VintageComics

I heard a commentator once state that comic book movies are basically structured as male power fantasies and as such primarily appeal to men. He then went on to say that a female hero in that sort of story would not attract a female audience as it is still a story designed to appeal to male ideas of fantasy. There was further digression into Rom-Com demographics and such. I will try to find the video. God, I'm so glad you're here. This is SUCH an important point that hasn't been discussed to my knowledge and it completely eviscerates any discussion over why superhero movies are failing. Men and women are biologically and psychologically WIRED DIFFERENTLY. THEY ARE OPPOSITES. Guys LOVE superheroes, action, conflict, fighting, aggression. We LITERALLY get OFF on it. The other day I saw a bunch of my friends on IG dressed in Middle Ages battle armor and fighting with swords and axes in a pit. For fun. It was their "Sunday-Funday" Did you guys know that guy's testosterone levels increase just being close to "guy" things? It's why guys are obsessed with sports, video games, verbal jousting, play fighting, and why we can literally argue or throw fists at each other and afterwards walk away and shake hands respectfully. When I shared the video with a lady friend of mine, who is VERY progressive, strong, independent and accomplished (she's the Founder of the charity event I'm working on) she rolled her eyes and couldn't believe it. She wanted nothing to do with it. And what Disney is doing, so that they can "appeal to women" is they are trying to force women into a genre that historically, biologically and psychologically THEY HAVE WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH. And then they wonder why the movies are failing. This is literally a clown world we are living in, trying to force square pegs into round holes and convincing everyone they fit. Superhero movies don't appeal to women nearly as much as they appeal to men and they are trying to convince you they do while they are literally going bankrupt trying to do so. It's as though they have NO idea what the target audience is, and they know better than everyone so you'll sit and enjoy it. Women DON'T LOVE THE GENRE THE WAY MEN DO. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INEQUALITY. THEY DON'T WANT IT. Why do you all think V for Vendetta was two of my 3 daughter's favorite movies? Because they could relate to Evey. They can't relate to Captain Marvel. Of course if you fill them with enough testosterone they might. That's the reality. But naturally? No. End. Mic drop. Disney can send me their check.

It DOES feed the worst side on issue and it drives people further apart. There is a wedge being driven between both sides and most don't recognize it. You know, I glanced over this initially and wasn't sure what you were getting at and then it struck me. Why didn't they put Idris Elba into Loki's role? Great question on multiple levels. For example, if the goal was to represent African Americans, then why not put him into a LEAD role rather than a supporting role in the movie? It's patronising but disguised as something else. And why wasn't Loki played by Idris? The answer is clear. They were brothers and it wouldn't have made sense. I don't think most people actually understand how logic works. Your logic is rock solid and it closes the discussion. The only way to reopen the discussion is to bend the rules of reality, something you can't do with logic. It's either true or false. It's uncompromising. I had a really great experience this summer. I got to meet one of the members of Redbone, who was actually telling us about the special endowments native Americans received to create their music. Ironically, this is a song from the Guardians movie! Then we got to sing the song with him. It as a pretty special night. Yep. Can I just say how FRICKING AMAZING IT IS TO SEE YOU POSTING AGAIN!!!!!!! I didn't think you were coming back! As someone stated on Facebook today, humans don't get tired of Superheroes. Literally EVERY GREAT STORY, arc, narrative, myth, religion, history book and childhood story is wrapped around a mythical or historical figure that is greater than everyone else. Jesus, Mohammed, Thor, Hulk, Your Parents, Satan, Moloch - WHOEVER. The "superhero fatigue" myth is a narrative constructed to discredit factual discussion. Further, the "some people want to write the narrative about how a type of content is being forced" is happening. EVEN DISNEY WILL ADMIT IT if the conversation is allowed here, WHICH IT IS NOT. So your entire premise is wrong.

What a Quantam leap in logic. Dude, all that post says is that you're mean spirited and don't have the self control to ignore what doesn't interest you. Sorry you feel that way.

You have a wealth of examples you choose from, your replies are non-combative, factual, very articulate and pretty much close ended. I wish I could write like that. I'd never said anything about the last bolded line (changing the race of Norse characters) but it's objectively strange and even ridiculous to have Norse characters played by non-Norse characters. To be fair, I didn't mind Edris Alba playing Heimdall very much, but him being very good looking helps people accept that role. The dude is a stud and because of that, back in 2011 most let it slide...but it always stood strange with me and I think with a lot of people. Imagine if Django in Django Unchained was played by Leonardo DeCaprio? This is a clear example of how viewers are expected to just accept things that are wholly unrealistic, objectively speaking and are contrary to the spirit of the truth. Not a big deal as an isolated incident, but it starts to take much larger form when viewed in the context of the entire conversation.

