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MasterChief

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Everything posted by MasterChief

  1. Here's a recent pick-up. Always loved this Frazetta cover... and I finally have one for myself. It's a beauty, ain't she? Special thanks goes out CollectorsAssemble for sending it my way. Great service, great product! I think I'll have that cigar now...
  2. By way of comparison, here’s a copy that sold for $34,500 on May 18, 2005. All-American Comics #16 (5.5)
  3. Question: Are you sure this is a subscription copy? (Not sure subscriptions were available to DC comics in 1940) If the answer is yes, then a follow-up question: Is it a subscription crease or a subscription fold? According to Overstreet there is a distinction -- one breaks color the other does not. In my opinion, the technical grade can go up or down dependent upon the classification (crease or fold).
  4. Very nice, Steve. If you’re looking to get the page fanning fixed, I know someone who can make that right for you. BTW...anyone wanna wager that some Chicago’s have lost their pedigree designation?
  5. Vince, just read your bio. What a hoot! BTW...would the phrase ‘sucker bet’ be appropriate in this situation?
  6. It’s a little early in the morning for me, so I would appreciate if someone could clarify the wager here. Is it: The Chicago copy of Sub-Mariner #3 has been cleaned & pressed. Or There is no evidence of books from the Chicago Pedigree as having undergone any form of treatment procedures to improve their original grade.
  7. OG, appreciate the feedback! Sckao: Actually, I didn't overlook the angle of famous collection. Thinking the post was extremely too long winded, I chopped the draft augment from the final version. In a nutshell, you are right! Stan Lee is, and will always be, regarded as the single most influential individual associated with the American Comic book. His collection should receive notation. Special notation like that of Pedigree or File Copy? Well, I think you know my answer to that. If anything must be afforded, I submit it is what it is – a Collection. A collection like that of Nicholas Cage, Don and Maggie Thompson, Dallas Stephens ... And the designation should have been placed in the center of the CGC label. Exactly were all the other collections have been placed. Regards!
  8. My apologies to you and the members if my remarks seem silly. I honestly do not intend them to be. Nor am I implying any grandiose conspiracy theory or covert cover-up by the parties involved in bringing Stan's books to market. And I appreciate your suggestion of conducting more research, John. But the more I do, the more questions I have. As stated earlier, I am not questioning weather Stan had the books. No doubt there, and it would be foolish to say so otherwise. Rather I am calling into question the designated "label" which was applied to them. A label which affords a status. A status, which when applied at the highest level, creates a fever in the market. A fever that, more often than not, ultimately realizes unheard-of prices at many multiples of guide. For me, the layman, label designations can be pretty tricky to nail down when it comes to the application thereof during certification. That said, one would assume there must be some short of definition, guideline, specification, checklist, measure, or assurance process in place and effectively employed prior to grading and encapsulation. Not being privy to assumed processes, one can only research and reference public resource material like official statements, press releases, new articles and trade publications in an effort to ascertain the substance of evaluation. As mentioned in a previous post and supported with cited reference, the SLFC was designated as a pedigree [1]. Additionally, the placement of the pedigree designation is consistent with other recognizable pedigrees, that being, the upper right-hand quadrant of the CGC label. Given that, a study may be conducted to evaluate if in fact the SLFC fits the parameters of a pedigree, and the evaluation criteria used are those found in the aforementioned public resources. Let's start with the definition of Pedigree found in a recognizable industry standard – the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide (Thirty-Fifth Edition): "PEDIGREE – A book from a famous and usually high grade collection - e.g. Allentown, Lamont Larson, Edgar Church/Mile High, Denver, San Francisco, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc. Beware of non-pedigree collections being promoted as pedigree books; only outstanding high grade collections similar to those qualify." Be that as it may, maybe it would be helpful if there was more substance to the term "high grade". Something that may provide a greater detail of meaning helping to clarify individual understanding and cement the concept of quality. From Gemstone Publishing: "There are a group of special books, known as pedigrees, that have high cover gloss, brilliant cover inks and white, fresh, supple pages that place them far above other books that might receive the same technical grade. Books from these pedigree collections actually transcend their technical grade." "They are the most sought after and generally the most well-documented, making it easier to ascertain identity or provenance. Books from these collections all exhibit the extra qualities mentioned above." "This striking difference becomes apparent when comparing two comic books of the same grade, one pedigree and one generic. In most cases, the pedigree book will far outshine the generic one. This is the reason why copies from the Mile High, San Francisco and Gaines File collections bring multiples of Guide. Many also agree that a book from one of these collections could very well be one of, if not the, best surviving copies." [2] To many a hobby expert, dealer and individualist collector the absolute number one criteria in designating a collection as a pedigree is the discernable fact of a compilation of books in distinct, high-grade, and well preserved condition. Would anyone argue the contrary? The Overstreet definition coupled with the added Gemstone clarity disqualifies Stan's