Get Marwood & I

Cheers, I'll add some of these to the table later and maybe do The Flash run too. Any thoughts / comments on this earlier post Antoni before I do?

Reds and yellow usually fade away first. Your copy still has a lot of life left to the red. Additionally, you have one spot of bright yellow in the corner of the spotlight that makes it appear the yellow was never applied properly. I think printing error is more likely too as the reds and yellows always fade first. Accordingly, I can see sun fade taking the yellow / magenta out of the brown here on the cop to leave a 'pasty green' cyan mix... .....but I can't see how sun fade would turn the brown here to purple assuming both red and yellows faded equally? More likely that the yellow ink only is missing as, if you look at the crossed circles below, you can see that magenta and cyan only create purple: So I think the yellow ink run out to the left of the cover, which I have seen before. If there is yellow on the back cover though, that would put the theory in doubt as it would have to mean that the yellow ink either ran out or was blocked only in part. Here's a 'normal' back cover...

Cynthia Doyle vs Betsy Crane by Dick Giordano

Cor, tell me about it Gary. I had to disregard about 7 copies of the same DC issue due to illegible stamps Tell me about it again Gary! It's why I personally refer to them as the Unpopular Book Centre

Any chance of a scan or photo of that Detective 274 with the 8 stamp Kevin?

Afternoon guys First up, I haven't processed the last few posts yet so if there is anything in them that is relevant to this I'll get to it later. Here are the results of an assessment I have made today of all the available images on eBay for the following six DC titles covering the first four uses of the 1-9 T&P stamp: Click to enlarge: @Albert Tatlock below are your suggested cover dates vs T&P stamp numbers - I have added the results of my six title review and they're not a million miles away: DC COVER DATE ALBERTS NUMBERS STEVES NUMBERS OCT 1959 7 NOV 1959 8 DEC 1959 9 JAN 1960 1 1 FEB 1960 2 1/2 MAR 1960 3 3 APR 1960 4 3/4 MAY 1960 5/6 6 JUNE 1960 7 7 JULY 1960 8 7 AUG 1960 9 8 SEPT 1960 1 9 This note interests me, from my table - a near 9 month cover date sequence for the 2-4th uses: Now I could go on all year adding every title - and I may well do - but three things are now very clear to me: For DC, the stamp numbering is definitely sequential with the most likely explanation being that the numbering tallies to sequential overseas deliveries The mix of each delivery - notwithstanding the odd outlier / late issue - generally comprises a mix of issues within 1 or 2 months of each others cover dates (which is entirely logical given the scale of the operation) Each use of the 1-9 stamps seems to fit a 9 month or thereabouts window, indicating monthly overseas deliveries - itself entirely logical given the predominantly monthly format of the publications being shipped There is only one thing that we do not yet know for sure. The exact months / dates that correlate with each 1-9 usage. We can make a very good reasoned guess in my opinion, using on sale dates, arrival dates, shipping times, peoples individual recollections etc, but that guess may be one or two months out. My other point that is yet to be proven beyond reasonable doubt - whether any publishers other than DC (e.g. Charlton) precede the known first numbered DC examples. All very good fun

Sorry to hear that Jaxson. Don't worry about this if you need to be elsewhere. The pictures you tried to post show as links which I can't open. Only if you can, try to save the images to your device and then select them using the drag or 'choose files' function in the edit screen: Hopefully that makes sense. Good luck

Indeed. I think we're already there Albert, thanks to your work. More examples for later years won't hurt though. It's something to do isn't it!

...which is why it may not settle down - maybe we wont get to a cover month v stamp uniformity position given the scale of the operation Albert. A couple of months either way would seem more likely but we'll see. It will take some time to work through 1960 and beyond - I started this thread to focus on the 1959 starting point so haven't gathered much beyond the middle of 1960. See you in a while I suppose!

The more examples I add, the more the cover dates against each number widen. The #9 stamp has increased to take in examples covering October 1959 through to January 1960: I think the sequential pattern is holding, with the stamp numbers still almost certainly correlating with sequential arrival dates, but the mix of each delivery crosses 4 months as it gets going. Again, not really a surprise perhaps when you consider all the elements of the end to end process behind it but I don't think we can really say that any given stamp number will correlate directly with a single month cover date...

I'll be back later Jaxson, if you post. Good luck...

It's quite enthralling isn't it, trying to work out a pattern that stands up to scrutiny. I've got to go now though - Strictly's on

Jaxson is online now, reading this thread. Jaxson - can you post a picture of your book? We'd love to see it

I've created a table with your dates Albert and only showing the DC examples I have in my files: Assuming I've transposed correctly: The magazines only #6 doesn't work as I have two books populated there - Pat Boone #2 (of which I have 3 examples now) and GI Combat #78. I'm wondering if the GI is a rogue? No #7 examples at all yet The #8's work OK - of the five books with an 8 stamp, one is November, 2 are Nov/Dec and 2 are one month later Decembers Similar pattern with the #9's - a mix of November and December cover dates, but two Octobers as earlier noted The second use #1 is starting to look a bit off - none of them are January cover dates - a mix of Nov/Decs so far I haven't populated beyond that yet. What do you think? A one or two month variance seems reasonable especially seeing as we don't know how long the US to UK shipping time was other than the anecdotal 3 months. The sticking point of course is the Charltons which don't fit the picture at all when added. Could the Charltons have come over from the second #2 in 1960 do you think? They would be massively in arrears cover date-wise so to speak of course. But then their numbering suggests a sequence - surely if they were over a year old they would come over together, not staggered, which brings us back to them arriving from the 1959 #2 point. Hmmm.