I'm not sure if this is just disingenuous or ignorance, but remember the word intent we talked about? Intent is everything and you can't remove it from a discussion to make the discussion abstract. The intent of the messaging has changed. The source material for the messaging used come be from the bottom up, so Disney appealed to it's base by putting out movies the base wanted to see. The source material for the messaging today is coming from top down, so Disney is putting out movies THEY THINK YOU SHOULD SEE. This is driven by corporate interests, not by consumer interests. The two are wholly different things. I assume you approve of the latter?

Why don't you just either add to the discussion, offer a proper rebuttal or leave it? All you've done is throw out mockery in the last few days. I had the same experience. I grew up programmed to think Germans were abrasive and not nice people through the same shows and in the same way. What I found, after spending my entire adult life working with German firms and German people, was that they were incredibly polite and gracious people. Which is why I continued to work for them. And I am certain that the main reason they are so gracious and polite is because they quite literally took accountability for what happened in World War 2 to heart, and walked forward with humility. The West can really use some accountability and humility these days but it's nowhere to be found.

I wasn't looking to get a response. I simply was trying to draw your attention to the post for fun and if you chose to respond, then fine. No malice intended and no big deal. I think you're overthinking it. Again, we're misunderstanding me. You just talked about dinner and waiting for 2 hours in traffic in the other thread. I was just having a "stream of consciousness post" (something I probably started on this forum ) and I was "channeling you" when I gave the forums a glimpse into my personal life the way you do sometimes. All good. Sorry I tagged you. It was genuinely meant to be innocuous and fun.

The most unique, refreshing and productive thing about east Asian culture is THEIR HUMILITY and lack of ego. You can have a CEO and a blue collar worker sitting next to each other in the lunchroom. I've heard it from multiple sources (or that's the way it used to be). They just all had jobs but saw each other as equals, and as such they communicate with each other better and they are able to problem solve better. How can ANYONE solve ANY problems when people can't even communicate with each other in simple conversation? It's impossible.

First off, I don't mine Buzzetta's posts at all, but why doesn't anyone complain when HE posts off topic in movie threads? Why do certain characters only complain when I'm posting off topic? Asking for a friend. Anybody? I genuinely don't care, I just find it funny that I get constant complaints but when Buzz posts pics of plumbing pr talks about dinner, nobody cares. Well, actually I care. I enjoy posts like this. It's what makes us human. Moving on: This is definitely part of it, but it is absolutely NOT the main reason. The main reason is that Disney and other companies have an agreed upon system of operation, that much like in the blue collar world, they need to have a certain TYPE of content in their product to represent all sorts of people. It has to be delivered a certain way and with certain messaging. Their product needs to conform to certain ideals. This is unequivocally true. If anyone wants to see the hows and whys, all they need to do is ask. This is WHY corporations are interfering with the art of story telling. A writer may want a certain type of character, or type of story and if the story doesn't conform to their strategy, they change it. But what they do in effect is they CHANGE THE ARTIST'S CREATION and add corporate content. Imagine a Zeppelin record being recorded, but in 1973, say...cowbell is all the rage. So they start putting cowbell in Zeppelin songs all over the place. But Zeppelin is in their "country and folk" era, and Cowbell doesn't belong, scream Jimmy Page and Robert Plant!! "Well, I'm the record label owner, and I'm funding this record and the audience wants cowbell, so I WANT YOU TO PUT IN MORE COWBELL!" So they put in cowbell everywhere, and it doesn't make sense to Plant, Page, Jones and Bonham. And the record tanks because there's too much cowbell. And then the Big Money guys blame the band. And they all get fired and more Cowbell goes into the NEXT record in line. This may sound funny, but the analogy is perfect and this is EXACTLY what is happening and why the movies are failing at the box office. Just like in Spiderman 3. They had too many foreign corporate interests. Sony even ADMITTED to it. You want to see a movie that isn't failing? Find the movies that don't have too much cowbell and more true art in them. That's what people want.

Not looking for a response. Was just emulating your style of posting by bringing my daily life into a forum post the way you do sometimes, only I'm not talking about plumbers and Long Island.

Mods notified.

That's CRAZY, but it just does to show how if you sit on your laurels how quickly things change.

This is very commonplace in every industry. Kevin Durant got busted pumping himself on Social Media like, MANY years ago. It doesn't surprise me that a corporation like Disney, with no integrity at all would lie, cheat and do anything at their disposal just to keep LOOKING successful while bombing behind the scenes. There is a new social order in the world, and weaponization of the media has become acceptable. The PR firms who took these jobs are just as guilty. They should be exposed and tarred and featherd. It's the only way things will change. This sort of thing makes me want to never watch another new Disney movie again.