books from receiving the status of pedigree. It is a matter of public record that an overwhelming majority of those in question were not consistent with being "high grade". In fact, a summative assessment of SLFC Silver Age books reveals the collection to be anything BUT high grade, as the median grade was found to be Fine (6.0) condition, with the highpoint being one book in 9.2 condition (Fantastic Four #68) and the low point being two books in 1.5 condition (Fantastic Four #48, Strange Tales #101) [3]. Further exploring, and in an effort to understand just how CGC might apply the definition during the certification phase, a closer look at their criteria used in pedigree designation may prove helpful: "CGC designates as a Pedigree collection any comic book collection that can be authenticated as having had a single owner prior to coming onto the back issue market." [1] The independent, third-party experts have refined the definition with the enhancement of additional criteria. That being, the "original owner" checkpoint. In my view, however, this criteria is concentric to an earlier argument for which doubt concerning SLFC could be raised. Just how is this checkpoint validated beyond a reasonable doubt? In referencing Stan's personal comments regarding his books [4], the Rolling Stone article which paints an altogether different picture concerning the disposition of any personal collection which may have contained early Silver Age books, and his admittedly and well documented bad memory [5] should, in and of themselves, raise sufficient uncertainty and prove problematic when using this measure during validation. Although the weaker of the two arguments being raised, the question cannot be ignored. Maybe SLFC was not really designated as a pedigree, as some suggest, but rather just a File Copy (FC) collection. Before arguing weather Stan's book are, or are not, a properly designated FC, it may prove advantageous to look at two well-known FC compilations: 1. Gaines File Copy. An extremely high grade collection of EC comic books personally set aside and stored in the personal files of EC publisher William Gaines. Designated as a File Copy Pedigree [6], these copies are some of the best, if not the best, surviving high-grade specimens in existence [7]. 2. Dave Sim File Copy. "By the time I started Cerebus, the story of Bill Gaines putting away twelve copies of each EC comic, fresh from the printer was pretty widespread in the collectibles market". "I had no idea if it was an urban legend or not. I had heard that he put twenty of each away, so that’s what I did." [1] Wondering if those two FC examples exhibit certain characteristic ingredients that are consistent with any recognized industry evaluation instrument, I consulted The Official Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide (2nd Edition) for assistance: "FILE COPY – A high grade comic originating from the publisher's file; contrary to what some might believe, not all copies are in Gem Mint condition. An arrival date on the cover of a comic does not indicate that it is a file copy, though a copyright date may." Indeed! Both FC examples register an exactness to the standardized definition. It is undeniable, they fit the bill precisely. Given the composition ingredients of "high-grade condition" and that both collections belonged to publishers, being from their "file", one can quickly ascertain certain indelible characteristics prior to assigning FC designation. It is that straightforward. There is, however, another visible characteristic which is recognizable to the common eye once graded FC books have finished encapsulation. That being, the location of the FC designation in the upper right-hand quadrant of the CGC label. As mentioned earlier, this location is consistence with that of the pedigree location. So it would seem that FC collections are dually recognized as designated pedigrees, and if truth be told, they most certainty are [1,2,6]. In examining the Lee collection, it makes absolutely no sense in rearguing the high-grade evaluation criteria required for FC designation. I firmly believe the summative assessment referred to earlier has unequivocally made the case, the collection does not warrant the designation based on the high-grade condition requirement. There is, however, an additional minor argument I would like to propose. One that may be splitting hairs and a little anal retentive for some. However that may be, I will leave it to the board members to discuss the merit thereof, that being: Stan Lee was not the publisher of Marvel Comic's during the Silver Age portion of the SLFC collection – Martin Goodman was [8] . Finally, I sincerely hope that corners were not cut and the certification process haphazardly handled while playing fast-and-loose with recognized industry definitions and evaluation criteria prior to the designation of SLFC. Furthermore, I would like to believe in nothing more than an integral certification process when determining label designation, a study which must be firmly rooted in good order and discipline and resilient to compromise while ensuring commitment toward protecting the lofty and coveted status of pedigree/file copy. However that may be, I have my reasonable doubts. Epilogue Heritage Comics Auctions brought the Stan Lee File Copy collection to market in July of 2002, on the heels and exactly two months after the much anticipated premier of Spider-Man the Movie which to this day maintains the highest opening week-end gross [9]. The auction, which included comics and original art, was a record-breaking success with sales in excess of five-million dollars, and an 83% sell-through. The Lee books brought anywhere from 2 to 25 times pre-auction estimates [10]. Hungry for public recognition and consumer acceptance and with a wonton desire to gain traction in a burgeoning marketplace, the two fledgling companies involved in certifying, grading, encapsulating, and bringing the SLFC collection to auction were, collectively, just three-years old. ********************** [1] CGC Article 177 [2] Gemstone Publishing Web Page - Grading [3] heritageauctions.com/common/auction/pricesrealized search input = stan lee file copy silver age: superhero [4] Heritage Auctions Press Release 212 [5] Stan Lee and Roy Thomas Interview [6] CGC Article 44 [7] Heritage Auctions Press Release 152 [8] Martin Goodman bio [9] All Time Weekend Gross [10] Scoop Article
