chips are the only defect, then the 9.6 is a realistic grade and consistent with CGC's grading standards over the last 20 years. There a myriad of factors and it's impossible to tell without seeing the entire book...and for super high grades, seeing the book in hand is really the only way to be sure.

Wow. I loved his posts. He was always so cool and even if we disagreed he was so respectful. Truly a man with a great spirit. So sad to hear this.

That depends on what your birth sign is...I think. Cliff's Notes, @CAHokie ? EDIT: Nevermind, he's provided evidence. On a slight tangent, this is why a lot of people reference "The Matrix" when discussing these sorts of things. There is quite literally an "information wall" being built around society - everyone can see it happening in real time and you can read about it, and that 'wall' comes between the truth - which is protected by authority and segregated from the common people so that average person can't discern what's really happening. How many people in this thread knew all of this? I'd bet very few, thanks to a few who continue to push you to appeal to authority. The same authority that is building the wall around you. There really isn't an aspect of your life that isn't affected and everyone should pay more attention to those that seem bent on not wanting to have a discussion, or to push you to towards authority, because there are several in this very thread who keep trying to do so. I'd name names but I don't want a strike. Anyway, I think I've made my point. Independent comics are truly the way to go for pure, uncorrupted storytelling. --------------------------------------- As far as the secondary market goes, I thought about this and I truly believe it will thrive as people look for authenticity and artifacts that represent a previous time, before everything changed. One of the things I love most about the Silver Age was the age of innocence it represented, when live was less complicated and more authentic and transparent and I think as population expands, and more and more artificial stuff is pushed onto people, those who crave authenticity will seek it out in old artifacts from history with pop culture and comics being a truly American, pure art form. Assets are what all the rich people are buying up as we speak.

I thought I was losing my mind for a second. THIS is why people should be allowed to talk things through, because had we cut the convo or a group derailed it with an argument, we'd just be left at odds. I thought the tributes were cool but I would never watch that movie otherwise. Is it worth the watch?

I'll bet you a jar of pickles Virgos out number other signs when it comes to loving pickles.

Just kidding. I'm now going to have to try them. I happen to love pickles, and in my experience most Virgos do. Not scientific, but I have a large cross section of data to support it! Now is there ANYONE who disagrees with what I posted today?

Condescension implies intent. I sometimes have trouble condensing my thoughts (obviously, duh ), I get eager being ADHD and probably somewhat autistic, but I never intend to sound condescending. We have a very broad audience with varying levels of understanding and I just wanted to put it in crayon for people who may not understand where I'm coming from, which happens regularly on the internet. There are condescending people here in this very thread, and they've trolled me for years but I'm not one of them. My intent has ever, always been to learn, have fun and foster positive discourse and this thread is proof of how a conversation can be great and educational when people are not trying to cancel the conversation, get someone banned, bait them into difficult situations or just plan attack them to shame them like you're doing now. Condescending people shut conversations down. When is the last time someone saw me shut down a conversation? Now when is the last time you saw someone try to shut me down? People have been trolling me for years trying to paint me for a dummy and they did it by trying to shut me up mid sentence all the time. I'm very thankful that Moderation is allowing longform conversation and moderating all the people who used just bring unproductive insults into the convo. You've been trolling me for a long time and Mike has already asked you stop. Now I'm asking you stop. Did you have something to add of value?

Agreed. They won't kill the comics line because these 'incubators' as you so well put, create the food. They provide the seeds that fill the farm, but their goals changed once media expanded into a worldwide audience. The goal of the 'incubators' used to be to fill the farm and feed a family, or take the food to market to feed other families through a one market. The incubators no longer take the food to one market as the end goal, the incubators take the food to corporate distributors who feed entire countries through multiple markets, and they do that by artificially, digitally multiplying the food source and marketing it as being the same as the original, small family food source when the two are entirely different. The quality of the food matters much less in the 2nd example, because the quantity of the food matters much more. You can't have both. They're diametrically opposed. -------------------------------------------- I made this point that I'm about to make below, many years ago: What is happening is that ideological / philosophical paths are being exposed. There are two of them, they are wholly incompatible, and they diverged a long time ago. One path believes in working along strict, ideological, objective TRULY sustainable principles. This path never compromises on it's own principles because they are time proven. To put out quality, you need consistency in things like a code of behavior, and operating principles. Quality over profit plays a much longer game and is much more successful at longevity. This is how empires are built. The other path believes it can make up the rules as they go along and tosses out objectivity for subjectivity, so it will absolutely cross it's own principles for profit every chance it gets. This path ALWAYS compromises on it's own principles for profit. It must, because if there is more profit, it must be searched out at the expense of anything else. The 'long game' on this path is really just a bunch of constant short games, being presented as an 'equal' long game through media manipulation, advertising, marketing, corporate espionage etc. JUST LIKE WE OUTLINED IN THIS THREAD. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF SUSTAINABLE, PRESENTING ITSELF AS SUSTAINABLE. And we all know that in any equation, when there is one false premise, everything built on it will be incorrect. That's how corporate business works. ------------------------------- I always go back to the old world thinking in the automotive industry, which everyone can see and understand. In the 1980's, corporate boardrooms hadn't yet corrupted German manufacturers and they were still building cars that were supposed to last forever. Benz had a MILLION MILE GUARANTEE on their cars for certain parts. True story. America was already building cars in the new world way. After the oil crisis of the 70s, using corporate driven board rooms that sought ways to squeeze blood from a stone, instead of using time honored principles, American cars were sold as quality but were absolute junk. What happened in the 90s, was as media exploded, the digital age began to commence, and the world became wildly aware of how big of a market there was, the American corporate boardroom invaded all economic systems and greed drove even the staunch German auto manufacturers to compromise their products. I was there. The mid to late 90's Benzs became the most problematic cars in their entire history. One single model, the SUV ML model, built in conjunction with the US (remember, Benz merged with Chrysler and this was their first product) had more recalls than all other models combined in their 100 year history. That is what is happening today everywhere. You're being fed junk, being convinced it isn't junk and most people have been dumbed down too far to be able to tell the difference. Time for consumers to see past the razzle dazzle and make wiser choices. I'm off to shoot some hoops!

