joe_collector

The wind in the willows swirled, loosening a piece of tree bark.

>>Why do sales keep coming into this equation.

Because that's the only thing that supports the narrow view that the Bronze Age started in late-'75 and was inherent on GS X-Men to even be started upon.

I've seen this opinion many times before, and is based upon the flawed premise that what is popular today "just had to be" a trend-setter when it first arrived on the scene. In reality, this is hardly ever the truth, as trends come and go, and rarely is anything popular and Age-defining upon release and then maintains that top-line status for 25-30 years.

The X-Phenomenon was a 1990's affair, which is currently dying out and will be (has been?) replaced by another (the Ultimates?).

It's pretty obvious you're just trolling for responses, since you evade the question of what post-1975, pre-Modern Age Marvel comics and new characters did GS X-Men #1 force into being?

I have the list, and it's none too impressive, including gems such as Ms. Marvel, Nova, Devil Dinosaur, and Rom, among others.

If that's your Bronze Age, then go back in your corner and collect them, while the rest of us concentrate on our Bronze Age (your Weird Age) and collect the 1970-80 Marvel characters and comics that Conan #1 and GL/GA #76 brought into being.

Characters like (to steal a post):

Wolverine, Punisher, Deathlok, Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Bullseye, Thanos, Blade, Dracula, Werewolf, Kull, Son of Satan, Man-Wolf, Morbius, Killraven, Man-Thing, Brother Voodoo, Living Mummy, Mantis, John Carter, The Cat, New Age Warlock, Starlin's Captain Marvel, Eternals, Howard the Duck, Doc Savage, Red Sonja, Skull, Golem.

If those characters are not Bronze Age, then you don't have a lot left, nor a lot of collectors looking for "first appearances" in *your* Bronze Age.

What he said.

Seriously, that was a great post kevthemev, and right on the bull's eye.

>>I've always found that debate works best if both parties are interested

I was interested, up until the point where you dragged out the old lame duck about the Bronze Age starting in 1975, and was somehow dependant on a poor-selling, revamped Silver Age comic (you do realize that the X-Men started in the 1960's, don't you, and this was simply a revamp of the membership?) that didn't even go monthly for years after, and didn't become a best-seller until the 1980's.

At that point, I gave up, since that makes no sense and is based on looking at history through the rose-colored glasses of 2003.

Plus, it turns Wolverine and Punisher, two of the most popular characters ever, into (your words) "Weird Era" creations, not to mention a few zillion more 1970-75 characters (Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, etc., etc.) and comics (Defenders, Death of Gwen/GG, etc.) that the vast majority of collectors refer to as Bronze Age.

If you slice out that huge chunk of 1970-75 Marvel characters, books and events as "Weird Era", what do you have left at The House of Ideas that would even resemble an Age?

Oh yeah, I forgot, the top-selling comic of the mid-80's and the X-Mania of the 1990's.

>>I'm not sure that "Bronze Age" dates back quite that far in terms of common usage. I dug up an Overstreet from 1992 and the term isn't even mentioned

Actually, I have earlier OS's where the term is mentioned, but as you know, most Dealers were quite averse to change and refused to grant it universal stature until later. Most of the old-guard were of the "Silver and Gold are quite enough, thank you" camp, and just called them "70's Comics".

You also state later that GS X-Men is the most important Bronze Age comic and I couldn't agree more. In fact, the X-Men followed the EXACT same trend as Spider-man.

AF 15 was not the start of the Silver Age, nor was it the best-selling title of the early-60's (that went to Fantastic Four), but as time went by, it's importance was recognized and Spidey took over as top-seller and launched a ton of new comics in his name.

Then again, all that success and high sales totals couldn't turn back the clock, and his book has never been referred to as the start of the Silver Age. Most important Silver Age comic, perhaps, but too late to be the trend-setter in any way.

The same story goes for GS X-Men. Super important book, but in no way new (it was a revamp of an existing title) and it came in much too late (and took 8+ years to become the sales leader) to be on the forefront of the Bronze Age.

Then again, the above is simply logic, so feel free to disregard it.

>>Another way of looking at that question might be: How many superhero comics were launched in the five years between CONAN # 1 and GS X-MEN # 1, how long did they last, and what similar titles were spun off from them? Now, ask the same question: How many superhero comics were launched in the years following GS X-MEN, how long did they last, and how many spin-offs resulted?

I'll easily take that bet if you're interested in reality, and using the same timeframe. 1970-75 for COnan #1, and 1975-80 for GS X-Men. Using 5 years for Conan and 28 years (to present) for X-Men is unrealistic and illogical.

Personally, I can't think of too many new Bronze Age characters that were a direct result of GS X-Men, and it reaks of historical perspective and not what was happening in the comic's industry in the 1970's.

The X-Men were not Marve';s best-selling comic until into the 1980's. To use today's sales figures to project into 1975-speak creates a world that quite simply never existed.

>>I wasn't discussing contemporary back issue prices, though -- I was talking about what comics got people into the shops month after month after month (after year after year...) to buy the next issue.

Well I feel quite safe in saying that it was Spider-man. His Amazing book was the best-seller during the 70's, and the guy headlined 4-5 different comics through the 70's and early-80's (ASM, PPSSM, MT, MTU, Web).

This phenomenon switched the to X-Men for the Modern Age, which heralded the growth and proliferance of X-based titles.

>> love the X-men too, but at that time, they weren't even the hottest comic around. Spidey was still the king at the time, and X-men weren't nearly as hot as Star Wars or ROM. Take a look at any price guide or back issue catalog from around 1980 or so and compare back issue prices if you don't believe me.

Thanks for the post, and I honestly don't understand where this "X-Men are popular now, so they must have been ultra-hot since 1975" mentality comes from. Must be something in the water.

Not again, I thought all you guys were locked up in the psych ward.

A new Comic Age is easily identifiable by an event that lauches new ideas and characters. The Golden Age is self-apparent, but let's take the Silver.

The re-intro of The Flash led to more DC superheroes being re-introduced, which led to the Justice League, which led to the Fantastic Four, which led to Hulk, Spider-man, Avengers, etc.

The most important Silver Age books? Probably Spider-man (AF 15) and The Justice League (B&B 28), but it all started with Flash.

Now try the same thing with GS X-Men #1; what new and innovative characters sprung from that fountainhead? It's an important Bronze Age comic (al la Spider-man) but not even close to the first.

Be a chum and list your favorite Bronze Age characters and then consult the year they were introduced. Betcha a donut the vast majority pre-dated GS X-Men #1.