  9. Interesting. I would like to believe that as well. But belief, based on personal feelings, and fact, based on documented research, are two different things. Case in point. When Stan's personal collection was brought to market, a collection which included comic books and artwork, of which an original Charles Schultz oil painting was part thereof. The painting was promoted by Heritage as the only known oil work by Schultz. Which, as one can imagine, created quite the collectable interest. The painting, however, was pulled from the October 2002 auction after a last minute allegation from the Charles Shultz estate insisting that the painting was not authentic. Fast forward April 2004. Heritage re-offers the controversial piece at auction only after being fully satisfied as to the works' authenticity. Documented provenance based on investigative research which, among other things, included a photo of the painting at the original 1965 auction where Stan won the item. Was this particular item rushed to auction based on consigner's reputation and marketable publicity. Is there a fiduciary and ethical responsibility in proving authenticity when auctioning items, or for that matter, certifying a comic book pedigree. Where the comic books certified and labeled 'Stan Lee File Copy' based on the word of Heritage vis-a-vis Stan Lee. Are controls and measures in place to validate claims regarding provenance. Legitimate questions all...because when you get right down to it, and I'm sure all will agree, there is a distinct difference in the market value of an item that is or is not authentic. In the end, it all worked out for the Shultz piece. The question was eliminated. A potential material impact avoided had the original auction gone forward. As far as Stan's personal comic book collection goes; a collection that contained every major key number one from the Marvel Silver Age; a collection that was advertised as being, by Stan's own admission, "the only copies of these key books that I've saved"; a collection which received the coveted pedigree status, and a collection, in my view, that is now in question by a 30-year old revelation. For those who are interested in such things, I am providing a link to the September 1971 Rolling Stone article which references the aforementioned ruined comic book collection. The article was penned by former Marvel staffer, Robin Green. Who, by the way, was the replacement for Flo Steinberg, Stan Lee's Silver Age secretary. Ms. Green is currently the executive producer of The Sopranos. Rolling Stone Vol. 1, #91 (Sep 16, 1971)
  10. Perhaps. But on the other hand, by the late 1960's, Stan was in the Marvel offices one maybe two times a week for the purpose of editorial management, not writing. He did the later at home -- where one might imagine "research material" would be of most benefit. Here's an interesting quote by Stan regarding his personal comics, aka the Stan Lee file copies. "These comics are my personal copies, the ones I've read and referred to over the years," said Stan Lee. "They may not be in mint condition but I love each one because they represent the highlights of my career to me and I've enjoyed thumbing through them time and again. In fact, they're the only copies of these key books that I've saved and treasured. I've been waiting for just the right opportunity to release these colorful old friends of mine to collectors all over the world, and Heritage is absolutely the right company to do that for me." Link: http://comics.heritageauctions.com/common/info/press/default.php?ReleaseID=219
  11. 1. Perhaps this is old news and has since been corrected: http://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=177 "CGC designates as a Pedigree collection any comic book collection that can be authenticated as having had a single owner prior to coming onto the back issue market. Examples of other Pedigree collections include The Mile High (also known as the Edgar Church) Collection from the 1970’s, The William Gaines File Copies of E.C. Comics, and the Stan Lee File copies of early Marvel Comics." 2. I agree!
  12. If in fact Stan's personal copies were destroyed as reported, how could the books billed as "file copies" be certified as a pedigree. Not disputing whether or not Stan had the comics. Maybe the question is: Were those certified books originally owned by Stan Lee. "At Wizard World's 2002 comics and popular media convention July 4-6 in Chicago, Heritage Comics Auctions (HCA) rang up a record-breaking $5,027,553 in sales (including 15% buyer's premium) with an 83% sell-through rate. The sale received international attention due to a consignment from Stan Lee, creator of Spider-Man. Lee consigned his personal file copies of key Marvel comics, including Fantastic Four #1, Amazing Spider-Man #1, Daredevil #1, X-Men #1 and others. He had kept these copies over the years for reference and felt that the time was right to release them to his fans."
  13. Does not an inquiring mind wonder how something might exist if it was citied as being destroyed 30 years before its creation? From the article: "Stan has been editor of Marvel Comics since he was 17 and Marvel was called Timely, over 30 years ago. He used to have a collection of all the comics he had ever put out, a collection that would be worth quite a lot of money now. He had it stashed in the cellar of the house he used to have in Hewlitt, Long Island. But one day he went down to look through some old issues and found that the whole collection was ruined. It had gotten wet from a leak through the walls, and the books were all mildewed, and crumbled in his hands at the touch."
  14. I was conducting some research recently when I stumbled across a Rolling Stone article from 1971 which mentioned Stan Lee's personal collection. I immediately thought of the "File Copies". However, as I continued to read, I found it quite odd that the piece mentioned how Stan's whole collection was ruined as a result of a water leak in his basement.