Slacker! Everyone loves fresh meat! I just think this angle I've presented is a fresh take that nobody has thought about or discussed on here in detail, and yet it has been quite literally growing in front of our eyes in real time. The cancellation of the Fantastic Four comic books a decade ago is when I started to realize something was amiss. There were lots of excuses then, but now in hindsight we can paint a much clearer picture that NOBODY can dispute any longer because we now have the full view. The point I've made is immutable and unequivocal. ------------------------------------ In case new readers here didn't know, from 2014: Between the Panels: Why It's Good Marvel Cancelled Fantastic Four It's been a persistent rumor all year that Marvel is planning to cancel their Fantastic Four comic as part of an ongoing feud with 20th Century Fox over the franchise's film rights. Sure enough, Marvel confirmed the series' cancellation at NYCC last week. While we can only speculate as to the motivations behind the decision, clearly things aren't looking up for the World's Greatest Comics Magazine. ------------------------------------- The progression into movie talk is not only necessary, it's unavoidable because MULTI MEDIA reaching a base of BILLIONS OF FANS is much more lucrative than just comics reaching a fan base of millions of fans. Comics are not the end goal anymore. Movies, toys, video games and other merchandise are the goal and you are being groomed as a consumer society to be fed all of this. Comics are just the comb used for grooming. The story, the art, the complexity and uniqueness of the art, EVEN THE PROFIT FROM COMICS are all secondary to the much greater market. So, the audience will either try to digest this "fresh meat" or argue why they're Vegan, as these seem to be the two sides formed around the world. Literally and figuratively. Let's see the Vegans try to talk their way out of this one.

That is a fair point but I never discussed the origins of the franchise, only it's growth in the cinematic universe and how they treated the franchise as soon as Depp became embroiled in legal conflict so a better choice of words for me would have been "expanded their one ride into an entire theme park around the franchise" I did not know that, so thank you.

Buddy, I've known you a LONG time and we respect each other. Read my post again. It's not a discussion about movies. It's a discussion about how comics are nothing more than a marketing tool for the movie houses and so they care little about the quality of the story telling and more about how the stories will drive people to their movies. This is why Indy stories are flourishing. They escape the corporate swamp and give artists the freedom to express themselves independently. I realize this has been going on a long time, but not at this scale. It used to be much more niche, but this is world changing stuff happening in real time.

And now the conversation degrades to this. Too bad. What's next? Your Momma jokes? This is why I don't engage.

It's OK. I've got your back.