@fantastic_four Question right up your alley above...thoughts?

Legacy everything is dying and creators are figuring that out. By restructuring his costs he has circumvented that entire industry, so he's no longer slave to meeting the demands of a dying industry. It gives them more control over their art, more profits into the people involved and less into the pockets of a bloated industry that will probably never return to it's former heights. Does anyone see theaters expanding ever again? I see their numbers being reduced and going out becoming a rare thing for most because in this day and age the average person can't even afford gas to get to work, let alone blow $80 bucks to see a movie with two people, have some popcorn and soda pop, when you can eat a gourmet dinner at home and watch the movie with the entire family for that price. It's a brilliant move and one that most movie houses will eventually follow. In fact, it would be interested to discuss how struggling companies like Disney / Marvel, DC / Warner will react since Blumhouse is flourishing while they falter.

@Buzzetta style report coming from behind the scenes to a chat near you: I have two daughters who are dying to see it with me. My 26 year old still hasn't seen it. My 22 year old has seen it and loved it and wants to see it again with me and my other daughter so we'll be seeing it next week. Their Mother, in her exact words: "It had some funny parts but I thought it was silly." I totally saw that coming. She grew up in Europe has a real disdain for how culture has turned in North America since she moved here in 1988. She did also say this: "I think it’s a great movie for a father to see with his daughters."

Most people in the West can learn a lot from more the Japanese than the Japanese can learn from the West and I attribute it to the age and maturity of the culture. The mistakes the West are making now in all aspects, the Japanese were making 1000's of years ago. They've matured out of it. I've enjoyed learning about Japanese culture since Frank Miller introduced me to it circa 1982 and have tried to more or less incorporate a similar philosophy in my life since becoming an adult. Their greatest asset is self accountability and self editing, which is a lost art in the West. That's why they're respectful even to the things and people they dislike.

Do you think I'm letting you off the hook that easily?

You'd be surprised how utterly unpredictable the future really is. Basing predictions on whats in front of today, even 5 years from now would be difficult to predict what will me the major trends in the entertainment industry. Yep. Deus ex machina (/ˌdeɪəs ɛks ˈmækɪnə, ˈmɑːk-/ DAY-əs ex-MA(H)K-in-ə,[1] Latin: [ˈdɛ.ʊs ɛks ˈmaːkʰɪnaː]; plural: dei ex machina; English "god from the machine")[2][3] is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly or abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence. --------------------------------------------- Comics General has been predicting the demise of the hobby since 2002. Stock market? Nope. It's manmade and 100 years old and they have no idea what it's doing. The economy? Nope. Tomorrows weather? Nope. So what is predictable? Time is undefeated. That's about it. In a similar vein to both the topic of AI and the literary device Deux ex machina, I rewatched this over yesterday and today and it was EVERY BIT AS GOOD as the day I saw it. Just an incredibly crafted flick. If you haven't seen it, it's not only great as a standalone, it's a timely film to revisit as it was filmed 9 years ago but is about the coming of AI.

I'll take that as a compliment, although I'm usually right. It's very easy to make any position 'look' reasonable when one can eliminate all opposition. That's how every dishonest regime throughout history did it. This movie is OBVIOUSLY about elevating women and so it's inevitable that this discussion is going to happen any time the movie is discussed and that's a great thing. The real test of whether a point stands on its own merits is not if an authority states the point is true, but if those points stand under scrutiny. If anyone can make a reasonable case to disagree, I'm all ears but if you can't make a case under scrutiny then the point must give way to better points. There's really far more to this discussion, like HOW to inspire change in how men and women interact and how to remove TRUE inequalities, rather than just "perceived" or even "engineered inequalities" but I'm staying on point until I see the movie and can comment on it. In fact, I messaged my daughters this afternoon and one of them hasn't seen it yet so we'll be watching it together next week. I'm really excited about it! I'm going to try to see if their mom and my other daughters are available as well. I'll definitely report back what we think afterward.

There is zero politics. It's all opinions and discussions around business decisions. Everyone has something they don't like. I hate it when one forum is dominated by endless posts and memes about movie revenue but I don't gripe about it even though that's all this forum is sometimes. So which is better? 10,000 posts of single memes or 10 posts with 1000 words? The end result is the same amount of volume. It's just a matter of personal preference. There's a large group of people who actually are enjoying the longform discussion and I just focus on what I like and ignore the rest. That's probably best for everyone. You guys really don't want me griping about posters here, do you? That could get VERY long winded.

Let me guess, @lizards2 took that shot!