I always thought that Romita's inks over pretty much anyone else's art made the art look like Romita's. Especially those that drew in a similar life-like Romitary way. Andru's Spidey eyes were unique though and an instant give away - this one is pure Romita.

Yep. I think we're on the same page sequence-wise Albert - there may be more to discuss about which are the likely months sitting above the first 1-9 wave though. It may not be something we can prove definitively of course, but we can make a good fist of estimating it I think based on all the circumstantial evidence and peoples individual recollections. Let's use this table as the starting point for now maybe - the examples are factual, as are the stamp numbers. The unknown is the calendar months that sit above them - stamp 2 may be June 59 or it may need shunting forward. Let's see what happens - I'll keep gathering more examples - the more the better, to prove any patterns.

Can you check that Albert - every DC I have in the files has been added to my table below. I only have one October book: Batman #127 (Cover Date October 1959) - a 9 And two bi-monthlies which cross October: Flash #109 (Indicia Date October / November 1959) - a 9 Pat Boone #1 (Indicia September / October) - a 6

Hmm, not too far from me... Yes, it's on the table. You'd expect a reasonable variance in same publisher cover dates within the stamp numbers I would imagine given the amount of newsagents and stages involved.

I've seen 2 Batman #127's so far and both are '9's. Now, come on Albert, what do you think of my two timelines - do you think the Charlton's could be the first books to come over, ahead of the DCs?

Look at my two posts preceding this Albert - the Charlton then the DC

OK, this is interesting. One of the first DC T&P stamped copies I have in the files is Batman #127. Indeed, it is one of the books in the CBPGUK's 'first distribution' books: So, Batman #127: Cover dated October 1959 US arrival stamp example of 25th August US 'On-sale' date from Mike's Comic Newsstand also 25th August 1959 The end to end process speculation this time is: The comic is printed in early August 1959 It is shipped to the US newsagents by the 25th of August (backed up by the example arrival date) US newsagent keeps it on the shelf until the next issue lands - that is issue #128 which has an 'on-sale' date of the 13th of October 1959 US newsagent initiates the unsold return of #127 in mid-October 1959 when he receives #128 The central returns point prepares the unsold receipts for onward shipping to the UK around the end of October 1959 3 month shipping window to the UK (based on anecdotal evidence) Shipment arrives in the UK in January 1960 T&P stamp up and distribute to the UK newsagents The books goes on sale in the UK in January 1960 Now all the examples I have seen of Batman #127 are stamped with a '9'. So, if the first time a 9 stamp was used was January 1960, if we work back, assuming a monthly cycle in line with normal comic cover dates: January 1960 - first ever 9 stamp - Batman #127 (DC) December 1959 - first ever 8 stamp November 1959 - first ever 7 stamp October 1959 - first ever 6 stamp September 1959 - first ever 5 stamp August 1959 - first ever 4 stamp July 1959 - first ever 3 stamp June 1959 - first ever 2 stamp - War at Sea #29 (Charlton) May 1959 - first ever 1 stamp The June 1959 '2' actually works out with my previous exercise for War at Sea #29 a few posts up. Could this table below therefore be the arrival sequence for our first official T&P stamped US comics in the UK? Everyone was so focussed on Marvel and DC (as usual) that no one noticed or cared that Charlton got in there first? What do you guys think?

Nice one Cool, looking forward to the results Gary. My work finished early so i did the DC one - I think I'm onto something. Next post a comin....

Here's a bit of speculation before I disappear for the day. War at Sea #29: Cover dated February 1959 US arrival stamp example of 13th November US 'On-sale' date from Mike's Comic Newsstand of approx 1st December 1958 Here's a guess as to the end to end process: The comic is printed in early November It is shipped to the US newsagents in mid-November (backed up by the example arrival date) US newsagent keeps it on the shelf until the next issue lands - that is issue #30 which has an approx 'on-sale' date of the 1st of March 1959 (Charltons were bi-monthly as a rule but this one has a 3 month gap) US newsagent initiates the unsold return of #29 in early March 1959 when he receives #30 The central returns point prepares the unsold receipts for onward shipping to the UK around the end of March 1959 3 month shipping window to the UK (based on anecdotal evidence) Shipment arrives in the UK end June / early July T&P stamp up and distribute to the UK newsagents The books goes on sale in the UK in end June / early July 1959 July 1959 is the time that T&P could legally distribute. The cover stamp on all 3 examples that I have of that book is a '2'. We only need one publication to precede it and that makes our #2 stamped February Charltons the second ever use of the T&P 9d price stamp. What do you think? I'll try a similar plotting exercise for one of the first DCs to see if it matches, probably tomorrow.

Thanks Gary - mid 1959 is referenced here and there around the web: Most references I have seen indicate the mid to latter half of 1959 as being the legal starting point for US comics to be imported - in T&P's case, this is backed up by the physical evidence of the comics and magazines we've gathered and stamp 'number plotted' so far (notwithstanding some of the cover date misalignments which may be the result of different returns processes by publisher, bi-monthly cycles or stockpiling). @Albert Tatlock - what did you mean by the 'Colindale' comment earlier on - I think it was linked to the text I couldn't read?