This is why I can't engage. I have for years and the end result is always the same. Yes. Yes. Yes. I need everyone to take a breath and pretend it's not me talking. The same Hollywood so covered in sex scandals it will never outrun them because the scandals are a foundation of the industry, the same Hollywood that owns Marvel and DC, the same Hollywood that quite literally indoctrinates children on how to behave is the same Hollywood that would absolutely torch any person or company that they feel needs to go. If Disney did it to Johnny Depp, who was INNOCENT but treated like he was guilty, who was one of the largest stars in Hollywood, who made over $255MIL in just 5 Pirates movies from Disney and had a theme park built after the franchise, they will do it to anyone. The reason Disney torched Depp so quickly? Because keeping someone like that on the payroll would quickly change that company's perception in the ESG community (unsustainable behavior), lowering their ESG score and this in turn would affect investments from Venture Capitalists and corporate investors who would pull away their funding due to the "lack of sustainability". This is why we see so many people cancelled so quickly. Gina Carano, Russell Brand, Mel Gibson. They will torch them faster than they can pour gasoline on them. It's not that the FANS that want these people torched. It's corporations within the ESG framework who want to keep their ESG score high because it will affect their standing in the ESG community. Then, they project to the media how "bad" these people are and the mob turns against them. That is the formula. You're thinking like a "mom and pop" grocery store on Long Island owned by Grandma. I'm talking about someone who OWNS LONG ISLAND. Let's pretend the person who owns Long Island owns Claussen Pickles, the largest brand in America. Let's pretend Grandma with a "mom and pop" store on Long Island started Boars Head Pickles, a much smaller brand and Boars Head starts gaining on Claussen. The person who owns Long Island and Claussen will ABSOLUTELY torch Grandma to keep their Boars Head Pickles from gaining momentum, even if it means a short term loss in that particular town. The net profitability for Long Island is up because now everyone else has to carry Claussen which are exported to the rest of the country. Boars Head has been crushed and pulled from competing shelves. And I know what everyone is thinking. "Conspiracy theory". And yet it's all here in black and white and easy to prove. ----------------------- How does this relate to comics and the germane points in this discussion as a whole? I'm glad you asked. Corporations care very little for the end product's art form. They care about profitability on a grand scale, not how Marvel does in comics. Are you eating Claussen or Boars Head pickles? The comics (Boars Head Pickles), which reach a few hundred or a few million people, are now just another disposable business tool to drive the greatest profits which come from: Media, merchandising and selling you things which reach BILLIONS of people (Claussen Pickles). So if they can torch something for higher profits, it's happening faster than you can pour gasoline on it. I redirect everyone to when Marvel quite LITERALLY STOPPED PUBLISHING THE FANTASTIC FOUR COMIC TO STARVE FOX OF THEIR FF MOVIE RIGHTS. We discussed it all here almost a decade ago! Has everyone forgotten? And then, after starving Fox out, they finally ended up buying the rights from Fox a few short years after. People, we are arguing numbering systems and artists and playing checkers, while they are playing chess by torching entire franchises for profit. THE CORPORATE WORLD IS AFFECTING THE ART FORM. This is the world we live in currently. Tell me again how what I'm talking about is conspiracy theory and I'm talking out of my butt? I can't wait to see who is going to offer a rebuttal now. @delekkerste Can you please proof read this for me? M'kay? Thanks.

Please stop with the personal commentary.

Quite literally, some are trying to argue the opposite of the truth: That Big Corporations care about little people and that they care about the artists. What kind of a Bizarro world are we in now?

Please don't tell me to breathe and focus. I'm saying the entire FF Corman discussion is a misdirection which was latched onto when in fact it's a total red herring. Ignore the fact that I quoted you because I simply did that because it was the last post and you will see that the rest of my point stands.

So at the 1:10-30 mark, he's not talking about how he was simply trying to act out him witnessing a dying universe that eventually turned into him fighting a giant spider? Am I misunderstanding that part of the video?

Discussing the Corman FF film in this way is nothing more than a red herring and a misdirection from the original point. The original point was, and still is, that executives and corporations have goals that differ from the artists. The John Carter debacle is a different can of worms than the Corman FF debacle, but it is the same point - that big money plays with people's lives and cares nothing about the little people and if it serves their purpose, they will burn these people and move onto the next pawns. It is an established fact of history that John Carter was burned in this way as fodder. It's been known and accepted for a decade by the general public, and STILL nobody HERE will admit that John Carter was purposefully sabotaged ruining the careers of many involved, especially the lead star. Instead, we've misdirected the conversation to a red herring to avoid the main point and we're comparing the budget of a terrible FF movie to a terrible Cap movie.

The conversation is actually on point. You just need to pay attention. Some people (not you, but detractors) are unable to follow along a conversation. They just want 'splosions and girls in tights and their world will be OK, but real discussion and problem solving takes time and communication.

So, he was under the impression that he was filming something completely different than the end product? Wow.

Mike, can we just tighten the noose on contentious posts in general, overall? We are living in a very politically charged atmosphere but it doesn't have to get personal. Personal insults are just far too common these days. And that includes me. If I'm involved with contentious posting, I'm happy to get stung by moderation.

Just heard about this today. Crazy.

There is an entire new economy forming, if people are not aware. Besides laws being passed in various regions around the US to prevent ESG investment companies from flourishing, there are now actual trade shows JUST for these types of groups, who are choosing only to do business with each other and not other businesses that support the ESG agenda. The *we're not allowed to say it here* side is being boycotted in greater measure across the board than most realize, and it may be that Disney is in now the crosshairs. How are other Disney movies performing over all, relative to other movie houses? Or are all movies failing now, just because post-pandemic nobody really wants to go to the movies anymore? @Bosco685 Great question for you.