Bruh. I used to spend all my paper route money at the arcade, which was across the road from the building my paper route was in! I was a horrible teenager!

I'm not tribal at all and have always spoken out against tribalism since I was a kid. It's why I got beat up in grade school by the bullies. I never backed down on a principle I believed in no matter which side it came from, which is not how most people make decisions. As proof, one last time I'll offer the fact that I've left MY TRIBE, my family and everything I was brought up with behind because I felt it was wrong...and I left it to never join another tribe again. Not many can say that. ----------------------------- I'm very much looking forward to this. I've spoken to many of my female friends about the movie, they've all spoken overwhelmingly about it, and I can understand why. The movie empowers them in ways that they haven't been able to be empowered in the real world and I love that as well, with my whole heart. One of my daughters on Father's Day a few years ago wrote that I was the 1st man she ever loved. That hit me in a way that if you haven't had a daughter may never understand. I've worked VERY HARD at trying to be a man that women want to be around for the long term and I feel I have an above average grasp of how women feel out in the world and while everyone has ups and downs, even my ex wives get along with each other. Seriously. We can all sit at dinner together. Heck, I've brought a lady friend over to my ex's home and had dinner with them both at the same table. ----------------------------------- I don't disagree that women have obstacles. Everyone has obstacles. What I disagree with is how those obstacles are defined and the solution offered to "remove" them. Removing obstacles is NOT the solution. Learning from them and moving past them is. Let me explain. Women have obstacles in a man's world in a similar but opposite way that men have obstacles in women's world. For example, there are fields where men have NO CHANCE of succeeding because it's determined by biology and psychology, and you CAN NOT CHANGE BIOLOGY. Caregiving is one. Women make MUCH better caregivers in EVERY SITUATION. Why are women better caregivers? Because WOMEN are MORE AGREEABLE than men. Men are less agreeable than women. Because women are more agreeable, they tend to think more communally and do what is better for others before they do it for themselves. This makes them great doctors, nurses, practitioners, caregivers. Counterpoint: Because men are LESS AGREEABLE than women, they tend to do better in the CORPORATE world. Why? Because the corporate world, as NOBODY will disagree is CUT THROAT. Because men have more aggression, it makes them worse caregivers and stronger corporate negotiator's. Men are MORE LIKELY to sacrifice their family time for their job because they are LESS AGREEABLE and more aggressive. Women are LESS LIKELY to sacrifice their family time for their jobs because they are MORE AGREEABLE and less aggressive. Now factor in that because only women can carry children and give birth, their time in the workforce is severely limited by THEIR BIOLOGY. Men don't have to stop working while their wives give birth. If you have several children, you've donated YEARS of your working years toward your children. These psychological and biological factor create ALL SORTS of logistical differences for men and women, but the media would have you believe the simple dog whistle that men are bad. Do you see how divisive and unhelpful that narrative is? It's destructive and does the OPPOSITE of help the problem. It stops the discussion, pits people against each other and raises the temperature in the room. So what's the solution? ------------------------------------ Well, the solution is NOT forcing women into jobs they're less qualified for, NOT forcing men into jobs they're less qualified for (in some egalitarian countries and they have laws to protect the men - not the women - kind of like my 1st marriage , because the women are the majority) AND TEACHING people about the differences between men and women and sharing ways to incorporate solutions. The real solution is the same for every obstacle whether it's human rights or any other world problem: It's to educate men and women on their differences so that they can work together to create solutions for the future, and movies like this one - if I'm reading it correctly - using humor and satire may actually do that, but changing the meaning of the word patriarchy to imply something negative is counterproductive and only used a dog whistle used by the media to divide people perpetually. Why EVERYONE wouldn't opt for the educated solution is beyond me, but it needs to be done without putting down one side while lifting the other and I'll let you know when I see it.

The entire reason the greatest apex predators in history aren't still roaming around is because we used our ingenuity and collaboration as men and women combined, to become the greatest species on the planet. Men couldn't have done it without women and men couldn't have done it without women. Just TRY to argue that one. There is a distinct, recent pattern in society to paint men as troublesome and that they need to be fixed, and it's really happening. Being told I'm a "bad patriarch" by the media, while my daughters and exes consider me a "good patriarch" is where the disconnect comes from. Why did the meaning change? That's the $9 Trillion question nobody is allowed to talk about. And while the conversation is not allowed to be had, men are getting neutered (psychologically, physically and symbolically) in every sense of the word. If we'd done that even 100 years ago, we wouldn't even be here today as a race. MUST ADD THIS: The counterpoint is the women's POV and I fully understand that too, but I don't want to broach a new topic here and continue to derail the thread.